Track Handling on an OEM suspension
01-06-2014, 03:18 PM
#21
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Here are some dyno plots of the KYB and the Koni I found over at Miata.net. Is anyone versed in reading these plots and could advise on spring rates that would match well with them?
KYB GR2 (Excel-G)
Koni STR.T
KYB GR2 (Excel-G)
Koni STR.T
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01-06-2014, 05:05 PM
#25
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That was a crap plot of the Koni's, here's a better one of the rears that goes up to higher velocities (STR.T's have been referenced as being the same as Koni Sport's on Full soft). Still look low on matching spring rates?
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01-06-2014, 05:30 PM
#27
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I wouldn't test my luck with going with a KYB or Koni. The first gen Integra I raced got popped for Tokicos and a stock front sway bar. 110 crank horsepower of fury on Tokicos got 2 penalty laps.
With Chump you need to get it good enough. It's not going to be a Xida or anything, but you can potentially do some real damage with a self re-valved shock and eBay sleeves and springs. You might need to burn a few weekends shaking down the car and finding the right balance so that you don't take laps for non-stock sway bars.
With Chump you need to get it good enough. It's not going to be a Xida or anything, but you can potentially do some real damage with a self re-valved shock and eBay sleeves and springs. You might need to burn a few weekends shaking down the car and finding the right balance so that you don't take laps for non-stock sway bars.
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01-06-2014, 08:19 PM
#28
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Are spring rubbers allowed? They work. Keep both sways and work on the spring rate balance between front and rear.
Slamming into the bump stops will upset the car. I would almost say to leave them long and shorten the springs so that the transition happens early. If it works correctly, the stops will have room to compress somewhat gradually. I thought I read once that the factory stops start at around 350 lbs/in under compression and go up from there as they get squeezed. Remember that the factory designed the car to contact them under hard cornering.
Slamming into the bump stops will upset the car. I would almost say to leave them long and shorten the springs so that the transition happens early. If it works correctly, the stops will have room to compress somewhat gradually. I thought I read once that the factory stops start at around 350 lbs/in under compression and go up from there as they get squeezed. Remember that the factory designed the car to contact them under hard cornering.
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01-06-2014, 09:47 PM
#29
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Haha that would be something to work out! I don't think that would fly as a no cost mod since it's not necessarily to OEM spec, that is unless the Miata got into some radioactive goo at the plant in Japan-land and sprouted some extra sways bar arms : )
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01-06-2014, 09:49 PM
#30
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I wouldn't test my luck with going with a KYB or Koni. The first gen Integra I raced got popped for Tokicos and a stock front sway bar. 110 crank horsepower of fury on Tokicos got 2 penalty laps.
With Chump you need to get it good enough. It's not going to be a Xida or anything, but you can potentially do some real damage with a self re-valved shock and eBay sleeves and springs. You might need to burn a few weekends shaking down the car and finding the right balance so that you don't take laps for non-stock sway bars.
With Chump you need to get it good enough. It's not going to be a Xida or anything, but you can potentially do some real damage with a self re-valved shock and eBay sleeves and springs. You might need to burn a few weekends shaking down the car and finding the right balance so that you don't take laps for non-stock sway bars.
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01-06-2014, 09:51 PM
#31
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Are spring rubbers allowed? They work. Keep both sways and work on the spring rate balance between front and rear.
Slamming into the bump stops will upset the car. I would almost say to leave them long and shorten the springs so that the transition happens early. If it works correctly, the stops will have room to compress somewhat gradually. I thought I read once that the factory stops start at around 350 lbs/in under compression and go up from there as they get squeezed. Remember that the factory designed the car to contact them under hard cornering.
Slamming into the bump stops will upset the car. I would almost say to leave them long and shorten the springs so that the transition happens early. If it works correctly, the stops will have room to compress somewhat gradually. I thought I read once that the factory stops start at around 350 lbs/in under compression and go up from there as they get squeezed. Remember that the factory designed the car to contact them under hard cornering.
That's good thought on the stops, either shorten them and go soft or keep them lengthy and use them to effectively increase the spring rates. Regardless, an abrupt change in spring rate is never a nice feeling at threshold grip...
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01-09-2014, 09:43 PM
#34
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Neat rule.
When you cut a spring, you raise the rate by the percentage of the cut. Which is not very much.
What if you did something more radical, like cut the spring in half to double it's rate, but then spacer it to put the ride height back up where you want it. Use modified bumpstops to set the up travel and limit straps to set the down travel. That would give you a racier ride height and higher rates.
