The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread - Page 13 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 08-26-2014, 03:18 PM   #241
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Nb top hats. Out of fear of humiliation, which parts are you referring too? The top hats to the frame? Or the control arms? I did tighten the the top hats after. But not the control arms, is there some kind of voodoo magic that I'm missing?
General method is to keep the control arm bolts 'loose' until you set the car back on the wheels then tighten/torque them with weight on the suspension.
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:19 PM   #242
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Best to tighten everything while loaded.
Otherwise the ride height will be extra high.

You can use jack stands under the lower control arms to get everything weighted down.

I'm assuming it's the lower shock bolts that are most important, but you'll need someone else to weigh in with that.
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:27 PM   #243
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The hardened bushing circled in red...
You can use 2 body washers (look in the beginning of the thread).

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I'm assuming it's the lower shock bolts that are most important, but you'll need someone else to weigh in with that.
Control arm pivot bolts are what keeps the rubber bushings torqued.
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Old 09-03-2014, 07:38 PM   #244
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Okay, I have an issue with my bilstein set-up. I somehow managed to screw up and only ordered 1 450# front spring, and now Summit doesn't have them/can't get them anymore, they only have QA1 "High Travel" springs in that length, diameter, and rate.

So, I'm thinking of bumping up to 550# fronts. Will my stock na Billy HD's be horribly under-dampened for that much spring?

Thanks,

-Ben
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Old 09-03-2014, 07:51 PM   #245
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Hard S Bilsteins are not particularly great at 550 and they are able to handle considerably stronger springs than the NA HD shock valving. You may drop down to 400's if nothing else.
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Old 09-03-2014, 08:07 PM   #246
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That's what I may have to do because QA1 spring rates go from 400 to 550 now. And, to order hyperco or eibach is like twice the cost (150/pair.)

Looking at the FCM spreadsheet, 400/300 f/r doesn't look horrible overall. Thoughts?
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:34 PM   #247
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Awfully stiff in the back... better size down your rear sway with those rates.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:24 PM   #248
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The plan is to remove the stock rear sway and go up to a bigger front, then, as budget allows, revalve the hd's, jump to stiffer fronts, and then play with possibly a rear bar again.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:34 PM   #249
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What about 400f/250r? According to FCM's calculator, that gives almost identical front and rear bounce frequency (1.95f/1.94r,) and 2% more front bias on FRC.

Running 400f/300r gives a bigger discrepancy on front to rear bounce frequency (1.95f/2.13r,) and less front bias on FRC (2% less than stock.)

-Ben
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:19 PM   #250
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Decision made: 400f/300r for now. If I'm unhappy w/the bounce freq difference, I can always order the 250# rears for like $75.00.

Thanks for the input, I'll post results once I get them in the car.

-Ben
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Old 09-04-2014, 02:18 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoCounselor View Post
Okay, I have an issue with my bilstein set-up. I somehow managed to screw up and only ordered 1 450# front spring, and now Summit doesn't have them/can't get them anymore, they only have QA1 "High Travel" springs in that length, diameter, and rate.

So, I'm thinking of bumping up to 550# fronts. Will my stock na Billy HD's be horribly under-dampened for that much spring?

Thanks,

-Ben
I know you went ahead with 400s, but I thought I should chime in anyway.

I ran 550 on the street. Worked fine except in small,frequent undulations. 500 is probably a good bet.
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Old 09-04-2014, 03:36 PM   #252
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I know you went ahead with 400s, but I thought I should chime in anyway.

I ran 550 on the street. Worked fine except in small,frequent undulations. 500 is probably a good bet.
550 with na HD's? If so, how was the ride overall?

I'm going to run with the 400/300 for now, and if I'm not happy w/the rear being so relatively stiff to the front, I'll either be looking to up the fronts or lower the rears.

Oh, and good info for everyone on this thread: AFTER I ordered the 400's and got a shipping confirmation I got a call back from QA1 themselves. The "high travel" springs are replacements for the prior springs. They are made of a higher quality spring, but shouldn't have any affect on the ride height ability or spring rate at all. (Wish I'd known that BEFORE I ordered the 400# ones...)

-Ben
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:29 PM   #253
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I bought Summit brand springs. They are available in many rates in 2.5in by 7in.
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:45 AM   #254
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550 with na HD's? If so, how was the ride overall?

I'm going to run with the 400/300 for now, and if I'm not happy w/the rear being so relatively stiff to the front, I'll either be looking to up the fronts or lower the rears.

