1st tank of e85. IM IN WAY OVER MY HEAD. PLEASE help me.E85 USERS GET IN HERE!!!!!!!! - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 08-14-2010, 08:20 PM   #1
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Default 1st tank of e85. IM IN WAY OVER MY HEAD. PLEASE help me.E85 USERS GET IN HERE!!!!!!!!

FIRST OFF, I PLEAD AND BEG OF YOU TO READ THIS WHOLE POST. I KNOW ITS LONG, BUT IM SERIOUSLY OUT OF IDEAS AND AM BEGGING YOU GUYS TO HELP ME.



Little bit of a backstory:

After fiddling around with injector dead time values I finally got an answer in a different thread that oem nb runs 60psi fuel pressure. Adjusted dead times accordingly and car fired up and ran on pump gas with the ID1000's and walbro.


YESTERDAY

I went and got my 1st tank of e85.

I knew from reading a few e85 threads to increase whole map by about 30% as well as jack up the CRANKING FUEL by quite a lot.

Well, I did that, and here's my problem:


The car takes FOREVER AND A HALF to start. Hot starts I'd spin it for a good 15-20 seconds before one by one the cylinders would start firing and finally it would come alive.

COLD STARTS forget about it. we're talking a solid 20-30 seconds of cranking and even then it doesn't always start.

Now I read the e85/Rotorex thread where you guys told bellwilliam to jack up cranking values a LOT and did that. NOTHING. I jacked them up to insane ammounts and got to the point where its dumping so much fuel I can almost taste it and the smell is overwhelming and it still won't start right. I turned it down. NOTHING. raised my fuel map. I lowered it. played with just about any CRANKING FUEL value I can think of raising and lowering to extremes and NOTHING.

I tried advancing timing while cranking. Nothing.

My near new battery is hating me right now and will probably die soon.


SOMEONE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take a look at my map and help me figure this out. I'm seriously stuck here guys.


Attached is my map. I used a combination of my old map, the nb 600cc map, and bellwilliams e85/Rotrex maps to make this one, and it looks decent to me, but im probably doing something way wrong and causing my car to start like ****.



Full specs:
2000 NB
mtuned rods+9.1:1 pistons
stock head
all seals/gaskets replaced
stock ignition system w/ ngk brk7e gapped to .040
3076r w/ 7psi wga spring (no mbc for now) fmic
Injector Dynamics 1000cc injectors
Walbro 255 HP fuel pump

Thats most of it.
Attached Files
File Type: ecu NEW TRIAL 1000CC E85 MAP.ecu (8.0 KB, 118 views)
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Old 08-14-2010, 08:26 PM   #2
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UPDATE:

Just a few minutes ago I tried to start it

IT FIRED RIGHT UP


But was running super rough. After a while of idling it, it dipped low in rpm and died. Tried starting it back up and SAME **** AGAIN: had to crank it for a solid 10seconds before it fired.

A bit better than yesterday (without changing ANYTHING) but still way horrible.



Another thing I noticed: now every time I go into boost I start misfiring around 4k and no power. AFR's are super ritch, there is no knock, everything runs ok, but it just hits a wall as soon as I go past 2-3psi.

PLUGS?

My friend that owns an evo is telling me that my plugs are either fouled up or too cold for the e85. He's telling me to get new plugs, and get 1 step hotter instead of 1 step colder.

I did a bunch of searching on various forums, and also read the NGK site info, and there are mixed reviews. A bunch of people reported much better cold start and smoother running cars with 1 step hotter plugs wiht e85
Others said 1 step colder is better for high performance boosted vehicles and to stick with that. And that 1step colder won't foul up with e85 cause it has different properties than gas.


WHO IS RIGHT?

Anyone know anything about this?
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Old 08-14-2010, 08:59 PM   #3
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It was not with E85, but I have fouled out mu plugs when playing with cranking and idle mixtures. The plugs get so coated with carbon (conductive) that it creates a short from the electrode to ground and the spark gets weak. Then you go nuts trying to figure out WTF is going on until you pull the plugs and see all of the carbon. Swap in some clean plugs, then everything gets easier again.

