Shock Tech, 101
#141
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If you want to at least mitigate the "loose spring" issue, you can find a way to ziptie the springs to the top mount so they have the shock body to guide them back to the bottom perches if they ever are rattling loose in there.
In practice, when I asked Ground Control about "loose springs", they said it wasn't really an issue.
In practice, when I asked Ground Control about "loose springs", they said it wasn't really an issue.
#143
That's a tender. Doesn't do anything to change wheel rate. Only job is to keep spring from rattling.
The Xida uses a 150 in/lb helper for example, which is about the same rate as the OEM front springs. It works to keep the tire planted at full extension where the much higher rate main springs runs out of stroke. Tender's are inexpensive, Helpers not so much.
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Last edited by emilio700; 11-12-2010 at 05:46 PM.
#145
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To clarify, there are two different types of flat wound secondary springs; Tender and Helper.
That's a tender. Doesn't do anything to change wheel rate. Only job is to keep spring from rattling.
The Xida uses a 150 in/lb helper for example, which is about the same rate as the OEM front springs. It works to keep the tire planted at full extension where the much higher rate main springs runs out of stroke. Tender's are inexpensive, Helpers not so much.
That's a tender. Doesn't do anything to change wheel rate. Only job is to keep spring from rattling.
The Xida uses a 150 in/lb helper for example, which is about the same rate as the OEM front springs. It works to keep the tire planted at full extension where the much higher rate main springs runs out of stroke. Tender's are inexpensive, Helpers not so much.
I've always understood:
helper = flat wire coil <10 lb/in to keep springs seated
tender = trapezoidal wire coil within normal rate range for creating your own dual / progressive rate suspension profile.
And from Eibach's website:
A Helper spring is used to prevent the Main spring from becoming loose in the spring seat when the wheel is at full droop. The Helper spring, unlike the Tender spring, has very little spring rate, and therefore has no effect on the suspension characteristics of the vehicle. Up to 50mm of spring-to-perch gap can be covered with the use of a Helper spring.
#149
Just different. One stack will be a progressive rate through part of it's stroke, the other will be linear rate all the way through. You decide what will work best for your application. The stack will actually have a step in the rate, softer at first then stepping to a higher rate when the short helper goes to block height.
Hyperco FAQ and formula to calculate different combinations.
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#153
And Emilio's enough of a gentlemen that he's welcomed Bernie to the forum and hasn't had the poor taste to hawk his wares on Bernie's thread. But luv fest aside, both of these fellows are experts in their field and it's great to have them spend their valuable and very limited time answering our questions. Thanks, fellows!
#155
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This thread is packed full of info and I've read every word of it.
Im ever so curious about the differences between the double and triple adjustable xidas. What kind of things can you adjust with the triples that the doubles can't.
Also, Berni or Emilio, have you thought about writing a book? lol
Im ever so curious about the differences between the double and triple adjustable xidas. What kind of things can you adjust with the triples that the doubles can't.
Also, Berni or Emilio, have you thought about writing a book? lol
#156
This thread is packed full of info and I've read every word of it.
Im ever so curious about the differences between the double and triple adjustable xidas. What kind of things can you adjust with the triples that the doubles can't.
Also, Berni or Emilio, have you thought about writing a book? lol
Im ever so curious about the differences between the double and triple adjustable xidas. What kind of things can you adjust with the triples that the doubles can't.
Also, Berni or Emilio, have you thought about writing a book? lol
#159
Cost wasn't a consideration in the case of the Xida-S. Adjusting both together is pretty standard for single adjustable monotubes. One can set up an SA monotube to adjust rebound only, with virtually no effect on compression. OTS Koni Sport/Race are like this I believe. The specific adjustment range and values of comp/rebound on the CS & S were my decision. The Tein Flex (twin tube) and MonoFlex (monotube) I had done a lot of experimenting with changed compression a bit with the rebound adjuster and I found it very useful when revalving. For the Xida's each click affects comp but we kept the bulk of the comp value and knee shape change towards the last few clicks near full stiff.
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Last edited by emilio700; 11-15-2010 at 01:09 AM.
#160
Let's break things down on compression and rebound to understand it a little better.
When you compress a spring, energy is being stored by the spring. When the spring extends, energy is being released.
The purpose of a shock is to absorb energy, and in return, control resonant frequencies.
The reason a shock needs less compression than rebound is because during compression you have energy going into the spring, and on rebound you have energy being released by the spring along, with the resonance.
A stiffer spring does not absorb more energy. Why? Because you are not transferring more weight. The weight of the car is the same no matter what spring is in the car. So, since you are not storing more energy, you store the same amount faster/shorter distance. On the other end, you are also releasing the energy faster with a stiffer spring. The reason for more rebound.
This is why when you go up on spring rate you also go up on rebound, and down on compression.
When you compress a spring, energy is being stored by the spring. When the spring extends, energy is being released.
The purpose of a shock is to absorb energy, and in return, control resonant frequencies.
The reason a shock needs less compression than rebound is because during compression you have energy going into the spring, and on rebound you have energy being released by the spring along, with the resonance.
A stiffer spring does not absorb more energy. Why? Because you are not transferring more weight. The weight of the car is the same no matter what spring is in the car. So, since you are not storing more energy, you store the same amount faster/shorter distance. On the other end, you are also releasing the energy faster with a stiffer spring. The reason for more rebound.
This is why when you go up on spring rate you also go up on rebound, and down on compression.