Idle goes lean when fans kick in!!! ARRRRRGHHH!! - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 03-16-2010, 02:03 AM   #1
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Default Idle goes lean when fans kick in!!! ARRRRRGHHH!!

Its driving me INSANE

Someone PLEASE enlighten me on wtf I need to adjust.

Here is the problem:

I have the enrichments and idle fairly decent by now. On the rich side by far but its safe and steady enough for me to be comfortable with it at least for now. When the car gets hot enough to cycle fans, you can hear them come on and IMMEDIATELY it goes from the normal 13.5-14.7 to 15.5-16.

I've made it richer which doesn't help at all cause then its pig rich when they're not on. I've messed with water temp corrections. I've messed with air temp corrections. Messed with the "electric load", "extra effort" etc.....Messed with all the options in the "idle" tab and nothing seems to help. I KNOW there's got to be something I'm missing.


Anyone have any ideas? This happens ONLY when the fans come on after idling for a long time or when warm/hot.


Thanx in advance
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Old 03-16-2010, 02:35 AM   #2
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Have you set them up as electrial load inputs? If you don't do this first the extra effort stuff won't work.
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Old 03-16-2010, 02:54 AM   #3
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Does it do the same thing if you turn the heater on full blast?
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Old 03-16-2010, 04:09 AM   #4
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-Make sure your VE table is set up such that it's not jumping to a different cell when the fans kick on
-Make sure your IAT sensor isn't in the stream of the radiator fan, i.e. heat-soaking the sensor
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:07 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saboteur View Post
Have you set them up as electrial load inputs? If you don't do this first the extra effort stuff won't work.
No clue on how they're set up, but its EXACTLY like everyone elses here using the aux out settings.
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Does it do the same thing if you turn the heater on full blast?
No. That's the thing: NOTHING ELSE causes it to do that aside from the fans.

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-Make sure your VE table is set up such that it's not jumping to a different cell when the fans kick on
-Make sure your IAT sensor isn't in the stream of the radiator fan, i.e. heat-soaking the sensor
I thought it might be the ait but in that case how come its totally fine when they're not on? I mean after they've ALREADY cycled and turned off wouldn't it still be heat soaked since the car is just as hot?
The ait is in front of the radiator too, not on top or behind it, and it is cold to the touch even when the car is fully warmed up, so I have a feeling its not that.

As for cells, every cell AROUND the idle cell is actually quite a bitch richer than the idle cell, cause that was also my initial worry. So if anything it should be getting significantly richer going into a different cell..

FML
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:41 AM   #6
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I don't know about the adaptronic, but the aem has a feature to offset injector duty based on battery voltage. With my 4 headlights I have to use this feature. I also do closed loop fueling at idle to help even more, but without the battery offset feature it'd stall before the closed loop would correct it.

I also idle at 15.5:1, but on purpose.
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:55 AM   #7
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My AFR at idle changes with my MS when my fans come on...electrical load fail.
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
I don't know about the adaptronic, but the aem has a feature to offset injector duty based on battery voltage. With my 4 headlights I have to use this feature. I also do closed loop fueling at idle to help even more, but without the battery offset feature it'd stall before the closed loop would correct it.

I also idle at 15.5:1, but on purpose.
so its not dangerous to idle that lean?
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My AFR at idle changes with my MS when my fans come on...electrical load fail.
****. I'm hoping there's a fix but it doesn't look promising.
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:18 AM   #9
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mine acutally goes richer. from a solid 14.5-14.2 to a solid 13.7-13.5
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:19 AM   #10
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I'd be TOTALLY fine with it if mine went richer.
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:41 AM   #11
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Quote:
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so its not dangerous to idle that lean?
Isn't it ok to be idling in the high 15's even low 16's?
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:43 AM   #12
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Really?

I'm always paranoid every time I go over 14.7, but I'm a huge ***** so that doesn't mean anything
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Old 03-16-2010, 12:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Really?

I'm always paranoid every time I go over 14.7, but I'm a huge ***** so that doesn't mean anything
I guess you have reason to be....considering your previous engine. Even I feel a bit soft after seeing your old engine. Everytime my passenger says "giv'er" I tell them your story
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Old 03-16-2010, 12:58 PM   #14
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lol
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:11 PM   #15
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tune your injector dead time properly.
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:48 PM   #16
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Is that what it is? I have rx7 460's and FOR THE LIFE OF ME can not find the correct dead times for them. Looked around and found some from some other 460cc injectors so its probably not right.


Any ideas where I can find them? Searched here no luck, searched google no luck, don't know where else to look.
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Old 03-16-2010, 02:15 PM   #17
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The opening time of the Rx7 injectors is 1.2ms @ 13v IIRC....is that what you need?
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Old 03-16-2010, 02:29 PM   #18
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Here are the ones I'm using. No idea how spot on or off they are (sorry to post thread link, I can't post pictures at work)
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t42993/
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Old 03-16-2010, 03:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
The opening time of the Rx7 injectors is 1.2ms @ 13v IIRC....is that what you need?

and 12V and 11V and 10V and 14V and 15V and then yes.

I'm not saying it IS the problem, but it could contribute.

have you logged battery voltage when the fans kick on? if it dips a volt, it could affect fuel. Maybe not that much though.

otherwise I'd bet it's just a bad fuel map at loads slightly higher than idle.
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Old 03-16-2010, 03:38 PM   #20
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loads slightly higher than idle are much more rich and I took a shitload of time to smooth everything out so there is no big changes between the cells. the map looks smooth as butter. so if anything it should be getting RICHER like Brains does.

I'll definitely look into the voltage issue, as well as try to find more accurate dead time corrections.

As far s voltage, if that's whats causing it how do I make it stop? Is my alternator bad or what?
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