F/IC MAF Volt Clamp?
 

In the setup tab, what volt did you set the MAF clamp to? Im having abit of issues and I think the ECU is trying to override the F/IC. Its a 2004 miata supercharged with a U2 ubercharger.
I have a bucking issue in the 2800-3200 and 4500 rpm range.

If it would help I can post my Base map and Logged data. The data has been coverted to AEMLog.

thanks
Chris

i tried attaching them to my post but no luck. If you want to look at them, PM your email addy and ill send them.

Sorry man; not many Fic users in this forum. Let's see if someone can answer your questions.

Thanks man,
I have become one less user also. I put my voodoo box back in untill I figure out what direction I want to go next.

Chris

Chris, go with the MS. You won't regret it.

I would love to, but I have a 2004. I want to go full stand alone if i go MS, But i know nothing about building it for the 2004. Untill i fully understand the mods i wont touch it. Unless someone offers to build it and do the mods. (i dont see that happening)

Chris

Setup_MAF
load input: MAF
mode: percent
max voltage clamp: 4.43

Had to add 13.3% to entire MAF table to compensate for the AEMFIC pulling down the MAF output...

Hope this helps, although it seems the only thing in common with our setups is they are both FI. See my sig.

That about where I had everything set at. But I think I was running the MAF clamp at 4.5. I also had MAF table at 14%.
I had tons of bucking at 2800 RPM and 4500 RPM. I was logging AFR data and INJ duty cycle. At those 2 RPM points AFR and INJ duty went nuts.
I just pulled all of it out and put the FM voodoo back in.
The car just was totaled so I wont have a chance to find out why this was happening.


Chris L

Hmmmm.... I just purchased an AEM from RIPRACER, setup for a 2003. Im currently looking over the maps and they are set at 4.5 and 14.1%.

The unit will be installed hopefully before the weekend.... I will say that I had this same issue with my Xede. Im really thinking that it is an O2 clamp issue.

The AEM has and option to send out a fake 14.1 o2 signal. Maybe turn that on and see if the car is pulling fuel on you.

Once it is installed I will be able to help more, that is if I have the same problem.


Are any of you controlling the VVT with the AEM... I would strongly suggest letting the factory ecu control it as Dynos have proven as long as it changes some where in the 3K range you will not see and performance gains or losses. So it really is pointless to mess with it as the factory setting is pretty good.

Still not installed, I have my PNP wire harness but no time to play with checking the tune on the car.

After looking into the tune of the previous owner on this AEM FIC my head exploded............

I have no idea what the hell its doing, I will probably start my own tune, with the v3 firmware installed



if you have 550cc injectors what is your injector map pulling at idle... from my calculations it should be 50% while out of boost, to put it in the stock range? Right?
so why is this tune only pulling -16%

I hope we get more FIC guy in the forums soon.

The F/iC is really quite simple to set up. I used mine to delete the MAF in my 1990, and to run 440cc injectors. Worked great.

Do you have your cal file, I would love to see how much fuel you are pulling for the 440cc injectors...

I really dont understand the cal file on mine, but I have yet to plug it in and see what it does.

Also you mention adding 14% to the MAF map to make up for the pull down resistor, but if i upgrade to V3.0 I no longer have this map, so what then?

Just a few explanations about my previous post...

Quote by Mikeymx5:
"Also you mention adding 14% to the MAF map to make up for the pull down resistor..."

You kind of misunderstood what I was trying to say there...

Quote by secretsquirrel:
"Had to add 13.3% to entire MAF table to compensate for the AEMFIC pulling down the MAF output..."

Having the AEMFIC on such a sensitive signal line needs to be compensated for EXACTLY on the MAF table to get your idle right - remember that in closed-loop the ECU will be trying to adjust idle afr from the stock O2 sensor signal - this is a "code-thrower" if not correct (there is a large difference between 13.3 and 14 percent when it comes to MAF signal). 13.3% was just the number that brought my MAF to "pre-tapped" level.

Quote by Mikeymx5:
"if you have 550cc injectors what is your injector map pulling at idle... from my calculations it should be 50% while out of boost, to put it in the stock range? Right?"

Pretty close - I'm at -46.1% "across the board" for anything out of boost with 550cc (the ECU is still dealing with fuel at this point). The exact percent will be unique to the car & mods.

Quote by Mikeymx5:
"The AEM has and option to send out a fake 14.1 o2 signal. Maybe turn that on and see if the car is pulling fuel on you."

How I handled "lean tip in" was to offset the O2 voltage on the O2 map by -0.281v at boost onset and higher. This is without a resistor on the O2 tap line.


I figured out all these settings by using a VERY good scan tool (Dyno-Scan) to see and write down all the important signal voltages and patterns - before I installed the AEMFIC. This was to know exactly what the ECU was seeing in normal operation prior to installing something that was going to intercept and/or modify all the important engine sensors. This is the key to keeping the ECU happy and not throwing codes (and also that I wired everything correctly - there is no wiring diagram for the 99-00). I've been very happy with the AEMFIC especially since my main goal was too pass OBDII with no hassles. At present, I have a pretty strong "street tune" but have yet to make it to the dyno - I know there is some HP in my ignition map!