Not saying this is for sure your problem, but it is possible. Your evo buddy could be right.
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:33 PM   #4
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How do your plugs look? Not sure how e85 plugs are supposed to look though.
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:34 PM   #5
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A bit dirty, but IMO nothing insanely fouled or messed up. Maybe I'm wrong.
Going to pick up some fresh stock heat range ngk's and see what that does.
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Going to pick up some fresh stock heat range ngk's and see what that does.
This could be your fix. I've had plugs that looked perfectly fine, but repeatedly foul for no apparent reason.
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Old 08-15-2010, 12:26 AM   #7
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Picked up some BKR5E's

Throwing them in now. Oh god if this fixes my start problems I'm going to *** from happiness lol




Anyone have any input on my cranking settings? Or my whole map in general? Y8s? Sav? Anyone with tuning knowledge/e85 knowledge?

Chime in please guys, even if its with negative comments
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Old 08-15-2010, 02:36 AM   #8
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PM me your email and I'll mail you a gas map and an E85 map. You can compare cranking settings and fuel map values. Remember that I bumped the base pressure significantly between the two maps.

My car starts up with pretty much no issue, hot or cold. I can reach in, flip the switch and hit the button and it lights right off after ~2 seconds (as normal, AEM w/o fast sync takes a moment to figure it out). I have no IAC so I take what I can get as far as idle quality. It does NOT like to rev when it's cold. As soon as I touch the gas it runs on 2-3 cylinders for a moment, dies when I try to blip it, it's really nasty. I've tried playing with throttle enrichment to no avail. When it's warm or hot, it's awesome, right from an idle it will snap up to redline with no hesitation. (aka I start it up and let it sit for 15 minutes before trying to do anything with it.)
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Old 08-15-2010, 02:49 AM   #9
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pm sent.

Thanx man
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Old 08-15-2010, 02:14 PM   #10
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I'm certainly no help with the E85, but I was having a lot of similar problems that were ultimately remedied by drastically narrowing the plug gap and ultimately going to COPS. If you're still fighting with it, it might be worth knocking the gap down to .025 to see what happens.
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Old 08-15-2010, 05:46 PM   #11
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add push button ether injection
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:06 PM   #12
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I'm seriously considering ******* pushing this thing off a cliff.

I'm going to try to contact Travis @ boundary engineering and see if he can help me. If not, I'm in the market for a new ecu. This ******* thing has NO ******* SUPPORT AT ALL for e85. I mean zero, zilch, nada, I went on the goddamn motherfucking adaptronic forums and there's literally like 2 threads on the whole forum about e85, and those are just like "well I guess this ecu can support e85" or something useless like that.


I need some ******* answers, and no one has them.

After dicking around with it today all morning, I'm just so ******* pissed I can't see straight.


It doesn't want to start. No matter what crank fuel settings.

I THINK I got it to start at least within 5 seconds of cranking and WOT on the gas pedal (cause otherwise it takes longer) by advancing cranking timing 40*. Is that even safe?


Once it starts I got it to run fairly "OK" last night after messing with it for 3 hours and 1 tank of e85 later. Today after I got it to finally ******* start, it DOES NOT want to hold an idle at all no matter what, and as soon as you touch the gas pedal the car dies. This after it was running damn near decent last night. THERE IS NO ******* CONSISTENCY WHATSOEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


on top of it all, AND THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST ANNOYING ******* THINGS EVERRRRRRRR:
uploads/downloads for new map take like 10 minutes. Its SO ****** SLOW.

I am on firmware 6 WARI 6. ARE THEY FUCKED UP OR WHAT?????
And yes, I read zxtex' thread where he simply reflashed firmware and it all got better. And yes I reflashed like 10 times already. NOTHING.


This ******* ecu is really starting to **** me off.

/rant

Last edited by 18psi; 08-15-2010 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:24 PM   #13
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Can MS3 support E85?
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:25 PM   #14
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The cranking fuel settings have to be pretty much exact. I had the same trouble when I was trying to get mine going on gas. Make sure you have a couple sets of fresh plugs on hand because I totally fouled a couple sets when I was trying to get it going. It made me want to run up to my room and cry many times. Don't give up.

https://www.miataturbo.net/adaptronic-63/need-help-tuning-adaptronic-rotrex-e85-42698/

Is your inconsistent starting right now a result of mixing e85 with gasoline, or did you drain all of your gas before getting a tank of e85?

