Wilwood brake upgrade unbalanced?
10-07-2010, 09:49 AM
#41
Please guys, let's not get in a big fight over track data, upgraded brake bias, and trail braking.
Can't we all agree that without very careful g-force tests, this is mostly bench-racing?
And of course there are so many variables including tires, aero, and car weight.
It's hard to see someone assimilating all that info just from description.
Is sjmarcy's point about the Miata's poor natural brake bias true?
I couldn't say. My street car rarely sees full braking force.
But the number of good track cars says otherwise.
Not to mention Savington's vast experience.
I think I'll stick with my own brakes.
Mostly because I'm cheap.
Well, poor, not cheap.
Not the same.
Just poor.
Can't we all agree that without very careful g-force tests, this is mostly bench-racing?
And of course there are so many variables including tires, aero, and car weight.
It's hard to see someone assimilating all that info just from description.
Is sjmarcy's point about the Miata's poor natural brake bias true?
I couldn't say. My street car rarely sees full braking force.
But the number of good track cars says otherwise.
Not to mention Savington's vast experience.
I think I'll stick with my own brakes.
Mostly because I'm cheap.
Well, poor, not cheap.
Not the same.
Just poor.
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10-07-2010, 12:06 PM
#43
SOooooooooooooooooooooooooooo OP update here.
I bled the brakes yesterday afternoon only to find it did nothing. Still pulls to the right and locks on the right in hard braking. I have the wilwood compound E pad which are pretty agressive for street use and I can see a small nitch in the rotor where it is wearing more on the passenger side FYI. It almost feels like that side is doing 75% of the work. Possibilites I can come up with that could be the problem(please assist me in guessing the problem):
1) Bad caliper
2) Something wrong internally in the brake lines/system (I have no idea how to source the problem there)
3) Mild possibility of installing the prop valve wrong?? (really doubt it bc it seemed real straight forward)
4) NO effing clue??
I'm positve sport rears would def lessen the problem but it just irks the hell out of me to drive a car I dont feel confident in. Both my cars have BBKs and I upgraded for a reason. Just really frustrated this isnt cut and dry like most of the problems I had with this car since I've had it. Thanks for the help guys and I'll forgive the off-topic convo on the other page....lol
3)
I bled the brakes yesterday afternoon only to find it did nothing. Still pulls to the right and locks on the right in hard braking. I have the wilwood compound E pad which are pretty agressive for street use and I can see a small nitch in the rotor where it is wearing more on the passenger side FYI. It almost feels like that side is doing 75% of the work. Possibilites I can come up with that could be the problem(please assist me in guessing the problem):
1) Bad caliper
2) Something wrong internally in the brake lines/system (I have no idea how to source the problem there)
3) Mild possibility of installing the prop valve wrong?? (really doubt it bc it seemed real straight forward)
4) NO effing clue??
I'm positve sport rears would def lessen the problem but it just irks the hell out of me to drive a car I dont feel confident in. Both my cars have BBKs and I upgraded for a reason. Just really frustrated this isnt cut and dry like most of the problems I had with this car since I've had it. Thanks for the help guys and I'll forgive the off-topic convo on the other page....lol
3)
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10-07-2010, 12:39 PM
#44
Just caught something......
http://www.flyinmiata.com/support/in...ning_valve.pdf
In this link of instructions on the FM prop valve installation on the bottom of page 1 and top of page 2. Does it not look like they have 2 different lines ran to the top of the valve in these pics?
I hope this is the problem (I installed this wrong) as it would be an easy fix....I'm headed home now to see if it makes a diference when I tun the valve.
Wish me luck.....
http://www.flyinmiata.com/support/in...ning_valve.pdf
In this link of instructions on the FM prop valve installation on the bottom of page 1 and top of page 2. Does it not look like they have 2 different lines ran to the top of the valve in these pics?
I hope this is the problem (I installed this wrong) as it would be an easy fix....I'm headed home now to see if it makes a diference when I tun the valve.
Wish me luck.....
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10-07-2010, 01:36 PM
#45
I'm back...I reversed the prop valve and it only made things worse since all the bias was at the front and all the front is on the right.
FAIL.
Back to the drawing board......I think I'm going to try and switch the calipers this weekend??
Could there be a dent or something in the hard line to slow flow going to the driver's side? Possible?
FAIL.
Back to the drawing board......I think I'm going to try and switch the calipers this weekend??
Could there be a dent or something in the hard line to slow flow going to the driver's side? Possible?
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10-07-2010, 01:56 PM
#47
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This may or not be relevant so bear with me 
I had the same issue with my stock setup, it locked the passenger wheel first without fail. I tried bleeds pads swooping calipers left/right etc etc.
The problem ended up being one of the rear calipers sliders were seized, freed that of and bingo, car pulled up straight as a die again.
I realise our setups differ greatly, but it's worth a look.
I had the same issue with my stock setup, it locked the passenger wheel first without fail. I tried bleeds pads swooping calipers left/right etc etc.
The problem ended up being one of the rear calipers sliders were seized, freed that of and bingo, car pulled up straight as a die again.
I realise our setups differ greatly, but it's worth a look.
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10-07-2010, 02:22 PM
#49
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This may or not be relevant so bear with me
I had the same issue with my stock setup, it locked the passenger wheel first without fail. I tried bleeds pads swooping calipers left/right etc etc.