Thank you.

I purchased a used FIC that was suppost to be tuned for my car and my setup, but havent installed it simply because I do not like what i am seeing in the Cal file.

In fact at the "0" line on the table the injectors were adding 6%.

By the MAF set at 14.1% for a pull down I just ment the same thing just used the wrong words, did nt mean to confuse.... but im still wondering what to do on the version 3 firmware that doesnt have this in the cal file.

Dont mean to hijack the thread but can you send me your cal file, even with you having an 99-00 I think that yours would be a better ball park map to start tuning off of.

Also anyone know how to connect the LC1 and keep the factory 02 in the +021 connection. I assume that I will just wire it in the +022 location am I right?

Unfortunately I already have the turbo and the xede installed. I figure that i will do most of my tuning just like I did the xede by holding the car in closed loop and watching the fuel trims, and adjusting until they reach 0.

I want to completely remove any MAF tuning, other than adjusting for the voltage drop of the MAF and the AEM. Later I might try to simulate the MAF but not until I have a good tune. I dont like MAF tuning because you have know Idea what you are doing to the factory ECU, some times with the xede I had to add fuel to remove it, that really is annoying, with injector duty I can see it and adjust it on the fly, much better.

PM me an email and I'll send my current cal (my postcount is will not allow me to PM you). Note: I am still running ver. 2 of software/firmware...

Thanks Secret squirrel. I will probably take the car out this weekend for a street tune.Your maps are much much better, I have a hard time believing that the one that came with the FIC would even work "."

[img=http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3808/gfuelmap.th.gif]

I'd say if the fuel map looks like that, there is surely something wrong with the MAF circuit, MAF map, tuner, etc. Can you email me back your original cal file - I'm very curious if there are conflicts between maps, i.e. add fuel on the FUEL map & take away fuel on the MAF map...

Ill send it out... the MAF map"S" are pretty straight forward, one has 14.1 in all cells... this sounds about right, the second starts at 0 and gradually moves to 4.7 in the opposite corner. There is no correlation between the two maps that I have found. Not to mention that you should never have a large jump from cell to cell, it leads to very unsmooth acceleration.

Hey I just found the missing second MAF map in the V3 software, why are there two of these maps? is there a purpose? Seems very redundant.

Boy sorry I really have stolen this thread, but there don't seem to be many FIC guys here.

Got this installed last night, and I have the exact same issue? Set the 02 map to 0, MAF map to 14.1% all cells (the car wasnt happy with 13%) Fuel is at -41%. At idle the car started beautifully!!! But if I increase the RPMs slowly at around 3K the car will buck.

Im only working out of boost at the moment.

Quote by Mikeymx5:
"Ill send it out... "

If you would have followed through with what you said you were going to do...I might help you out with your bucking issues...99-00 versus 01+ vvt

Just noticed that the email had bounced, Ill send it again later today.

your email keeps bouncing, I sent one with out an attachment to see what happens.

Ill take some screen shots later today, once i figure out how to connect the Wide band, since my harness appears to not have a Aux in wire :(

Sucks that you did not solve this, my 2003 is having the same problem, I tried tuning it out but can seem to figure out what the ecu is doing. The AFR just go nuts, and then they are fine after. This is even out of boost even though I masked it by playing with the MAF signal.


Why does the FIC need a voltage clamp? My xede works fine and it doesnt clam the MAF at all.

For now I returned to the xede until I can figure out what is going on.

You should read and understand "FIC Tuning Tips" and "Xede Tuning Guide" before comparing the two:

http://forum.aempower.com/forum/inde....0;attach=3700

- it explains the purpose of the MAF voltage clamp with the FIC.

http://www.xede.com.au/files/XEDE%20...20Version).pdf


Comparing these piggybacks is like comparing apples to oranges.


Personally since I was going to be the one tuning my car, I much preferred the more straight forward manner the AEMFIC handles fueling - by intercepting injector signal AFTER the ECU versus the Xede spoofing the MAF signal going INTO the ECU. See page 11 in the Xede tuning guide in regards to how timing is affected by changing the loads that the ECU sees. From FIC tuning tips: "Modern ECU’s can detect even the smallest changes in calibration of these signals." i.e. causing CELs and even having the ECU "fight back" your tuning. My thought was: why try to force or trick the ECU into doing something it's not programmed to do (Xede), when the ECU doesn't even need to know what is going on "behind it's back" (AEMFIC).

Many issues like bucking are ECU "fight backs".

The one thing the FIC itself does not do is advance timing, but you can use the FIC to spoof input signals to the ECU to get the ECU to advance timing....

You really need to know how different these two are and understand "how they work" before you start tuning...

