Trying to idle my 460's HELP!!! - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 06-04-2009, 10:21 PM   #1
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Default Trying to idle my 460's HELP!!!

Ok, so I finally have time to play with the miata again and want to get this bitch started and running on the 460's. It started and idled decently with the stock injectors using Steins (stock injectors) map. Hell it even drove around on it for a tiny bit so I was quite pleased.

Of course there are problems now, since I put in the 460's. I contacted Travis about getting a map that will start/idle them. I got this map (attached) which seemed not to work at all. The car would just crank and crank without even considering starting.

I then switched back over to the stock injectors map and gave it a try. It STARTED which was really surprising, but idled like **** and would die in a few seconds. I then changed all the fuel falues at idle/no boost to "1" which got it to idle better and the wbo2 to read in the 12-14 ish area. Tried to lean it out more to get it to idle right but "1" is as low as it goes, and I understand I'll have to change the injector settings to be able to lean em out more (obviously, since its still thinking its on stockers).

I then copied over dead time corrections that I got in another email from Travis
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After doing this the car would not start at all. After a few tries and going back to the stock injectors map I tried starting it again and think I fried the starter motor since all it does now is click and wont turn. ( I know the bat is good since its being helped by the charger and "gauges" show good signal).

Next, my wbo2. Its connected to the wiring going to the radio. Source, ground, etc. When I crank the car the wbo2 shuts off and restarts and starts working only AFTER the car is started. So I cant see what its reading while cranking. On top of that, it used to communicate with the adap before, and now all its showing in "gauges" under afr is: 17.9 - open. Every now and then it goes to 18 or so, then back down to 17.9, while the gauge actually shows the true afr. Wtf is going on there? does anyone know? I reflashed to the most current version of "wari", and the problem is still there. I messed with the wiring and its all done exactly like before when it worked, yet still no communications with the adap.

I am totally lost. I'll go back to reading the adaptronic instruction manual and the threads on there trying to figure out WTF can I do to get this thing started.

I dont understand why I cant simply "scale" the injectors and use the previous map that worked. For the record: I have rx7 pnp 460's cleaned and tested by deatschwerks. Can ANYONE help me figure out wtf I'm doing wrong?

Either that, or send me their most current map but help me rescale it to the 460's? I know almost all you guys are using the 600's, so am I alone in using 460's?

As you can see, I am a complete ******* failure at electronics, so
HELLP PLEASE!! Or someone just kill me now
-Vlad
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:36 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I know almost all you guys are using the 600's, so am I alone in using 460's?
I've got 460's that I haven't installed yet.

I'd start off with ZX's or Stein's 600 map and scale the master trim to +20%** and go into the cranking fuel tab and multiply each setting by 1.2**. Or better yet see if they'll rescale it for you and give it a try.

Last edited by y8s; 06-08-2009 at 11:12 AM. Reason: ** smaller injectors need more pulsewidth and we dont want to confuse people.
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Old 06-05-2009, 12:50 PM   #3
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Yea, thats before I knew that dwell time wasn't included in the cranking figures. You need to up all your values by 1.5ms or more on the cranking fuel. I agree with him though. Just download a 600 map from www.boundaryengineering.com/instructions.zip and scale it up 20 percent or so. This should run fine, but it maybe a little lean on the cranking cycle.

Last edited by TravisR; 06-08-2009 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:39 PM   #4
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Thanx guys

I am taking off my starter to fix/replace it and should have the car ready to start again by tonight. I will try your suggestions.
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:37 PM   #5
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I'm pretty sure you guys mean +20% on the fuel, not -20%. Smaller injectors need a longer pulse to give the same amount of fuel.
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:25 PM   #6
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Yea... Way to start a land slide there SV
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:49 PM   #7
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oops
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Old 06-07-2009, 07:13 PM   #8
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Any progress?

