Getting 800cc injectors to idle
 

Does any one have any input? I have not had much luck.

on pump gas? it should be as easy as setting up dead time corrections properly and doing very minor adjustments to your previous map.

my 1000's were no problem at all on gas.

e85 whole different story though

Mine idle. Better than my msm injectors. One thing I did was to leave the master scale factor built in so when make changes you can make small changes easier.

I'm assuming you have the dw injector. The lately curve took me awhile to get units correctly. If I remember correctly you need to add a zero to their table to get the units right.

Yes sir, 93 pump gas.

yes the dw800s and yes they are in the 10 range so it says 4.6 on the graph or whatever but its 46 on the adaptronic chart.

You guys got anything i can see and try to go off of?
currently my setup is revved up to 1600 rpm to keep it up, when the fans kick on it goes down to 1k sometimes to 900 for a sec or two then it goes back up to 1600ish. When i first start it up it barely idles so i gotta give it gas until it starts up. This is completely fresh map so i dont have anything setup as far as the idle goes nor do i have an old map for idle as i just got the ecu installed. The rest of the map is good but the crazy idle.

What map are you using?

The 600cc base map that's in the package should actually be able to work close enough for you. Hell, I used it to run my 1000's at first and while not great it actually worked decently and the car idled on it.

no map bud, just something Travis started from scratch.

Alrighty i got a steady idle. 1.1k and it stays steady however its running at 11:1-12:1!!! i've tried adding and removing fuel from the maps, no luck, it appears that some enrichments i dont know about are mixing my idle up. It dies when i lower or lift both windows at the same time, same with the fans. Also once in a while it would start bouncing up and down 2-300rpm out of control and eventually becomes very unstable and dies. Also something else i'm having problems with is engine decelerating is still giving me fuel ratios of 10-12, my 0kpa row is all 0s and still no luck.

Sounds like what I went through (minus the electrical). Run it in open loop. I'm still cleaning up my map but I can post where its at if you like. its crazy rich takes awhile to fire but goes down the road well, no boost. I just did my first hand smoothing tonight.

i tried open loop here and there but not much luck :( I'll try to go crazy with the leaning out but dont some of the enrichments still stay in tact?

The even crazier thing is when it dies it dies because it leans out (closed loop that is) I crank on it for about 4-5 seconds and it starts and if i dont give her gas right away she dies because shes still leaned out, then after some time it will richen up and idle perfectly normal at 1.1k again.

hey what do you know my LC1 sensor just died, any one has any info on how to clean it up or is it toast? Its showing anything from a blinking 7.4 to full lean 21.8. Also i saw some one found a replacement bosch sensor from vw, any more info?

When I first started tuning everything was really rich and it covered the o2 in soot. I took it out, cleaned it off by hand and everything seemed to be more predictable. I think y8s had a similar thread somewhere on here about that.

well i searched around and found that 03 vw beetles upper sensor works, went to vatozone and bought one. 51 bucks part number 17014 and with 1 year warranty. It sure beats the 75 bucks from innovate, no warranty + shipping cost by a mile.

Oh and for future reference i'll tare it up from the passenger side no the drivers side. My downpipe is leaned towards the passenger side so there is a lot more room to fit the wrench up there. I had to jack it up twice lol.

It's an 800cc injector, don't expect to idle it at stoich. If you can get a solid 13:1 idle I'd be very, very pleased with that.

What's the minimum on times on the DW800s? Part of the reason 18psi and I can idle 1000cc injectors so well is the crazy low minimum time of the ID750/1000s.

well i dont mind 13 however i do have a problem with 10:1 :P

So i screwed around a bit with the settings and the a/fs. Yes for the first time i got a solid 15a/f without it bouncing all over the place. Anyhow my solution to the problem for my bouncy idle was setting the 3 control parameters to 0. They were originally set for 3, 8, and 1. Before it would go to 1k, idle for a sec or two then go crazy and start bouncing. 1k ~11a/f up to 1400rpm 17a/f then back down to 1k then back up to 1.4k...no way of setting a solid a/f level since half the time its off the gas.

will setting those 3 to 0 upset the already set settings or am i currently running the thing in open loop due to them being at 0?

I can idle at any afr. Right now it idles at 14. I think I have values in the .4 range but I'd have to check since I use the master trim to make adjustments more fine with the keyboard.

my idles are at 1.800-1.900 :confused:

This is pissing me off, earlier i was stuck in traffic and my a/fs went in the toilet. RICH RICH RICH. average of 14 a/f went to 11-12s even under light driving where for sure i'm above 14 normally... i'm currently using the stock push in temp sensor and its mounted in the engine bay, do you think this is the reason for the crazy rich a/fs? It was traffic so yes the car was warmed up, the temp sensor using the F2 gauges was reading 48 degrees C.

Also my idle went back to rich again even after the car is cold, it makes no sense since i did not change anything and the a/fs at idle change to whatever they want to change. :vash:

I'm completely clueless which parameters you're talking about.
My idle is ok, definitely needs more work. I'd love it to be rock solid at anywhere between 12-15 (one can only wish right?:giggle:).

go to corrections tab, then click on set closed loop parameters right under the closed loop mode. the top 3 is what i changed to 0s

Also where did you guys get your air temp sensors that you install into the pipe before the throttle body?

diyautotune

Thank you again sir :)

Hey triple,

How was the weekend? Get to spend any time on it?

