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Old 07-24-2009, 04:54 PM   #41
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OH ****! changing that RIGHT NOW!
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Old 07-24-2009, 04:55 PM   #42
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PS: I just can't get over how sexy the car sounds
I am running on stock exhaust for now, and the spool is LOUDDD...kinda sounds like one of those big turbo supra's
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Old 07-24-2009, 04:59 PM   #43
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OK another serious question:
Do you guys just set "closed loop mode" on "rapid learning" in "corrections" and then just drive around? My "set closed loop parameters" as well as set adaptive learning paramenters are configured according to the manual.
Ignition is set at "closed loop". Or should I have it on "rapid learning" or "open loop"?
Also, wtf does "fast tuner" do? Can't really find any info on that window, maybe I missed it.
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Old 07-24-2009, 07:43 PM   #44
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Alright, as if I didn't bore you with enough questions, here's another one:

I'm driving around and the car is staring to get a bit better in the 2500-3500 area. Definitely can feel more torque. AFR's are still rich as hell, but I'd rather start conservative and slowly make my way up.

The car pulls OK from low rpm to about 3500 or 4k. then between 4000-6500 it is just retardedly slow. Afr's are a steady ~11 ish, and boost is a steady 8psi, but the car is just SOOO slow. I mean it takes me like almost a minute to get through that rpm range. THAT slow. Then past 6500 the car just BLASTS!!! I mean afr and boost are exactly the same, but the car just JUMPS forward like it gained an extra 50whp
Now I'm using a tweaked version of ZXtex' map which is tuned for 8psi mbc. Is it the timing or what that spikes up top giving the car all that power? Or is something wrong in my midrange causing it to lose all power? I'll be happy to post the map if yall need to see it.



On a totally different note, its 111 degrees outside today, and after blasting around for 10-15 minutes the car got HOTTTT
Temps were in the 120-125 and this is AFTER I ALREADY adjusted the fans per Steins suggestion. I hit the heat as soon as I saw this, and turned on the ac so the other fan would kick in, and took it easy all the way home. Thank god the car didn't overheat....So I obviously either: 1) have no airflow to the radiator or 2) my hi-speed fan is total CRAP.
Soo, here I am about to go into the garage and get crazy with scissors and a bunch of cardboard to make mockups of the heat shield I need for the top, as well as an undertray for the bottom.

Another quick question: did any of you wire your fans to kick in both at the same time? I'm thinking of doing this as well.
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:30 PM   #45
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Let me see your map, maybe its a timing thing? Its really weird your running into problems in just that rpm range.

You can setup the fan to run on logic instead of just when A/C request happens. I can check that out too when i see your file.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Alright, as if I didn't bore you with enough questions, here's another one:

I'm driving around and the car is staring to get a bit better in the 2500-3500 area. Definitely can feel more torque. AFR's are still rich as hell, but I'd rather start conservative and slowly make my way up.

The car pulls OK from low rpm to about 3500 or 4k. then between 4000-6500 it is just retardedly slow. Afr's are a steady ~11 ish, and boost is a steady 8psi, but the car is just SOOO slow. I mean it takes me like almost a minute to get through that rpm range. THAT slow. Then past 6500 the car just BLASTS!!! I mean afr and boost are exactly the same, but the car just JUMPS forward like it gained an extra 50whp
Now I'm using a tweaked version of ZXtex' map which is tuned for 8psi mbc. Is it the timing or what that spikes up top giving the car all that power? Or is something wrong in my midrange causing it to lose all power? I'll be happy to post the map if yall need to see it.



On a totally different note, its 111 degrees outside today, and after blasting around for 10-15 minutes the car got HOTTTT
Temps were in the 120-125 and this is AFTER I ALREADY adjusted the fans per Steins suggestion. I hit the heat as soon as I saw this, and turned on the ac so the other fan would kick in, and took it easy all the way home. Thank god the car didn't overheat....So I obviously either: 1) have no airflow to the radiator or 2) my hi-speed fan is total CRAP.
Soo, here I am about to go into the garage and get crazy with scissors and a bunch of cardboard to make mockups of the heat shield I need for the top, as well as an undertray for the bottom.

Another quick question: did any of you wire your fans to kick in both at the same time? I'm thinking of doing this as well.
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:33 PM   #46
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I replaced my 2 fans with Spal fans as I needed the room to move the radiator back. But to answer your question (one of them) one fan comes on at 85degC and the second at 90degC "or" if the AC is on, I used the "or" function under "type" on the Aux Out page in WARI. With the tuning I used the drive, log then adjust the map, then drive, log, adjust again to start with. I no my NA is SC but the maps will be similar as I us a NB ICV, the map attached starts easly runs well, I run 6psi and 360cc injectors. Nice work on the engine bay, it’ gladdening to the heart to see someone else making the effort, well done.
Ted
Attached Files
File Type: zip 8-4 rex idle warm up afr.zip (2.2 KB, 27 views)

Last edited by Tedsmx5; 07-25-2009 at 07:15 AM. Reason: attached map file
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Old 07-25-2009, 12:33 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Another quick question: did any of you wire your fans to kick in both at the same time? I'm thinking of doing this as well.
I soldered a wire between the two wires coming off condenser fan and cooling fan relay coils that go to the ecu. Has been working fine for a year or so.

