Failure

Hell no, I'll be using $6/corner Honda OEM bumpstops. How rich do you think I am?

I never said that.

I can't see how the twisting force of the spring could be transferred to the rod or piston. The top mount is firmly attached to the chassis and the body is firmly attached to the A-arm.

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

Maybe so, but you DID quite clearly say to do one instead of the other.

My viewpoint is: Why not both?

Failure

Because you're entering a price point above poverty tier and now you have real competition, not Koni, V-Maxx, and Raceland.

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

Let me know when Xidas end up under $1200.


Also let me know when the fun things don't improve a sub-$400 stock valved Bilstein setup. It's pretty plain just from the beginning of the thread that there's a few different tiers of poverty. We'll call the revalved poverty setup "Hood Rich" if you'd like.

Failure

Let me know when it's possible to save up for a couple of months. Xidas don't have to be cheaper, they just have to be a better value at a price that's not so high that it's an unreasonable stretch from what's being discussed. Apparently they're held in such high regard here that the response to "HAI GUISE I HAVE $800 SHUD I BUY VMAXXXXXXES OR ILLUMINAS" is always "Save up and buy Xidas." Hell, I got wrecked in the other thread just for suggesting that revalved Bilsteins could be 90% of what Xidas are in terms of damping, not even factoring in Xidas' construction and adjustability advantages.

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

Jesus you're worse than Leafy.

Everyone who buys a car can afford Xidas, eventually.

You've completely missed the context of the "Shut your ******* face and buy Xidas" posts.

Myself? I get a boner from using old **** that nobody wants anymore and going fast on it. Seriously. This thread gave me a hole in my jeans.

Failure

Now this I can get behind. I love me some LeMons engineering.

bahurd

iTrader: (8)

Somewhat relevant...

I'm finishing up my 'ghetto' coilovers basically following along with the thread.

I know the MSM shock bodies are a bit longer (3/8" in the front) and somewhere I seem to remember a longer stroke but for the life of me can't find anything relevant anymore.

So my questions, given that I have a NB (2000); Is there any benefit to using extended top hats, a. in the back, b. all four and if so what length (I know they don't affect ride height)?

I have an older set of FCM bump stops (OK, not quite so much ghetto) so if running extended top hats would you run same length pushed up into the top hats or shim them back down to normal position relative to the spring seat?

Thanks.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

So we do have a lot of shock options for this.
Hard-S -140/shock
Sport- 90/shock
MSM- 140/shock
Aftermarket HD- 102/shock
Aftermarket sport 102/shock

So the MSM should be the longest right? Are the stock sports and the aftermarket HDs the same? Are the HD and amSport the same besides body length? Looking at pretty graphs.

Aftermarket Sport/HD vs NA HD (according to the post by shaik that I stole this from aftermarket HD have the same valving as the am Sports but the sports have a 1" shorter rod)


Here's the best msm one I can find.


Hard-S vs aftermarket


I cant find anything for the normal stock sport ones, unless the sport ones mazda shows on their site are just aftermarket sports and I have the dumb. Also havent found hard-s front.

EDIT: Found sports, they they cyan color on this stupid unit graph.

bahurd

iTrader: (8)

^^ Leafy

Not sure who/what you're replying to but assuming it's about my post re top hats....

FCM chart showing shock body lengths;

Front: http://fatcatmotorsports.com/igaller...ck_lengths.JPG

Rear: http://fatcatmotorsports.com/igaller...ck_lengths.JPG

So, this is what I took my reference from. On an NB, the rear is the same but the front is 3/8" longer (MSM vs OE).

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

Not really as concerned with length, I'm more concerned about which valving is the best. I really want to see sport package shocks and front Hard-S shocks. Its looking like the Hard-S are the best for the rears, followed by the normal NB HD.

I just found a graph with NB sport package shocks, doing some quick conversion math then realizing the graph has rebound on top it looks like NB sport package shocks have the same valving as NB HDs.

Seefo

iTrader: (5)

Bilstein sports and HDs are not the same body length. Sports & MSM shocks are pretty close. there is a thread with a excel graph listing all the common shocks (not limited to bilsteins). It would be nice if people meausred their Bilsteins to confirm these numbers as I think they are old.

my ordering (longest to shortest):
1) MSM/NB Sports
2) HDs
3) NA Hard S

I don't know where you are getting Aftermarket Sports vs. sports. I don't think there is any other option than the aftermarket?

I just sold my Bilstein setup, very similar to stuff here. glad you guys made a guide on this, it took me months to collect all the needed info and even then its not half as "nice" as the setups I am seeing in this thread!

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

Aftermarket Sport vs Sport suspension package (non Hard-S). Look like the same damping.

Seefo

iTrader: (5)

I think...
sport suspension is still showas. the only difference between base suspension and sport suspension (not the Hard-S) was the wheel & tire size.

bahurd

iTrader: (8)

So this is relevant to my question about top hats on an NB how? Trying to follow the logic.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

It isnt at all this is a general thread about budget coilovers using bilstein shocks and I never quoted or referred to your question, so eat a dick.

Track, the shocks listed as "normal susp" have a different part number than the shocks listed as "sport susp", but cost the same. So maybe they're both showas with different valving?

bahurd

iTrader: (8)

Touchy today? Easier to say "no relevance" but WTF ...

Seefo

iTrader: (5)

very interesting...Now this I would like to know more about...

mazdaspeed dev has a number of shocks available...but only two mention normal/sport suspension for the 99:
34-700 NC10-34-700C DAMPER, FRT $81.44
(NOR. SUSP>W/O A. LOCK BRAKE) (SPORT SUSP>W/O A. LOCK BRAKE)

34-700 NC14-34-700C DAMPER, FRT $81.44
(NOR. SUSP>W/A. LOCK BRAKE) (SPORT SUSP>W/A. LOCK BRAKE)

this indicates to me the same shock for both sport/normal, difference being ABS/no ABS (sensor wire bracket).

Also, interestingly they have two shocks for HARD S, but these are different in price and one was ended in 99. That's probably an update from Bilstein I would think.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

Interesting again. I was only looking at the rear shocks because that one is easier to click onto than the front shocks.

Failure

To bahurd:
Check out this thread: https://www.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=79066

You'll probably need deeper top hats with MSM shocks, but you'll have to measure your own car to see just how deep. Conventional knowledge seems to dictate that you want as much bump travel as you can get, with at least 1/3 of your shock's total stroke reserved as droop.

To Leafy:
Stock valving may not be a huge deal. I've been looking at this Shim Restackor program for a while, and it seems like it could be just what we need to make revalving a DIY thing. Total cost of a revalve should be like $20/corner as long as you stick with the stock piston.

Unfortunately I just can't bring myself to spend $75 on something with no guarantee that it's even relevant to my application. Perhaps some adventurous soul in this thread would like to pave the way for the rest of us?