The problem ended up being one of the rear calipers sliders were seized, freed that of and bingo, car pulled up straight as a die again.
I realise our setups differ greatly, but it's worth a look.
I had the same issue with my stock setup, it locked the passenger wheel first without fail. I tried bleeds pads swooping calipers left/right etc etc.
The problem ended up being one of the rear calipers sliders were seized, freed that of and bingo, car pulled up straight as a die again.
I realise our setups differ greatly, but it's worth a look.
The OP's car needs a thorough look over it appears, given the prop valve reinstall.
Once the fundamentals are addressed, voila, it will stop much, much better.
One of the local Miata guys I helped out is still thanking me RE his now excellent braking.
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10-07-2010, 03:23 PM
#51
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Yeah after a long time getting nowhere listening to the forums, local shops, and guys in his car club…we fixed his car so that it finally stops very well. I just used the car for tire break-in recently and it now does excellent G-Gs, trail brakes well, and is very stable. Mission accomplished on that Miata.
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10-07-2010, 03:25 PM
#52
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Yeah after a long time getting nowhere listening to the forums, local shops, and guys in his car club…we fixed his car so that it finally stops very well. I just used the car for tire break-in recently and it now does excellent G-Gs, trail brakes well, and is very stable. Mission accomplished on that Miata.
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10-07-2010, 03:53 PM
#56
This may or not be relevant so bear with me
I had the same issue with my stock setup, it locked the passenger wheel first without fail. I tried bleeds pads swooping calipers left/right etc etc.
The problem ended up being one of the rear calipers sliders were seized, freed that of and bingo, car pulled up straight as a die again.
I realise our setups differ greatly, but it's worth a look.
I had the same issue with my stock setup, it locked the passenger wheel first without fail. I tried bleeds pads swooping calipers left/right etc etc.
The problem ended up being one of the rear calipers sliders were seized, freed that of and bingo, car pulled up straight as a die again.
I realise our setups differ greatly, but it's worth a look.
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10-07-2010, 05:03 PM
#59
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You're a master, dude. It's absolutely incredible how you can read a post, warp it in your head, and make the same rhetoric you've been babbling about recently seem relevant to it.
He said that a rear brake caliper sticking caused the front right to lock. All he did was bring his STOCK system back into working order, and it was an excellent system again - and you've masterfully twisted his analysis of his problem and solution into a bias problem that he somehow solved by dicking with the rear brakes, and then furthered your attempt to mislead the OP into thinking that poorly biased brakes is somehow causing his issue, when it is not.
You want shitty attitude? Why are you trying to consistently mislead the guy? I understand that brake bias is your talking point this week, and you've got to put all that data you've got to good use, but brake bias is not the OP's issue.
All of the data you're posting to "prove" your point, attacks on other people's character, sly comments about attitude, and self-aggrandizing "well i helped this person whose driving abilities I've conveniently neglected to mention and THEY ARE STILL SWOONING OVER MY INNATE ABILITIES" - it just furthers your talking point, regardless of whether it's relevant or not.
Stop trying to mislead people on this forum. You talk a lot of **** about how forums don't give good answers, and then you provide shitty, shitty answers in the same thread. Just stop posting and let those of us who have a reasonable view of the OP's issues help him solve his problem.
OP, find another Miata or a factory service manual and set the bias EXACTLY AS STOCK. Then go through all 4 corners of the brakes, make sure the slider pins are greased, make sure everything is bled, nothing leaks. Check your wheel bearings, check your tire pressures, ensure that there is no significant cause of drag that would cause the car to pull to one side or the other. There is nothing inherently wrong with your braking system, it's just not functioning properly - and that's the problem you need to solve.
He said that a rear brake caliper sticking caused the front right to lock. All he did was bring his STOCK system back into working order, and it was an excellent system again - and you've masterfully twisted his analysis of his problem and solution into a bias problem that he somehow solved by dicking with the rear brakes, and then furthered your attempt to mislead the OP into thinking that poorly biased brakes is somehow causing his issue, when it is not.
You want shitty attitude? Why are you trying to consistently mislead the guy? I understand that brake bias is your talking point this week, and you've got to put all that data you've got to good use, but brake bias is not the OP's issue.
All of the data you're posting to "prove" your point, attacks on other people's character, sly comments about attitude, and self-aggrandizing "well i helped this person whose driving abilities I've conveniently neglected to mention and THEY ARE STILL SWOONING OVER MY INNATE ABILITIES" - it just furthers your talking point, regardless of whether it's relevant or not.
Stop trying to mislead people on this forum. You talk a lot of **** about how forums don't give good answers, and then you provide shitty, shitty answers in the same thread. Just stop posting and let those of us who have a reasonable view of the OP's issues help him solve his problem.
OP, find another Miata or a factory service manual and set the bias EXACTLY AS STOCK. Then go through all 4 corners of the brakes, make sure the slider pins are greased, make sure everything is bled, nothing leaks. Check your wheel bearings, check your tire pressures, ensure that there is no significant cause of drag that would cause the car to pull to one side or the other. There is nothing inherently wrong with your braking system, it's just not functioning properly - and that's the problem you need to solve.
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