Not sure if it really matters but the GM MAP sensor spec sheet says to mount it above the source so condensation doesn't sit on the sensing device. I didn't do this but I did put a low point in the tubing to keep it out of the sensor.
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Old 07-25-2009, 05:06 AM   #48
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Great, thanx for the inputs guys, keep em coming
Car is already running better.

Today I got a bit of tuning done. Temp enrichments were KILLING me, every time I would set the idle and it would be great, after driving around and temps changing it would be rough. I'd adjust it again, get it good again. Then after turning the car off and letting it cool down and starting it again, the idle would be rough AGAIN
So I turned the "temp enrichments" to 0. Dont know if its right or wrong but well see.
I got the car running more or less "decent" up to 3k rpm or so, then its kinda sluggish to about 4500. at 4500 it just DIES power wise, knock is showing that it just SKYROCKETS and the car falls on its ***. Then, after about 5500 or so it just FLIES. Huge increase in power. Boost and afr's are stable throughout the whole rpm range. (though very rich like mid 10's to low 11's for now).

I'll upload my file in the morning, maybe you guys can check it out and tell me what I'm doing wrong. I'll also try to do a log of it tomorrow to aid in resolving this

Thanx again.
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:34 PM   #49
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:49 PM   #50
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Here is the map I am running right now. Check it out and tell me where I screwed up

*updated in post #60

Last edited by 18psi; 07-29-2009 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:52 PM   #51
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Looks solid to me.
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:53 PM   #52
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Really? Thats good

How do I get the fans to turn on together at the same time btw? I really want to do that.
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:59 PM   #53
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Set another or up on aux-out 7 use your water temp control #10 as one,and set 12 to A/C request. I guess if you wanted them to always turn on together you would have to make a double or. Set aux-out 7 to or and select 9 and 10 as controllers. Then set 9 to or and select #12 and #11 as controls. With 12 set that to A/C request.
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Old 07-25-2009, 11:37 PM   #54
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Fans:
If you view my “8-4 rex idle warm up afr “ file and go to the aux out you will see I have used the Aux 6 output to drive the main fan and Aux 8 to run the AC fan. The aux 8 output will turn on if the water temp reaches 90deg C “or” the AC is on (see I’ve used the blue AUX 9 & 10 as the input functions to control Aux 8). The fans are progressive, the main fan comes on at 88deg C and the second at 90deg C both go off at 84deg C if you set them both to the same on temp you “get the fans to turn on together at the same time” and the second fan will still operate with the AC on.

Your map:
Why is your idle set so high?
Use your live gauges to ensure the trim is at 0 when you start and zero your air temp correction (you don’t want any corrections or trim changing your base map when tuning)
Get your idle right first, at this stage set your PID gain to 0 also set the recovery effort to 0 for the moment, run in fuel control in open loop (you don’t want your ecu adjusting the trim while your tuning). The Mazda ecu PWM frequency is around 450Hz so I have set mine to 500Hz for the ICV (any lower and they buzz).
Next, on the same idle page of WARI program set your “Base Idle Value (coolant temp)” lower than you need to idle.
Use the “minium value” in the “Overall control panel to raise and lower the cars idle while you tune (just like you would on a carburetted engine with the idle stop screw) . Then tune the map at idle to 14.7 afr, put the headlights on high beam to tune the idle under load, also if you need to lower or raise the injector time. Lower or raise the surrounding cells (left, right, up and down) as they have an overall effect on the cell your working on. You will have to go back and forth a few times to get it right so be patient, mine idle at 850rpm all the time.
I hope I’m not telling you how to suck eggs here as I don’t know your knowledge base (mine was 0 (on ecu’s) when I started but I am an electronics tech which helps a lot)
When on the tuning page if you press the space bar the active fuel cell will highlight in grey.
Setting up the AC and electrical load next time.
Good luck, the journey is half the fun.
Ted
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:47 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I got the car running more or less "decent" up to 3k rpm or so, then its kinda sluggish to about 4500. at 4500 it just DIES power wise, knock is showing that it just SKYROCKETS and the car falls on its ***. Then, after about 5500 or so it just FLIES. Huge increase in power. Boost and afr's are stable throughout the whole rpm range. (though very rich like mid 10's to low 11's for now).
Did you ever turn off the knock sensing retard like I said earlier?

