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More precise throttle transitions.
3 Attachment(s)
Something Andy recently found is a better way to configure the on/off throttle transitions. Non select 420 ecus only.
Originally the wires are red, black, black, black, purple, white, pink, gray You'll change them to red, black, black, black, pink, grey, white, violet. You'll change the 8 pin connector in a different order. Simply press the stops with a screw driver and pull the cables out and put them in the new order. Original https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1336877144 Pull off the 4 wires you'll change. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1336877144 Before you plug them in push the locks back out (the little metal tabs) Then plug them back in in the order above. All done. Plug back into the ecu. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1336877144 This is the entire post from Andy, some of it is non relevant...
Originally Posted by Andy
Weird.
To be honest I've never had bad fuel cause these symptoms. At Time Attack last year, a few engines died, and the tuners blamed bad fuel for that. The said that it was because they got the E85 from the pump instead of in drums from Sucragen (over here it mostly comes from sugar, not corn). But they weren't logging lambda values or knocking so it's hard to tell. It's easy to say it's bad fuel because it's difficult to immediately disprove. I'm really struggling to come up with a mechanism as to how bad fuel would cause the problem. It seems to be an ignition type problem - we are injecting the right milliseconds but the AFR reading is really lean. So if the fuel is really hard to ignite for some reason then that would explain why it's worse when you get on load. But it doesn't explain the RPM dependency. The only thing I can think of that would explain the RPM dependency is intake resonances causing fuel to condense or something like that, but I don't see why this would be different with bad fuel vs good fuel. Can you try to change something for me? I recently had a look at an NB and discovered that the injection phasing isn't optimal on the plugin board. So can you please pop the 4 injector wires (white, violet, grey, pink) out of the 8 pin connector that goes to the ECU, and put them back in the following order: Red (unchanged) Black (unchanged) Black (unchanged) Black (unchanged) Pink Grey White Violet I did this on a factory turbo (your Mazdaspeed Miata, our "SE") and it really helped with throttle transitions. So it should help with your throttle transitions which have always been a bit of a problem, but if it is bad fuel standoff related then this should only help! Please let me know anything else you discover! |
Did you notice any difference ? My 420c is currently out of the car. Transient throttle and tip in has always been a bi0tch on the Adaptronic so this could be good news.
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I like it, it's noticeable. Shifting gears i no longer get a violent jerk due to a slow response for the rich or lean tip in.
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Argh! I have been trying to get rid of that problem since Day one. I thoght I was shocking the MAP sensor or something as it got worse with high boost and have been running max map filtering in v10 with minor improvments. Cant wait to try this.
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Well this is only as good as your predicted map table is. If your predictions map table is bad, this won't fix it.
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Originally Posted by triple88a
(Post 877014)
I like it, it's noticeable. Shifting gears i no longer get a violent jerk due to a slow response for the rich or lean tip in.
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Got some more play time today with the miata...
Switched to a 250 cell map... as well but the wire switch... DO IT. I'd say it's a must for ALL adaptronic users (420 non select of course). |
Does this include the old harness? The ones with no pins to select OEM ECU or Adaptronic idle?
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To your question ^
Originally Posted by Andy
Yes, it's only for those ones with the e420c.
The Select one is closer but I'll make up a firmware change for those because it's only out by one (but in the correct order, just off by 1). |
Originally Posted by triple88a
(Post 878099)
To your question ^
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"Yes, it's only for those ones with the e420c."
Ok I got that. but does it matter which harness you have? I also have that old harness. ..Well there’s no harm to test this.. |
I asked for what the harness.
-quote Andy "OK, well the change applies to all of the e420c boards Smiley" |
Can someone explain what this mod does to the signal / connection?
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Purple = Injector 1
White = Injector 2 Pink = Injector 3 Grey = Injector 4 So it's changing the injector wiring so that when the adaptronic fires injector 1, really it's firing 3... I'd have thought if it was firing the wrong injector at the wrong time it'd never run properly... (Hello BTW, noob alert, 1st post after being registered for 6 years :noob:) |
Ah so the injectors were ordered incorrectly?
Why are 8 wires juggled around and not 4? |
It looks like it, yep. It may be a wiring loom issue with the plug and play looms they supply, I've asked on the adaptronic forum if it applies to any other models than the NB using their pre-built looms.
There's only 4 wires changed, the other 4 are left alone in the 8 pin plug. |
^
Originally Posted by Andy
Changes the injector firing order so that it's matched with the engine!
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How did these ever work properly when they were wired incorrectly? Do you have a link to the original post?
I'm reluctant to make changes to the ECU, but I'll give this a try next week. |
^
Do you have the link to the forum thread? I can't find the thread on the adaptronic.com.au forums. EDIT: Ooops, dgmorr beat me to it. How many degrees out of phase are each of the injectors firing? I wonder if it's a change to optimize the end of injection timing: http://adaptronic.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=5018.0 |
Found the Adaptronic thread: http://adaptronic.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=4997.0
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Thread is ^ page 2 is when Andy comes up with the wire switch. (I did the wire switch after i burned the bad gasoline and my engine was running normally if you were to read the first pages.)
Anyone have a wiring diagram as to which wires are for injector 1-4? |
2 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by triple88a
(Post 878569)
Thread is ^ page 2 is when Andy comes up with the wire switch. (I did the wire switch after i burned the bad gasoline and my engine was running normally if you were to read the first pages.)
Anyone have a wiring diagram as to which wires are for injector 1-4? |
hhmmm new order is 3421.. while before it was 1234 and the NB firing order is 1342.
So basically he moved it 1 cycle before that way it sprays half a revolution before the valve opens. |
Originally Posted by triple88a
(Post 878725)
hhmmm new order is 3421.. while before it was 1234 and the NB firing order is 1342.
