Manual or depower rack?
06-08-2009, 05:18 PM
#23
I was told by the shop that I bought it from that it was smaller, as in diameter I think, as well as lighter, and that he will ship the mounting brackets that was used on the car because the p/s rack ones will not work. Like I said this is all what I have heard, I will have some comparison pictures when I have both out.
I can't imagine that a manual rack would be the same size/weight as the powered one. So this made sense to me. We will see I guess.
I can't imagine that a manual rack would be the same size/weight as the powered one. So this made sense to me. We will see I guess.
Manual rack is 13# and the power rack is 17#. Not a lot of difference between the two with regard to weight. I just installed the new bushings on my manual rack, but have not driven it yet. It's still in surgery with a complete new drive train being installed.
KMag
Reply
0
0
06-14-2009, 08:08 PM
#25
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 5,360
Total Cats: 43
I'll throw in my
... Hear a lot of people crying about how the power racks are "over powered." I've auto-x'd the **** out of mine (Worn out stock suspension though..) and its perfectly fine to me.. Maybe there is a difference between good suspension and bad suspension with power / non-power racks??
Reply
0
0
06-14-2009, 09:45 PM
#27
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,847
Total Cats: 27
Yeah it is not so much being overpowered IMO; it is the lack of feel. In my experience, going from PS to a FM style depowered rack, feedback is really a lot better. If the PS setup transmitted the tire activity to the wheel as well then it would be as good, but it does not, so IMO it is not.
Reply
0
0
08-26-2010, 07:17 PM
#29
I'm Miserable!
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 489
Total Cats: -6
I've been driving without a PS belt for a week now and it's really not bad at ALL but I do work out every day...
I've sourced a manual rack and am pulling the trigger on it very soon. I bet the manual steering will feel like power-assisted compared to how it feels right now without a PS belt...
I've sourced a manual rack and am pulling the trigger on it very soon. I bet the manual steering will feel like power-assisted compared to how it feels right now without a PS belt...
Reply
0
0
08-27-2010, 11:55 AM
#32
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fairfield, California
Posts: 436
Total Cats: -7
I think most folks don't weld the pinion because it's much easier to drain the fluid and loop the lines, and if it's not done really well it can be a big problem.
If you decide to go with a welded shaft, have a good look at those posts about adjusting the yoke to rack pre-load. This is the adjustment that determines if your rack is crap, or a thing of beauty.
Here's a description from a thread on Miata.net:
I follow this procedure (using the metric equivalent torque) to get me close to where I want to be but I finish the adjustment by feel.
Within a few degrees of either side of where this procedure will get you you may find there's a noticeable change in steering resistance as felt at the pinion. I check resistance at the pinion by attaching a small vice grip to the pinion splines which I protect with a thick layer of paper towel. Whatever you do don't harm those splines or you'll have a hell of a hard time hooking the steering shaft up to the pinion.
Anyway, once you've followed the factory procedure you can gently swing the vice grip back and forth while slowly tightening (or loosening) the support yoke adjustment. I aim for the point where the turning resistance just begins that climb to becoming more difficult to turn. In other words, you want the yoke to give maximum support without it imparting significant friction. You may have to search for that point, but it's really pretty obvious once you've done it a couple of times. Once you're there, tighten the lock nut but be sure the yoke adjustment doesn't move (and tighten) with the lock nut or you'll have to redo the adjustment. You may have to hold the adjustment nut with a box wrench while cinching down the lock nut.
The net result (along with using P/S fluid in the rack cylinder) should be a really great feeling, quick, light, and essentially totally play-free steering rack. And yeah, it will be completely worth the time and trouble.
Here's the link from whence it came: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=335874
If you decide to go with a welded shaft, have a good look at those posts about adjusting the yoke to rack pre-load. This is the adjustment that determines if your rack is crap, or a thing of beauty.
Here's a description from a thread on Miata.net:
I follow this procedure (using the metric equivalent torque) to get me close to where I want to be but I finish the adjustment by feel.