I have the same knock spike at 4300. I don't think it's really knock, just something funky. If the retard is set to 1* per 20 knock, it will pull like 7* of timing until it gets through that patch. That's why it takes off again at 5500.

Turn it off, try it. If it pulls fine through the 4000's, that's the problem. Basically, I upped mine to 1* per 70 instead of 20.
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Old 07-26-2009, 05:34 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedsmx5 View Post
Fans:
If you view my “8-4 rex idle warm up afr “ file and go to the aux out you will see I have used the Aux 6 output to drive the main fan and Aux 8 to run the AC fan. The aux 8 output will turn on if the water temp reaches 90deg C “or” the AC is on (see I’ve used the blue AUX 9 & 10 as the input functions to control Aux 8). The fans are progressive, the main fan comes on at 88deg C and the second at 90deg C both go off at 84deg C if you set them both to the same on temp you “get the fans to turn on together at the same time” and the second fan will still operate with the AC on.

Your map:
Why is your idle set so high?
Use your live gauges to ensure the trim is at 0 when you start and zero your air temp correction (you don’t want any corrections or trim changing your base map when tuning)
Get your idle right first, at this stage set your PID gain to 0 also set the recovery effort to 0 for the moment, run in fuel control in open loop (you don’t want your ecu adjusting the trim while your tuning). The Mazda ecu PWM frequency is around 450Hz so I have set mine to 500Hz for the ICV (any lower and they buzz).
Next, on the same idle page of WARI program set your “Base Idle Value (coolant temp)” lower than you need to idle.
Use the “minium value” in the “Overall control panel to raise and lower the cars idle while you tune (just like you would on a carburetted engine with the idle stop screw) . Then tune the map at idle to 14.7 afr, put the headlights on high beam to tune the idle under load, also if you need to lower or raise the injector time. Lower or raise the surrounding cells (left, right, up and down) as they have an overall effect on the cell your working on. You will have to go back and forth a few times to get it right so be patient, mine idle at 850rpm all the time.
I hope I’m not telling you how to suck eggs here as I don’t know your knowledge base (mine was 0 (on ecu’s) when I started but I am an electronics tech which helps a lot)
When on the tuning page if you press the space bar the active fuel cell will highlight in grey.
Setting up the AC and electrical load next time.
Good luck, the journey is half the fun.
Ted
Dude I love all this advise, keep it coming
I will definitely dive into it again on monday taking all the advise into consideration and the next map I post will hopefully have lots of improvement.
Thanx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post
Did you ever turn off the knock sensing retard like I said earlier?

I have the same knock spike at 4300. I don't think it's really knock, just something funky. If the retard is set to 1* per 20 knock, it will pull like 7* of timing until it gets through that patch. That's why it takes off again at 5500.

Turn it off, try it. If it pulls fine through the 4000's, that's the problem. Basically, I upped mine to 1* per 70 instead of 20.
Actually like a complete ******* idiot I totally forgot to do that. I will. I think you are right: car is pulling massive timing in the midrange due to that knock spike. I dont hear ANY knock at all and know the car is running super conservative, yet I can totally FEEL it completely pull all power(timing) away during that spike and then BAM! It comes back and the car surges forward. I'll def make sure to correct that.



THANX GUYS!! You will make a decent miata tuner out of me yet
I'll be posting more questions as I go along
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Old 07-26-2009, 11:25 AM   #57
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Air trims are fine and recommended for tuning, because they create whats called an identity function between AFR and air air temperature. What it does is trim the air fuel so that regardless of what temperature it is outside for that given pulsewidth in your map the AFR is ALWAYS the same. By zeroing these air temp correction trims you can tune the car on two different occasions and get two different correct tunes... but only for the day you tuned it on.
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:22 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR View Post
Set another or up on aux-out 7 use your water temp control #10 as one,and set 12 to A/C request. I guess if you wanted them to always turn on together you would have to make a double or. Set aux-out 7 to or and select 9 and 10 as controllers. Then set 9 to or and select #12 and #11 as controls. With 12 set that to A/C request.
OK, I am completely confused by this. Here is how my outputs are right now:



Ted has his set up like this:


And his fans come on together.

Basically that is what I want: for them to both come on together. It is over 100F here in california and will stay this way for months. I NEED as much cooling as I can get. I already have an OR in there, from what I read in your post I need 2 more OR's? What am I missing? It doesn't make any sense.
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:34 PM   #59
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Just send the file over, I'll put it together for you. I know its confusing!
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:46 PM   #60
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here it is. can't pm it to you since it wont let me attach. I hope this is good enough. or I can email it to ya.
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