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Old 06-02-2015, 11:44 AM   #601
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I don't think the cup fits between the smaller ID of the spring. without the cup, the shaft would just slide up the top hat and not really compress.
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Old 06-02-2015, 12:03 PM   #602
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I don't think the cup fits between the smaller ID of the spring.
Ahh, thank you. Okay, that makes sense. I don't have my junkyard NB shock assemblies yet, so I haven't seen these parts.

I'm hoping that my used rubber bushings will be in good shape. If so, I'll re-use them, and I'll probably plan on turning the factory cup down to a smaller diameter so that it fits inside the spring. If either the bushings or the cut-down cups don't work out, I'll get the parts from the
ES 9.8105R kit ES 9.8105R kit
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Old 06-02-2015, 01:25 PM   #603
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Originally Posted by muOKO9LT View Post
Ahh, thank you. Okay, that makes sense. I don't have my junkyard NB shock assemblies yet, so I haven't seen these parts.

I'm hoping that my used rubber bushings will be in good shape. If so, I'll re-use them, and I'll probably plan on turning the factory cup down to a smaller diameter so that it fits inside the spring. If either the bushings or the cut-down cups don't work out, I'll get the parts from the ES 9.8105R kit.
full disclosure: the kit might not be useful. 2-3 big washers from lowes would work just fine too. Just make sure whatever you use is sturdy. You may find the kit at autozone btw for less than amazon, if you still want to go that route. I suspect 2-3 large washers per corner maybe the same price though.
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Old 06-02-2015, 02:29 PM   #604
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2-3 big washers from lowes would work just fine too.
OMG. First it was Home Depot, now Lowes... How am I supposed to make a decision with all of these choices? It's too much! Next you'll be telling me that Ace Hardware sells washers too!

Joking, of course. Thank you for holding my hand through this.
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Old 06-02-2015, 02:50 PM   #605
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Default The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread

Is anyone using Summit Racing springs? They're cheaper than other options, same quality?
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Old 06-02-2015, 04:49 PM   #606
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Is anyone using Summit Racing springs? They're cheaper than other options, same quality?
bargin bin pricing for bargin bin quality. I used the QA1s, as they had my spring rate (price wasn't that different at the time). There isn't a sure fire way to tell without measuring the spring rate over a large batch. I can't speak for the quality of coating either as most of the inside on mine wore away due to play after cutting the sleeves.

Their other stuff is decent enough for sure though. With that said, if someone was particularly determined you could figure out the actual rate of the spring using the motion ratio, displacement, and corner weight. It won't be THAT accurate due to some minor deflection in the bushings, though.

Lastly, there is a (google-able) DIY spring rate measuring tool.
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Old 06-02-2015, 05:13 PM   #607
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Even supposed quality coil springs like Hypercoils don't have consistent coating quality--on another car of mine I've never had a Hyperco spring that the coating didn't flake off.
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Old 06-02-2015, 06:04 PM   #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Adamovits View Post
Is anyone using Summit Racing springs? They're cheaper than other options, same quality?
Uh, yes? Several of us, as mentioned throughout the thread. Spring steel is spring steel, for the most part. They have a better finish than Racing Beat springs and are of good quality. I recommend them.
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Old 06-02-2015, 06:12 PM   #609
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Default The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread

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<br />Uh, yes?<br />
<br /><br />Sorry, missed that bit. Added to cart.
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Old 06-02-2015, 08:31 PM   #610
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The differences in spring rates between brands has more to do with differnet methods of measuring than one brand being junk. QA1's are OK unless you have a F1 car.
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Old 06-08-2015, 09:35 AM   #611
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Default Spring location in stock upper mounts

Are folks using OEM upper mounts finding that the 2-1/2" springs wander around in there?

I haven't gotten my NB shocks disassembled yet, but I was playing with the fit of the spring in my NA upper mounts. It did not inspire confidence.

I'm tempted to weld an inch or so of 2-1/4 exhaust pipe inside the NB upper mount. That size fits perfectly inside the ENS-9-6103G spring isolator, would positively locate the spring in the center of the upper mount.
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Old 06-08-2015, 12:22 PM   #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muOKO9LT View Post
Are folks using OEM upper mounts finding that the 2-1/2" springs wander around in there?

I haven't gotten my NB shocks disassembled yet, but I was playing with the fit of the spring in my NA upper mounts. It did not inspire confidence.

