BE CAREFUL WITH TIMING GUYS!!! seriously - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 10-15-2009, 04:58 PM   #1
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Default BE CAREFUL WITH TIMING GUYS!!! seriously

So I thought our base maps had the most conservative timing maps ever. Well guess what: WE WERE WRONG ABOUT THAT.

Here is what happened to my piston:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t40225/

This is about 99% the result of my ignition map.

So guys, do yourselves a favor: BE CAREFUL.

I've had a ton of people check out my ignition map and say it is very dangerous and shitty. I will never use it again.

Here it is:



It is the same map that is being used in all the base map packages on the adaptronic section.

BE CAREFUL.
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Old 10-15-2009, 05:06 PM   #2
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Wow, that is a lot of timing for a stock motor at 200kpa. Did you hear any ping before the piston melted?
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Old 10-15-2009, 05:10 PM   #3
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Why in gay hell do you have your map scaled to 300kPa and 13k rpm?

And you're running a pretty fair amount of timing in boost.
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Old 10-15-2009, 05:16 PM   #4
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at 200kpa (14.7psi gage), 6500rpm I am at 18.2. My map at that load range looks similar to yours. Are you sure you are getting XXX degrees at the engine when XXX degrees is displayed? The AEM EMS has a feature you have to set to account for the skew as RPM's rise.

What I don't like is the not smooth-ness of the map. Big drop at boost threshold, then flat. Not ideal?

EDIT cause the phone rang and I didn't realize I wans't done...

Why the "F" is your map scaled like that?! Do you really plan to run 13000rpm and 29psi?
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Old 10-15-2009, 05:19 PM   #5
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smooth is king
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Old 10-15-2009, 05:29 PM   #6
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At 6500rpm/7psi (150kpa? on your map) I am running 10 more timing than you. My car is in one piece for basically for ever...
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Old 10-15-2009, 05:37 PM   #7
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Tim, what kind of gas is that run on?
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Old 10-15-2009, 05:39 PM   #8
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92 octane Wawa. I can add a few degrees and get nothing on the dyno, so I keep it where it is.

Also, my car tends to sit for months, so who knows how good the gas is.
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Old 10-15-2009, 05:43 PM   #9
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I don't really see anything on that map that would lead me to think it would hurt the motor. Needs smoothing but, nothing overly dangerous.

Is your base timing set right?
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Old 10-15-2009, 07:09 PM   #10
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In some areas mine's quite a bit more agressive but I'm only boosting to 8psi with 93 oct. No audible knock. I wonder if I should tone it down?

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Old 10-15-2009, 07:13 PM   #11
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And I'm running 20deg at 200kpa in a stock motor. ****!
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Old 10-15-2009, 07:23 PM   #12
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Most people say you can add 4 degrees to the supplied map and have that as a good starting point. I'm not into a position to dispute the hole in the side of your block as evidence that there was definitely a problem though. What were your AFR's? The same damage could be cause by a lean condition first, and then as a part of the piston superheats it starts igniting the mixture.

I would love to see an EGT of the supplied adaptronic ignition map, any more retarded and I imagine your exhaust gas starts getting toasty.
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Old 10-15-2009, 07:44 PM   #13
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There is a huge timing map thread in the MS forum with gobs of timing maps on different engine setups. Take a look at those maps for some kind of an idea.
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Old 10-15-2009, 07:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX-Tex View Post
There is a huge timing map thread in the MS forum with gobs of timing maps on different engine setups. Take a look at those maps for some kind of an idea.
That's how I came up with my timing map.
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Old 10-15-2009, 07:49 PM   #15
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Minezezezezez
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:02 PM   #16
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This is my JRSC timing tuned on a steady state dyno:

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Old 10-15-2009, 09:43 PM   #17
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That looks amazingly nice.
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:59 PM   #18
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Guys, don't you lose some (or a lot) of resolution when your maps are scaled out that far? Seems like a waste.
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Old 10-15-2009, 10:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
at 200kpa (14.7psi gage), 6500rpm I am at 18.2
Ditto here. Actually, I'm running about 18 at 4,000 RPM, where it ought to do a lot more damage. My engine didn't destroy itself even after the WI system clogged. Stock internals, 93 (R+M)/2 gasoline.
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Old 10-15-2009, 10:01 PM   #20
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12psi. No audible knock. No recorded knock whatsoever in the logs or when monitoring screen. Afr's were very rich in cruise at about 13 or so, and very rich in boost at about low 11's even dipping into high 10's sometimes. Car ran like a raped ape. I mean IT REALLY MOVED OUT! I was very happy with it and about to start really fine tuning away all the little bugs and whatnot. Also wanted to get the afr's into more gas mileage friendly area's. Right before all of that, It just blew.

I may be wrong in saying its dangerous, but I know for damn sure it wasn't my afr's or too much boost. Not much left but timing and what not.

BTW its set to 13k rpm because I have it in 500rpm increments. Only way to lower it is to change it to 250rpm increments. I guess I'll do that. Haven't thought about it much really.
Rafa - I'm not sure if its what it says it is, but I'm assuming it is.


PS: To the people that run as much or more timing: I'm assuming you're not on 91 CALI ****. I'm guessing our crappy gas had something to do with this as well.
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