I got the chance to ride in ILoveOffRamps MSM at Hallett last weekend, it felt good and he was having a good time with it. :) Mostly. lol

The injectors are supporting 14.7 at idle just fine, its the damn ecu leaning as soon as voltage drops. Here is an example, i lower my windows, a/fs go up to 17 parts for few seconds. i turn on the lights, same thing, i rise/lower both windows at the same time, engine dies because its leaning out +19a/fs...

I keep picking at it little by little but that voltage drop a/fs increase i cannot figure out yet.

I'm not too familiar with the tuning software you have - I've messed with ILOR's a couple of times - but you might look to see if there is a voltage adjustment or compensation for when the injectors will see a lower output.

Honestly i'm hoping to replace them the next emissions testings if not sooner, i've just about had it with those big injectors. .001ms makes enough difference to go lean and the car to die at idle...either that or they are opening different amounts whenever they want to as adaptronic isnt showing any changes in ms nor the air sensor.

I wish i had stuck with my plans and gotten smaller but Travis said he had those idling...

The big deal with the injectors is that you have to be gentle with the fuel maps. Lots of massaging. Additionally fuel isn't the only setting you need to be concerned with. The idle side is definitely involved as well. Those 800s run great on my Miata, but it did take some tinkering.

Well the issue is that they are doing whatever they want. Now they would be extra rich, a sec later same setting they will go to lean then back to rich. I cannot get a solid a/f unless i'm pushing them at +3ms. Not only at idle, any setting that is at low ms goes crazy.

Hrrrm, upgrade to the newest firmware and see if PD ignition helps solve the problem. Like I said man. I didn't get that idle completely finished when you were down, (we were having problems with the labtop connecting). Meet me somewhere, and I'll get it tuned the rest of the way in or we'll get a new set of injectors in it.

If you do your turbo upgrades first, I've been planning to goto Chicago anyways. Find a place with a set of rollers rent some time and I'll tune in your new setup for free, and then finish your idle out.

Hi,
Can someone please post their DW 800cc ecu maps here? or send it to me samsa@miata.fi thank you :)

Getting them injectors to start in sub 0 temps seems to be even bigger issue. Currently I have them set for cranking between 4-5ms which is obviously rich however if i lower them down to 2-3 ms where they should be, the car keeps cranking like there is no fuel.

triple88a: can you please send/post your DW 800cc maps so I can get my car running :)

My fuel map is the only thing that is alright, i got it to start at 36 at -10c and slowly reducing fuel as temp goes up to 29 at like 60C and then 29 from there down.

I'll get the map tomorrow.

As promissed this is what i'm running right now. Please understand this map is not perfect. I'm running at 6 psi so it is tuned up to only 140. Dont forget the baseline of your sensors will change the tunes little bit.

I got my car running with original 240cc map when reduce idle values from 2.4ms to 0.8ms. AFR was 14.7 straight up as seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHKfuVQCJDw

Do I have to change “dead time values” with these DW injectors? My stock injectors seems to have 1,1ms but triple88a has 0,14ms in his ECU file. What is correct value with these Deatschwerks?

Check your paperwork from Deatschwerks. Its in there. I ended up changing mine a bit to get it running. Let me know what you get.

If the actual deadtime is longer than what you put in the software, when running closed loop O2 in idle, the injectors can abruptly lean and the engine will die.

The latency (dead time) values we provide are collected in a laboratory environment. They should be used as a guideline and tweaked until you get it to your liking.

Also, settings are going to be a little different from car to car.

Can you tell us what the "clamp voltage" is on the drivers you used?
A different clamp voltage gives a different effective dead time.
Higher clamp voltage = larger dead time.

Sorry i must have missed this post. Why you were running only .8ms i dont know, maybe my injectors are not fully opening so they need longer time? Anyhow see your afrs are all over from the upper 13s...over the 15s not steady 14.7 Maybe i'm just ---- about it but when i was running stock ecu, that gauge almost never changed. I've yet to get a good steady afr with the adaptronic. Once i hit operating temp my motor starts looping around and revving slowly withing a 200 rpm band around my 850 rpm target... my afrs end up swinging between low to mid 13s up to mid 15s.

I changed my dead times to the values provided with the injectors as they seem a little less laggy although the motor seems to die easier when the fans turn on.

I ended up to ditch my old map and start new VE map with correct dead time values from Deatschwerks. My idle shows steady 14.7 now after cold start enrichments.

Car runs happy now. At 160kPa I see inj.duty cycles around 50% :) Only problem is that my Water injection seems to destroy my MAP sensors pretty quick. Have to use longer boost hose for sure…

Put a loop in it before the EMS.

Sorry I'm not the smartest guy :) Do you mean like setting the boost hose in spiral or?

yep. like a fucking roller coaster.

http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum...den004_256.jpg

Thanks :D all clear now

Another thing that will help is to position the ECU is a manner that the MAP sensor points downward, so any moisture will "drain" out of it.

Mind sending me your map pls?

Everyone i hear seems to say VE is the way to go.

here's my recent map http://www.miata.fi/kuvat/ecu/VE800_653.ecu

Note that this map is far from perfect but it runs. You can copy the inj. dead time values thought…

I have European NB with return type fuel system. So my fuel pressure is around 50-55psi so basically I should set my injectors to 900cc size in VE settings

TY sir.

Holy crap just found the error in my map. Can you guess it?

What affects the fuel at different voltages such as when the fans kick on or the windows go up or the lights are turned on?





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injector dead times... with .15 dead time these gotta be from the future....
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1315268601