I'm tempted to weld an inch or so of 2-1/4 exhaust pipe inside the NB upper mount. That size fits perfectly inside the ENS-9-6103G spring isolator, would positively locate the spring in the center of the upper mount.
they definitely wander. you need something there to keep them in place unless you are fine with the springs rubbing on the sleeves.
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Old 06-08-2015, 12:35 PM   #613
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they definitely wander.
Thank you for confirming this. I'll be sticking a bit of tubing to the upper mount then. Yay, an opportunity to demonstrate incompetent welding!
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:42 AM   #614
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Here's the plan I previously announced for the rear suspension on my NA:
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Originally Posted by muOKO9LT View Post
Rear
  • Top Hat: NB OEM
  • Sleeve: Allstar 64162
  • Adjuster: Allstar 64180
  • Shock: Bilstein NB HD 24-065597
  • Spring: 7" x 2.5" 250
  • Bumpstop: Honda 51722-SR0-003 (long) trimmed to 50mm
  • Isolator: ENS-9-6103G
I screwed the shock setup together last night using the following parts:


From left to right, the smaller bits are:
  • A hardened ring with a beveled inside. It seats on the beveled transition of the shock shaft. Got it off my NA shock.
  • A washer which was integrated in/bonded to the OEM NA bump stop. These first two parts are in their original locations relative the shock shaft, and seem like a perfect OEM solution the the "home depot washer" problem.
  • OEM NB rubber bit for inside the upper shock mount.
  • OEM NB upper mount with a short length of 2-1/4 exhaust tubing welded inside. I cut it short enough that the OEM NB dust boot can be pinned against the rubber bit inside the upper mount without contacting the edge of the exhaust tubing. That was before I discovered the boot doesn't fit inside my 2.5" spring. Since I'm now going without dust boots, I wish the tubing was a bit longer.
  • The energy suspension spring isolator (already in the upper mount).
  • OEM NB upper rubber bit.
  • OEM NB upper washer thing.
  • Nylock nut that came with the Bilstein.

So far, the major surprises have been related to the ES poly bushing kit I'm installing at the same time. I torqued the various bushing bolts to the specifications I found here, and wow, are those arms hard to move! I assume they break in? It almost seems like the spacer tubes in the bushing kit are a fraction of a mm too short because the subframe is squeezed against the polyurethane, rather than against the steel spacer tube.

Is that normal? Edit: A little googling indicates that folks are sanding their Poly bushings to avoid this binding problem. Great.

Thanks for all the help so far!
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The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread-80-rear_shock_720dfd72ffd8df0f4bff77f322466669fc563e41.jpg  

Last edited by muOKO9LT; 06-16-2015 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 06-16-2015, 01:59 PM   #615
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need to grease the **** out of the poly bushings. then you need to do that every year, hence why there is a suggestion to install zerk fittings at the same time.
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Old 06-16-2015, 04:28 PM   #616
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Quote:
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need to grease the **** out of the poly bushings. then you need to do that every year, hence why there is a suggestion to install zerk fittings at the same time.
Grease zerks are installed. Everything is covered with grease. The bushings pivot on the steel inserts smoothly. The problem is entirely clamping of the bushings in the crossmember. The clamping load here should be taken entirely by the spacer, but it's not. Much of it is transferred to the face of the poly bushing.

Here's a picture of the problem I found online:



I'm thinking that one of three things is off:
  • The bushing shoulders are oversize. This seems unlikely for a molded part.
  • The spacer tube/sleeve is too short. I have the dimensions and can measure.
  • The tubular bit of the control arm is longer than most.

When I drilled for grease zerks, I didn't measure for the center of the arm very carefully because I found I had over 1mm of space between the two halves of the bushing. Is that normal, or should the poly bits be nearly in contact with one another?
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Old 06-22-2015, 05:25 PM   #617
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Must say, the 450/300 setup preformed quite well this weekend at Barber - and still comfortable on the interstate. I did have to replace the short 5" tubes with longer allstar ALL64149 tubes for the front (so i could get lower than 6" punch weld height), i also milled the ID another inch which set the top of the tube flush with the top of the strut body when testing on the snap ring. I have beilstein silvers in the front.
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Old 06-23-2015, 10:15 AM   #618
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I did have to replace the short 5" tubes with longer allstar ALL64149 tubes for the front (so i could get lower than 6" punch weld height), i also milled the ID another inch which set the top of the tube flush with the top of the strut body when testing on the snap ring.
Would you mind elaborating on what you did here? I'm struggling to understand how the longer tubes get you lower...

Also that milling... My 5" tubes only have two small areas with 2" ID that contact the shock body: One near the bottom of the tube (with square shoulder for resting on the snap ring), and one near the top of the tube (with beveled edge, not suitable for resting on the snap ring). The area which rests on the snap ring is only 3/8" or so deep. Not much material to remove there.

From post #217 in this thread:



Do the longer tubes have more material in this area?

How long are your springs?
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Old 06-23-2015, 10:19 AM   #619
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Not sure what kind of tubes you have but the all-star ones are the same diameter of the shock for most if the tube, and then are milled out at the end for the c-clip
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Old 06-23-2015, 10:43 AM   #620
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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Not sure what kind of tubes you have but the all-star ones are the same diameter of the shock for most if the tube, and then are milled out at the end for the c-clip
Nope...

He's talking about my pics in post #219 (The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread) which were bought from Summit here; http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all64162

Quite a bit of the middle section that is undercut/cleared as you can see in the pictures.

Maybe All-star sources from many mfg? What a shock...
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