As for the firmware....I'm still on V2 cause **** ain't broke yet.
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:28 PM   #15
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No idea. But I can't just sit there with my thumb up my *** with this stupid ******* adaptronic that no one knows how it works.

I need to either get some direction on what I'm doing wrong or how to set it up for e85 or buy an ecu that someone can help me with. I'm not a damn master tuner. I'm not an industry pioneer. I'm not an electronics genious. I need help from someone that made this ecu or someone that sells them.


I need to talk to Ben about how well a DIYPNP will work with e85. Someone that's on the forums regularly that can give me some help hopefully.
I haven't seen Travis on here in over 6 months.
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgmorr View Post
The cranking fuel settings have to be pretty much exact. I had the same trouble when I was trying to get mine going on gas. Make sure you have a couple sets of fresh plugs on hand because I totally fouled a couple sets when I was trying to get it going. It made me want to run up to my room and cry many times. Don't give up.

https://www.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=42698

As for the firmware....I'm still on V2 cause **** ain't broke yet.
Here's the crazy thing though: I went back to v2 AND v3 and WARI 1.3 and it STILL TAKES THAT LONG TO REFLASH
I tried those, I tried v6, I tried v5 (am currently on v5). NOTHING. No matter what, it takes about 10 minutes to load in a new map from laptop to ecu. When its already in the ecu, it takes the same as before to download onto laptop: a minute or so. But from laptop to ecu, FORGET ABOUT IT

What in the ******* **** is going on????
Is my Adaptronic fucked up? I'm starting to suspect that it is
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:34 PM   #17
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My ninja edit skills were too slow above

Is your inconsistent starting right now a result of mixing e85 with gasoline, or did you drain all of your gas before getting a tank of e85?

If you get a PnP MS3 made, let me know. I am interested in one. The only reason I got the Adaptronic is because it was the cheapest PnP.
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:45 PM   #18
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On gasoline I had ZERO starting problems. It would fire right up.
Before I got my 1st tank of e85 I made sure the gas gauge needle was at its lowest point, so maybe just a TINY little bit of gasoline in there that was mixed in.

It took forever to start at the station when I got my 1st tank, but I thought "well this is to be expected" jacked up the cranking fuel settings, spun the starter for all of 20-30seconds before it finally fired, and limped it home.

Have been messing with it for majority of yesterday and today trying EVERYTHING I could think of and NOTHING.

Its weird, in the morning after its sat all night I go to crank it and it fires right up. Works for a couple seconds, then dies. Then its BACK TO THE SAME BULLSHIT: cranking for eternity til one by one the cylinders start catching and firing. Then it sounds like its running on 3 cylinders for a few seconds, then it gets better.

This morning I cranked the "crank timing btdc" from the normal 10* to a hefty 40* and actually got it to start firing up a little quicker. 5 seconds of cranking as opposed to 10-20.

And last night I went out and tuned it (like I've already said earlier) for a long time. Got it to be "DECENT" when its finally fired up and running. Idle was good, and I even dipped into boost a bit and got it to more or less drive decently.

It was a little chilly out.
Today its hot out.

I go out and fire it up and its ABSOLUTE ****. I mean nothing at all works whatsoever.

Now I know you're thinking: his warmup enrichments are fuxxorzed"
Well take a look at them: they're exactly what everyone else is running. Show me what I'm doing wrong.

I just don't get it.
ZERO consistency.


And map upload times are ****. absolute ****. 10 minutes to upload a map from laptop to ecu? WTF??????????
I've tried every version of WARI and firmware I can find. I've tried re-loading both. I've tried reflashing firmware numerous times to see if it wlil just "fix itself" NOTHING.****
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:49 PM   #19
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I"ve sent a PM to Travis but he hasn't even logged into the forum since the 2nd of August.

I'm screwedd
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Old 08-15-2010, 10:10 PM   #20
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You need to get drunk tonight Vlad. Maybe you will smash the son of a bitch and have to buy a new computer. Have you seen this? Oh, and i am diggin the eyelids.

https://www.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=42698
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