Boss Frog "Frog Arms" anybody has?
06-12-2009, 07:55 PM
#22
Cpt. Slow
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I'd love to but I've never heard of my company doing anything like this before, and I doubt they'd go for it. Like I said you could knock down the price if they got rid of the lightening holes (if they're added after the burnt/lasered plate, if its all in the same operation, it wouldn't save any money), if they didn't powder coat them, if they didn't include hardware, and maybe even if they didn't drill them, but provided the necessary dimensions for us to drill them at home. With such a hidden piece, a can of spray paint and some old dirty bolts would be just as good as what they're selling.
All that being said, I'd rather go with the door bars before these.
Whoa, just noticed they're slotted. If they're milled out, these guys are selling these pretty cheap. If they're laser/burned out, it wouldn't save us any money.
All that being said, I'd rather go with the door bars before these.
Whoa, just noticed they're slotted. If they're milled out, these guys are selling these pretty cheap. If they're laser/burned out, it wouldn't save us any money.
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06-12-2009, 08:14 PM
#25
Cpt. Slow
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Technically nothing, but the triangle plate behind the bars is going to add A LOT of stiffness over just bars bolted between the mounting points. Most people haven't blown the kind of money we have on turbo systems and new diffs, so they don't mind spending a little more for something complete, pretty, and a little piece of mind that it'll definitely fit.
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06-12-2009, 08:22 PM
#26
Boost Pope
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I just did a very quick-n-dirty estimate on eMachineShop, using 24"x20" as the major outside dimension and putting only the mounting holes (not the lightening holes) into them. Assuming that the base plate is the same for the left & right sides, to make these out of 3/16" thick 4130 steel, and using laser cutting (the cheapest process available for this material) they'd cost $290 a pair for 10 pairs, $250 a pair for 25 pairs, $231 a pair for 50 pairs, and $210 a pair for 100 pairs.
And that's before you weld on the reinforcing pieces.
Seriously- unless you happen to own a CNC cutting or milling machine, $200 a pair for these is just staggeringly cheap.
And that's before you weld on the reinforcing pieces.
Seriously- unless you happen to own a CNC cutting or milling machine, $200 a pair for these is just staggeringly cheap.
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06-12-2009, 08:52 PM
#29
Technically nothing, but the triangle plate behind the bars is going to add A LOT of stiffness over just bars bolted between the mounting points. Most people haven't blown the kind of money we have on turbo systems and new diffs, so they don't mind spending a little more for something complete, pretty, and a little piece of mind that it'll definitely fit.
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06-12-2009, 11:13 PM
#32
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FWIW I will chime in that I am also very pleased with my door bars. The chassis is so much stiffer after installing them and the roll bar; It was immediately very apparent. Though they do make it a little harder to get in and out of the car, one gets used to it, and it is well worth the tradeoff IMO. Hard Dog M2 Double Diagonal, Hard Dog Door Bars.
It is good to know Sparco seats fit with door bars. I have stock seats in now but that may not last.
It seems to me that those plates would work primarily by stiffening up the shock/spring tower for the front suspension. Wouldn't a triangulated brace (tying together the two towers and the firewall) do much of the same thing?
It is good to know Sparco seats fit with door bars. I have stock seats in now but that may not last.
It seems to me that those plates would work primarily by stiffening up the shock/spring tower for the front suspension. Wouldn't a triangulated brace (tying together the two towers and the firewall) do much of the same thing?
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06-13-2009, 02:32 AM
#34
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Artie, Sorry I have poor short term memory so I don't recall 100% what seat he was talking about..
I know for a fact he said the Corbeau Forza seat, and there is a Sparco thats almost identical to the Forza which also fits..
I know for a fact he said the Corbeau Forza seat, and there is a Sparco thats almost identical to the Forza which also fits..
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06-17-2009, 09:27 AM
#37
I can't imaging those things would be nearly as effective as a triangulated strut tower brace for reducing the twist. And I'm talking about twist from the firewall forward- which isn't the big problem. That lies in the center of the car- which is why the door bars make such a big difference... like the hard top.
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06-17-2009, 12:52 PM
#38
Yeah. It's pretty amazing what a difference that flimsy piece of fiberglass called a hard top does for stiffening the car. Makes you realize that with the right triangulation it wouldn't take much to stiffen things up. The trouble is where. Gotta be safe and not impede entry/exit.
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06-17-2009, 12:54 PM
#39
From the Boss Frog site:
Why don’t you offer Bolt-in Door Bars?
We have looked at this feature carefully, and decided not to make these because;
1. They do not increase the lateral strength or stiffness of the chassis, so will do nothing to
improve the handling or feel of the car while adding extra weight.
2. They do not significantly improve the impact resistance against a side collision or rollover.
This is because the bar is rather long, and only anchored into thin body metal behind the
seat and at the floor after a 90-degree bend. These are not solid structural mounting points,
so a side force will simply bend the mounting plates and the bar will roll inward toward the
driver.
3. The door bar may potentially cause more injury than protection, because in a side impact,
the bar could easily be pushed directly into the driver’s hip.
We have looked at this feature carefully, and decided not to make these because;
1. They do not increase the lateral strength or stiffness of the chassis, so will do nothing to
improve the handling or feel of the car while adding extra weight.
2. They do not significantly improve the impact resistance against a side collision or rollover.
This is because the bar is rather long, and only anchored into thin body metal behind the
seat and at the floor after a 90-degree bend. These are not solid structural mounting points,
so a side force will simply bend the mounting plates and the bar will roll inward toward the
driver.
3. The door bar may potentially cause more injury than protection, because in a side impact,
the bar could easily be pushed directly into the driver’s hip.
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06-17-2009, 01:32 PM
#40
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#1 is just flat out incorrect. Clearly they stiffen the chassis, empirically and analytically.
#2 and #3 are arguable. A non-reclining style seat or a little padding would certainly take care of #3.
The door bars stiffened the chassis more than the hard top does. I have both. Others have reported they make more of a difference than adding frame rails.
#2 and #3 are arguable. A non-reclining style seat or a little padding would certainly take care of #3.
The door bars stiffened the chassis more than the hard top does. I have both. Others have reported they make more of a difference than adding frame rails.
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