I installed mine yesterday only to find out one is stuck open and one is stuck closed. I was able to find a leak in the exhaust manifold when fuel came running out of it.
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Old 06-07-2009, 07:46 PM   #9
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I sell some nice deatschwerks. You can load one of the maps and go driving
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Old 06-07-2009, 08:35 PM   #10
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There is progress, though its not nearly as much as I like. I took of the starter and its a goner. Tried to pick up one at a local yard but didnt get there in time. So I'll have to go pick it up tomorrow. Will update as soon as I get her to crank.
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Old 06-08-2009, 12:27 AM   #11
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Once someone gets a 460 map put together please forward it to me in email. I'll include it with the others.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR View Post
Once someone gets a 460 map put together please forward it to me in email. I'll include it with the others.
I know Ismael was going to be installing 440s in his. I'll let him know you are after a map.
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Old 06-08-2009, 11:13 AM   #13
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fixed sv's post just in case.

also I have a relatively reasonable 550cc base map but travis, you may only want the fuel values and nothing else.
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Old 06-09-2009, 06:35 AM   #14
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So I go to install the new starter today, and looking carefully at the oil feed line (where it connects to the block via a "t") and notice it has some oil on it. I trace it up and see that it is all kinked/messed up. I guess when I put it on and screwed it on I turned it in a different direction a little too much and kinked it. Boy am I glad I notice this now and now a couple weeks later with the turbo blown due to insufficient/nonexistent oiling. Anyhow, I took it off and un-kinked it and will be reinstalling it tomorrow along with the starter. I have a pretty laid back day tomorrow so I definitely plan to have her up and running at least by the end of the day.

*crosses fingers*
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Old 06-09-2009, 03:44 PM   #15
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You can say that you are lucky, it wouldn't be the first time to wreck a turbo or a complete engine.
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Old 06-10-2009, 03:01 AM   #16
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ALRIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So FINALLY today I re-installed the oil feed line correctly. Go to crank the car and its FLIPPIN OUT!! Just with the key in the ignition and in the "on" position all the lights are blinking and the speedometer is violently jumping around. I am scared shitless and call my dad. He says its the battery. Sure enough, the battery decided to take a **** on me

So after a trip to all the local auto stores I find out no one has a miata battery. So I go to wal mart and buy a DURALAST that is roughly the same dimentions, and 540/540 cranking amps/cold start and pop it in. YEP. Car is back to normal.
I got the 600cc map and made the adjustments you guys recommended.
So I go to crank it, and after about 6 seconds of turning and turning it finally STARTS However, it ran like absolute **** with the idle all sorts of messed up, so I imported the stock injectors fuel map into this map and it definitely started to run better.
I am however getting that crazy compressor sound that I know has something to do with the idle settings.

Travis, If you could help me figure it out, since I know last time as soon as I told you about it you explained to me how to fix it within 2 seconds lol. I messed with the "Idle" air control properties and no matter what I change them to it still makes the crazy sound.

But hey, it runs so I'm happy.

Included is a quick log of it

And lastly: the wb02 sensor on your guys' maps is set to "UEGO 0-3v". Shouldnt it be the other one? The "UEGO 0-5" or whatnnot? The problem I am having with that is that the readouts are different...W T F!!! The gauge at idle reads around 11'ish, while the "Gauges" screen and log reads mid 12's....REALLY CURIOUS AS TO WTF COULD BE THE PROBLEM HERE CAUSING THE DIFFERENT READOUTS, AND HOW IT CAN BE FIXED.


Any suggestions?
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Last edited by 18psi; 06-10-2009 at 03:18 AM.
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Old 06-10-2009, 03:17 AM   #17
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So its running now?
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Old 06-10-2009, 03:21 AM   #18
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YEP Not great but its running. Check my edit in post #16....Check out the log too, maybe you have some suggestions? I know I need to lean it up a bit more, since its idling 12.5 or so
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Old 06-10-2009, 03:46 AM   #19
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For some reason I downloaded the log but didn't read the post.

I'd just use the master trim to scale it back to a decent afr. Note that number then put the offset back to 0 and go to the tuning table and highlight everything and scale it by the number you that amount.

I'm not sure what to say about the discrepancy between you gauge and the "gauges" screen. Do you have anything hooked up to the analog input? If not I would select none and see if that fixes it.

There is something funky going on with your map readings too. Did you mess with the wires at all? When I was swapping wires I managed to break the TPS wires inside the heat shrink.

I decided against having my 460s cleaned again and ordered some 600s from deatschwerks.
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:39 AM   #20
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Jeeze why didn't you order some from me?

You still having all the problems? What is still wrong with the car?

Just looking at the logs your MAP sensor isn't hooked up right. Check your wiring.
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