Oh, and good info for everyone on this thread: AFTER I ordered the 400's and got a shipping confirmation I got a call back from QA1 themselves. The "high travel" springs are replacements for the prior springs. They are made of a higher quality spring, but shouldn't have any affect on the ride height ability or spring rate at all. (Wish I'd known that BEFORE I ordered the 400# ones...)

-Ben
Its stiff and noisy as you would expect with a track-ish suspension. I didn't find it uncomfortable, but I definitely wouldn't recommend it for a 90% street driven car. If you do autocross/track events/mountain roads on a monthly or bi-monthly basis, its a nice setup.

btw, mine was on NB sports, but there is no difference in valving from my understanding. Only shock body length changed. the NA HDs have the advantage there, so its probably better on the NA bilsteins anyway.
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:08 AM   #255
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Its stiff and noisy as you would expect with a track-ish suspension. I didn't find it uncomfortable, but I definitely wouldn't recommend it for a 90% street driven car. If you do autocross/track events/mountain roads on a monthly or bi-monthly basis, its a nice setup.

btw, mine was on NB sports, but there is no difference in valving from my understanding. Only shock body length changed. the NA HDs have the advantage there, so its probably better on the NA bilsteins anyway.
Thanks for the info. I'm going to see how these rates work out with the stock valving, and it the f/r bounce frequency difference seems to be an issue, drop down to 250# rear initially, then go from there...

Side note: I have MAJOR unhappy noises from the upper front of the head, near the timing gears. Going to tear into it this morning, so keep your fingers crossed that it isn't something major...
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:20 PM   #256
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Allstar doesn’t offer anything shorter than 5” so you’ll need to cut the rear sleeves to length (be careful to cut the end OPPOSITE the circlip counterbore and be carefull you don’t cut much more than 1 to 1-1/4” or you won’t have anything supporting the upper part of the sleeve. I cut mine to 4" OAL on my chop saw but It would be nice if Allstar offered a 4” or 3” sleeve length to allow for extended top hat clearance. Getting 1” of clearance is fairly easy though if you cut to 3-3/4 OAL.

Quick question: If I'm not running extended top hats, do I need to cut the rear sleeves? They fit my na hd's and don't extend beyond the shock body itself.

Thanks,

-Ben
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:39 PM   #257
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No need to cut if they don't extend beyond the body.
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Old 09-05-2014, 05:54 PM   #258
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No need to cut if they don't extend beyond the body.
there is actually. If you don't, the springs rub on the sleeve. The sleeve is useless up there, but it will cause your springs to rust. only problem with cutting is the shock can be more noisy due to more play at the top (the all star sleeves have a widening at the top to prevent too much space between the shock and the sleeve. Why the **** they didn't make the whole thing that diameter is a mystery.)
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:26 PM   #259
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I have the opportunity to pick up a set of ground control sleeves and 375f/250b 6"/7" springs for cheap. I have already sourced a set of nb sports, and since I have an 01 I also have nb top hats. Should I be concern about coil bind issues in the rear etc? The goal is 12.5/12.75 ride height.
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Old 10-17-2014, 10:17 AM   #260
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Default Do I need bump stops?

So I just did this setup on my NB...

I'm running 6" 550lb springs in the front and 7" 350lb in the rear with brand new NB Bilstein Sports, Speedthane bump stops (cut to 36mm), and ebay sleeves identical to the ones in the original post.

Coming from 15 year old, factory springs and shocks (base), the car feels awesome. The best way I can describe it is that the car simply feels more stable. It's firm, but not harsh. My only complaint about the ride is that it feels a tad bit bouncy over really big, long bumps (think smooth railroad crossing).

The problem I'm having is that the eBay sleeves don't go as low as I want. I'm really not much lower than stock at this point, especially in the rear. After seeing the pic of the NB on page 4 and the post about the All Star sleeves, I wish I had sold my ebay sleeves and bought the All Stars, as they seem like the way to go. I guess that'll give me a reason to take it all back apart this winter...

My question for you guys is, do I really need the bump stops with 550lb springs and oem NB top hats? Would I need bump stops with ISC top hats? The fronts are pretty much riding on the bump stops at this point. I guess what I need to figure out is if my shocks will hit the top hats before my springs bottom out.

Oh and if your car is old and rusty and still on the factory shocks, and you want to replace them... you're gonna have a bad time. Unless you just really love using power tools


Sorry for the bad pic... And ignore the goofy **** on the walls... Call me Farva...
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