For shock damping, I've drilled a drain hole at the top of a shock and drained the fluid. Replaced it with heavier fluid from motorcycle shops. Then put a rubber patch over the hole and secure it with a hose clamp. This was mentioned earlier...but I've actually done this. Worked fine.
For a stiffer front sway bar could you get away with using two stock swaybars, stacked like spoons? I've done that before attaching a lower bar with a whole bunch of hose clamps. You cut the last couple inches off to clear the links.
Kinda sounds like fun.
When you cut a spring, you raise the rate by the percentage of the cut. Which is not very much.
What if you did something more radical, like cut the spring in half to double it's rate, but then spacer it to put the ride height back up where you want it. Use modified bumpstops to set the up travel and limit straps to set the down travel. That would give you a racier ride height and higher rates.
For shock damping, I've drilled a drain hole at the top of a shock and drained the fluid. Replaced it with heavier fluid from motorcycle shops. Then put a rubber patch over the hole and secure it with a hose clamp. This was mentioned earlier...but I've actually done this. Worked fine.
For a stiffer front sway bar could you get away with using two stock swaybars, stacked like spoons? I've done that before attaching a lower bar with a whole bunch of hose clamps. You cut the last couple inches off to clear the links.
Kinda sounds like fun.
Last edited by WAM; 01-09-2014 at 09:55 PM.
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01-09-2014, 09:47 PM
#35
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Instead of cutting the springs and adding a spacer, would placing solid materiel between the coils doing the same thing? Like an aluminium or hard wood? This would be less hassle and be non-permanent if you want to tune it a bit.
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01-09-2014, 09:51 PM
#36
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Yes, if you locked out half the coils. Spring rate is inversely proportional to the number of free coils.
But if they object to the spacers or blocks, you could also do it with half springs and just cut away the perch and weld it on higher. Pure mod, no extra parts.
But if they object to the spacers or blocks, you could also do it with half springs and just cut away the perch and weld it on higher. Pure mod, no extra parts.
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01-09-2014, 10:06 PM
#37
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01-09-2014, 10:12 PM
#38
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Neat rule.
When you cut a spring, you raise the rate by the percentage of the cut. Which is not very much.
What if you did something more radical, like cut the spring in half to double it's rate, but then spacer it to put the ride height back up where you want it. Use modified bumpstops to set the up travel and limit straps to set the down travel. That would give you a racier ride height and higher rates.
For shock damping, I've drilled a drain hole at the top of a shock and drained the fluid. Replaced it with heavier fluid from motorcycle shops. Then put a rubber patch over the hole and secure it with a hose clamp. This was mentioned earlier...but I've actually done this. Worked fine.
For a stiffer front sway bar could you get away with using two stock swaybars, stacked like spoons? I've done that before attaching a lower bar with a whole bunch of hose clamps. You cut the last couple inches off to clear the links.
Kinda sounds like fun.
When you cut a spring, you raise the rate by the percentage of the cut. Which is not very much.
What if you did something more radical, like cut the spring in half to double it's rate, but then spacer it to put the ride height back up where you want it. Use modified bumpstops to set the up travel and limit straps to set the down travel. That would give you a racier ride height and higher rates.
For shock damping, I've drilled a drain hole at the top of a shock and drained the fluid. Replaced it with heavier fluid from motorcycle shops. Then put a rubber patch over the hole and secure it with a hose clamp. This was mentioned earlier...but I've actually done this. Worked fine.
For a stiffer front sway bar could you get away with using two stock swaybars, stacked like spoons? I've done that before attaching a lower bar with a whole bunch of hose clamps. You cut the last couple inches off to clear the links.
Kinda sounds like fun.
Raising the spring seat is a sweet and simple idea, no question it was a free mod
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01-09-2014, 10:25 PM
#39
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I'm reading and looking, it looks like you would have to go with a high durometer rubber to get any significant rate increase on your springs. Could certainly be an extremely handy tuning tool while testing at the track and maybe permanent use. Wonder why these aren't more common. Anyone used these on track or even around autocross or town?
Longacre Racing Online -- Tech Article "Spring Rubber Use"
Longacre Racing Online -- Tech Article "Spring Rubber Use"
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01-09-2014, 10:54 PM
#40
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Anyone ever used SACHS shocks? They're German if my research suits me but I don't see a lot of info on them. Parent company is ZF ZF Friedrichshafen AG | ZF Motorsports
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