So basically he moved it 1 cycle before that way it sprays half a revolution before the valve opens. |
Andy just answered on the Adaptronic forum - this is only affecting NB8A and NB8B cars using their supplied plugin loom for the e420c - any other cars should be right already... :)
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Idling problem Leo? are you trying to get the stock ecu to idle? Did you see my fix in my install writeup? ...2 wires are crossed in the harnesses we got so it wouldnt work for us.
What is your idle problem? |
Originally Posted by triple88a
(Post 879152)
Idling problem Leo? are you trying to get the stock ecu to idle? Did you see my fix in my install writeup? ...2 wires are crossed in the harnesses we got so it wouldnt work for us.
What is your idle problem? |
Is it not steady when the fans kick on or does that not make a difference? You gotta play with the idle controls obviously or perhaps ask Andy how to rewire it to allow your stock ecu to control idle.
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Originally Posted by triple88a
(Post 879174)
Is it not steady when the fans kick on or does that not make a difference? You gotta play with the idle controls obviously or perhaps ask Andy how to rewire it to allow your stock ecu to control idle.
BTW....currently putting my car back together, rebuilt my engine. So I can't play around it until I finish my car. |
Originally Posted by lsc224
(Post 879177)
Yeah I need to play with the idle controls. It's not steady when the ac is turned on. I'll ask Andy if I can rewire it to allow the stock ecu to control idle. Thanks!
I also switched to a 250 cell map. Idle is now much better! |
Slightly OT, but I've been battling my idle since moving the ECU to the track car '90 chassis ('04MSM motor and harness). It dawned on me tonight that the neutral switch is 'talking' to the 1.6 harness and the adaptronic doesn't do any idle control if the neutral (or clutch) isn't in. Anyone with an engine swap with significant wiring work should remember this :idea:...
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Post me your map, i think its an easy fix. There should be a tab to disable the out of gear overwrite. Check near the throttle off overwrite.
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I don't have the laptop with the map handy but I already ran a wire to the neutral switch. Any idea where this tab was? My install instructions are 3 years old so maybe the newer revisions have the option that I haven't noticed. The older instructions were very clear that you needed a neutral/clutch switch to control idle.
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Yeah you don't any more. What Firmware are u running on that thing?
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I'm running whatever was current around the fall of 2010. I have the latest and greatest downloaded but I wanted to get everything sorted before I load it. Too many variables can spoil a party faster than outdated firmware.
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Mine won't start with the new wire configuration
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How many times did you try to start it? i did notice mine was acting up while cranking from a hot start (usually 3rd crank started it) but i didnt know if this was wires or me switching to 250 cells map.
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Maybe 4 times at 10 seconds each. I reverted the changes and started up like normal. Kind of disappointed :facepalm:
Cold start on all attempts as well as the successful one. |
Are your injectors batched during cranking?
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I can't remember, it's been a while since I've had a laptop hooked up. Should they be?
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Just checked and it is batch during cranking. I am guessing it should be this way in order for this to work.
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Originally Posted by dgmorr
(Post 890891)
Mine won't start with the new wire configuration
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Mine has been running the new configuration since i posted this thread. Which ecus and wiring harnesses do u guys have? As to why your car would run 3 miles and then stop.. that makes no sense.
You guys sure you rewired the right plug? |
Originally Posted by triple88a
(Post 891168)
Mine has been running the new configuration since i posted this thread. Which ecus and wiring harnesses do u guys have? As to why your car would run 3 miles and then stop.. that makes no sense.
You guys sure you rewired the right plug? Yep wired the right plug. It's the only plug with 8 pins. |
Wired the right plug as well. E420C with the newer harness I believe (w/ jumpers to select factory or Adaptronic for idle)
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That's the one i'm running with the jumpers for factory idle.
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Ok, I tried it again. This time with the engine at running temps and it runs...better. The idle droop when i jab the throttle off idle is now completely gone. All downshifts are much easier to do as I used to have to really stab the throttle deep. It does take a few more cranking cycles to get running though. I'll have to try it from cold before I keep it permanently. I'm still skeptical....I've gotten used to all these issues that they became the norm.
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So today with my new map it didnt start.. bumped up the cranking fuel 4 points and it started right up. So no this did not cause my bad starting issues.
It's weird as to why it would not start before but now it started and ran better. |
Probably something to do with the engine not being warmed up before. Not sure how changing the injector wiring phase affects starting. I'll try starting it tomorrow after it has been sitting over night.
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Try adding a bit more fuel in the cranking fuel cells (in the correct temperature). I am running VE so i added 4 and it started perfectly.
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Originally Posted by triple88a
(Post 893104)
Try adding a bit more fuel in the cranking fuel cells (in the correct temperature). I am running VE so i added 4 and it started perfectly.
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Originally Posted by triple88a
(Post 893104)
Try adding a bit more fuel in the cranking fuel cells (in the correct temperature). I am running VE so i added 4 and it started perfectly.
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Well i was having issues starting from a hotstart (75+ coolant temp) so thats where i bumped it up. I never had the hot start issue before i changed the injector wires.
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I got a couple pointers from Andy on the Adaptronic forum and so far it's working well. It'll take at least one track day before I'm fully convinced.
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4 Attachment(s)
amazing!
i have been chasing this throttle response issue for quite some time... this fixed the issue about 70%. Now i am seeing more reasonable responses to my map prediction table. V---OLD...vs...New---V |
Originally Posted by dgmorr
(Post 893666)
I got a couple pointers from Andy on the Adaptronic forum and so far it's working well. It'll take at least one track day before I'm fully convinced.
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