Read everything you can get your hand on, digest, and really understand how this stuff works, and you WILL be successful at tuning & troubleshooting - that's how my dumb ass did it - of course with my education to all things turbo via miataturbo.net!

Good Luck...

I understand the difference in the units, it one of the reasons I wanted to change to the FIC.

Bad part is that I dont have a stock car to take original logs from. So Im having to start out tuning with 550cc injectors and a turboed engine.

Whats really getting me is Im having the bucking problems out of the boost area. Im just taking the car line by line on the fuel map and trying to tune it before going to the next level.

Do you thing that if i log the MAF voltage at high rpms and no boost, it would give me a pretty good place to set the Voltage clamp? I speaking of an equivalent clamp voltage of a non boosted car.

The MAF clamp voltage would be the highest voltage the ECU would see when normally aspirated (high rpm/high load). Tough to get that right with the turbo on the car even with wastegate trickery - the turbo will still be a factor, larger injectors are not. One thing though...how are you reading the MAF voltage? Through the ECU with scan tool, FIC live display, or FIC logger? It is the ECU that you want to keep happy...

Do you have a logging scan tool that would enable you to see what event/events are taking place when the bucking occurs? Maybe VVT transition?

Just so you guys have a larger feedback pool to work with. I didn't even hook my F/IC upto the MAF as most of the other Miata tuning solutions don't either. Other cars need a clamp but the Miata doesn't, unless you are running more boost with the F/IC then you probably should be. The buck you are seeing upon entering boost is related to the o2 clamp. I had the exact same problem with my setup and to took a bit to work out. I don't have the files on this computer but, I'll try and post some images soon.

Hmm, thanks... I havent had time to plug this back in and play with it but I guess I could easily remove the MAF connection to eliminate it as being a problem. I think that you are right about not requiring the MAF connection unless you are wanting to emulate it to remove it.

Sorry about the delay I've been traveling ALOT! I created a thread with my cal file in it.

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t34968/#post407021

great thanks, Im working on mine and Ill post it up as soon as I have something working.

So I have been playing with the car, if I set the MAF clamp to 3.38 I have problems with lean out under 3K rpm in low gear acceleration
If I set the MAF clamp to 4-4.5 I get the bucking at 3k

I really need a stock 2003 to take some reading from so i can set my base map up.

Is there a way to make to 02 map to not touch the 02 signal until in boost and then send a fake 14.1.

I see that I can set a fake voltage, where 0 is no change and a number is a voltage out.
Or I can set a pulse out, but I dont want to fake the 14.1 out of boost.

For now I think that I will set the fake 14.1 02 in all cells just to eliminate it from the tuning equation.

Keep in mind that Ill my comments refer to 14.7 psia and below... I havent started tuning in boost because of map problems.

You don't need to clamp the map on a miata, you will not gain anything by doing so.

OK for all you 2003 Miatas - you must run firmwares 300.hex and z110.hex. Apparently mine was running z114.hex.

This fixed the stumble at 3K rpms. Im now actually getting somewhere in tuning. they have very poor documentation on what slave version you should be running.

they have very poor documentation on what slave version you should be running

Your 100% right they should specify in the software or the manual what version the slave needs to be. Don't forget to share your maps as you progress.

I think that I am going to pull the MAF connection off the FIC. I have tried all values between 13-16% and I run into the same problem every time. At idle I can get a perfect fuel trim, but around 5000 rpm the car is rich.

I noticed that as i pass 3K rpm the car will start to jump to rich - it appears that this is when the car is moving out of closed loop. The AFR will slowly drop until Im at 10.1 at 7K rpms. To fix this i had to make my fuel map remove more fuel as the RPMs more up.. I only talking about in vacuum at the moment.

Looking at my logs my MAF signal has increased over half a volt in the upper range do to the added 13%, I have a feeling that this is not right and the correct way to do this is to start at idle with 13% and reduce down towards 0% as you start to reach 5volts from the MAF.

I agree with another user on the forums that left his MAF disconnected from the FIC.... if it is not doing anything why added to the pool of variables. Later if I decided to simulate the MAF I will rewire it back in, but at least I can then know if it is a MAF table that needs to be fixed vs a fuel and/or MAF table combined.

Being an Xede user I can tell you that the ECU doesn't require a voltage clamp, the xede would some times add 5% to the MAF to get the correct fuel, So I'm sure that there is plenty of MAP on the Factory ECU to handle the MAF under boost.

I will post my cal once I have something worth presenting.

So pulling the MAF connection made it a little easier to tune, but my car still has the rich spike right at 3K RPM and its perfectly fine after 3500

Dont know whats going on, but with out the MAF connected the spikes are much smaller that I cant feel them while driving.

Did notice some RPM spikes in the logs, dont know what that it all about, but it may be my problem.

Is anyone having to run a restriction on the map sensor feed. I forgot that i have one on my gauge to clean up needle shake. I see a similar problem in the logs, where the pressure will spike for no apparent reason.