Within a few degrees of either side of where this procedure will get you you may find there's a noticeable change in steering resistance as felt at the pinion. I check resistance at the pinion by attaching a small vice grip to the pinion splines which I protect with a thick layer of paper towel. Whatever you do don't harm those splines or you'll have a hell of a hard time hooking the steering shaft up to the pinion.
Anyway, once you've followed the factory procedure you can gently swing the vice grip back and forth while slowly tightening (or loosening) the support yoke adjustment. I aim for the point where the turning resistance just begins that climb to becoming more difficult to turn. In other words, you want the yoke to give maximum support without it imparting significant friction. You may have to search for that point, but it's really pretty obvious once you've done it a couple of times. Once you're there, tighten the lock nut but be sure the yoke adjustment doesn't move (and tighten) with the lock nut or you'll have to redo the adjustment. You may have to hold the adjustment nut with a box wrench while cinching down the lock nut.
The net result (along with using P/S fluid in the rack cylinder) should be a really great feeling, quick, light, and essentially totally play-free steering rack. And yeah, it will be completely worth the time and trouble.
Here's the link from whence it came: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=335874
Last edited by Thucydides; 08-27-2010 at 12:21 PM.
Reply
0
0
11-02-2010, 10:43 AM
#33
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 109
Total Cats: 16
Re-resurrecting a twice-dead thread.
If you want to see exactly how much slop you still have with an un-welded pinion shaft, there's a video in the middle of my Miatabusa steering rack depower story:
http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...ring-rack.aspx
I really can't imagine going to all the effort of an FM depower without spending the extra 20 minutes to weld up the input shaft.
-Dave
If you want to see exactly how much slop you still have with an un-welded pinion shaft, there's a video in the middle of my Miatabusa steering rack depower story:
http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...ring-rack.aspx
I really can't imagine going to all the effort of an FM depower without spending the extra 20 minutes to weld up the input shaft.
-Dave
Reply
0
0
11-02-2010, 04:57 PM
#35
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fairfield, California
Posts: 436
Total Cats: -7
Re-resurrecting a twice-dead thread.
If you want to see exactly how much slop you still have with an un-welded pinion shaft, there's a video in the middle of my Miatabusa steering rack depower story:
http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...ring-rack.aspx
I really can't imagine going to all the effort of an FM depower without spending the extra 20 minutes to weld up the input shaft.
-Dave
If you want to see exactly how much slop you still have with an un-welded pinion shaft, there's a video in the middle of my Miatabusa steering rack depower story:
http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...ring-rack.aspx
I really can't imagine going to all the effort of an FM depower without spending the extra 20 minutes to weld up the input shaft.
-Dave
Jim
Reply
0
0
11-02-2010, 09:50 PM
#37
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fairfield, California
Posts: 436
Total Cats: -7
The only seal I now remove is the rack piston seal. It's probably completely unnecessary, and a lot of added work, but I remove the piston as well.
The rest of the smaller seals are actually useful to keep some P/S fluid in for lubrication of the passenger side end of the rack, and to keep grease within, and dirt out of, the pinion body. The contribution of the little seals to friction is negligible, but the reduction in friction at the passenger end of the rack using P/S fluid rather than a thicker grease (like I used to do when I removed the seal there), is huge.
The rest of the smaller seals are actually useful to keep some P/S fluid in for lubrication of the passenger side end of the rack, and to keep grease within, and dirt out of, the pinion body. The contribution of the little seals to friction is negligible, but the reduction in friction at the passenger end of the rack using P/S fluid rather than a thicker grease (like I used to do when I removed the seal there), is huge.
Reply
0
0
01-13-2011, 11:05 AM
#40
Newb
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 42
Total Cats: 0
I just took the lines and pump off of mine. I can't even tell the difference. Maybe I'll plug the holes someday, but probably not. the steering on it is still lighter than my power-steering equipped ford pickup.
if you have trouble turning the wheel on reasonably sized tires there is something wrong with your car or something wrong with your arms.
if you have trouble turning the wheel on reasonably sized tires there is something wrong with your car or something wrong with your arms.
Reply
0
0
