Bushings!
#26
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,047
Total Cats: 12
Doesn't the "rubber" deflect too much? Sounds like it would work with solid mounts but not with poly...
Very nice! But I'll be totally spoiled, using the press my friend owns. :-)
Very nice! But I'll be totally spoiled, using the press my friend owns. :-)
#27
I don't have personal experience with the poly on a sander, but have been told that with a fixed (floor) belt sander, it did a fine job with the bushing seated against he stop and the face place directly at the belt. I would imagine that like the delrin you need to do the removal it small steps to avoid heat and removing too much.
Yes- a press is probably the ideal tool for the job.
Yes- a press is probably the ideal tool for the job.
#28
I've found that even having a press if your control arms are rusty or the bushings are old it can take A LOT of force to press out the bushings. It is MUCH safer in my opinion/experiance (one car with bushing install) to burn them out with propane torch. Wear a mask and do it outside obviously.. just heat up each bushing tube for 5 minutes or so (takes a bit of time) until the rubber at the edges starts fizzing/spitting and oozing out of the bushing tube. Then you can just tap them out with a hammer.
#29
Elite Member
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 1,784
Total Cats: 42
The fundamental flaw in a lot of bushing kits is the fact that the bushing is too wide for the sleeve, so tightening up the camber bolt actually compresses the bushing ends and causes bind. I've done three delrin bushing installs and on every set I had to trim the overall width of the bushing so that the subframe did not clamp down on the bushing, only the sleeve with the camber bolt was torqued.
#32
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,847
Total Cats: 27
+1 on the bushing swap being a lot of work. I am putting in a set now and I keep procrastinating on the bushings to do other things on the car first. I am heating them with a torch and tapping them out. It is a bit messy. I am also adding grease fittings so that takes a little more time.
The deal with the lower ride height IIRC is this... The bushing is bonded to the inner sleeve and essentially bonded to the outer tube in the control arm. The bolts force the inner sleeve so tight into the chassis mount that the sleeve does not rotate around the bolt. If it did, there would be wear on the bolt and/or sleeve since they are not lubricated. Because the inner sleeve is not rotating, and the outer part of the bushing is essentially bonded to the control arm, the bushing twists, like a torsion spring. That effectively adds a tad of spring rate.
That is why the car drops slightly with the poly bushings. No torsion action.
The deal with the lower ride height IIRC is this... The bushing is bonded to the inner sleeve and essentially bonded to the outer tube in the control arm. The bolts force the inner sleeve so tight into the chassis mount that the sleeve does not rotate around the bolt. If it did, there would be wear on the bolt and/or sleeve since they are not lubricated. Because the inner sleeve is not rotating, and the outer part of the bushing is essentially bonded to the control arm, the bushing twists, like a torsion spring. That effectively adds a tad of spring rate.
That is why the car drops slightly with the poly bushings. No torsion action.
#33
Jacob- that's the point of checking the tolerance on the poly bushing vs. the insert. The insert needs to be free of compression from the subframe at the camber bolt points- that requires the bushing to be narrower than the insert/sleeve.
ZX is right- that's binding at work right there. When running stock/vulcanized bushings in a race environment, you want to jack up the wheel until the suspension is compressed to a static state (as in static ride height) and THEN torque the camber bolts.
ZX is right- that's binding at work right there. When running stock/vulcanized bushings in a race environment, you want to jack up the wheel until the suspension is compressed to a static state (as in static ride height) and THEN torque the camber bolts.
#34
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,047
Total Cats: 12
WOW, I was swapping shocks, and noticed I basically lacked the strength to rotate the shock into place against the OEM rubber with just the bottom bolt in. I had no idea stock suspension bits binds that much.
Bushings come late this week, early next. Can't wait.
ZX - what's invovled in putting in fittings? Just drill/tap each sleeve and thread in a grease fitting? Are they all created equal?
Does anyone not have the grease fitting and wish they did?
Bushings come late this week, early next. Can't wait.
ZX - what's invovled in putting in fittings? Just drill/tap each sleeve and thread in a grease fitting? Are they all created equal?
Does anyone not have the grease fitting and wish they did?
#35
I did the energy suspension control arm kit too, rather large pain in the *** and quite messy with the torch. Burning them out is pretty harsh with all the splatter and fumes but found it to be the easiest way. They really just poop right out. Worth it in the end though, the car just feels fantastic.
#37
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,847
Total Cats: 27
Other than that, just get some grease fittings, drill a hole in the stock bushing sleeve somewhere in the middle (where the two bushing halves meet), tap the hole, clean out the shavings, screw in the grease fitting, done. I am just using fittings I bought at the auto parts store. I may go back and use loctite to make sure they do not back out.
#38
Elite Member
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 1,784
Total Cats: 42
So realistically, how big of a deal is bind? I'm not really too motivated to drop my control arms to sand down the edges unless its going to be a huge deal.
Laziness prevails unfortunately.
Laziness prevails unfortunately.