On the spoiler discussion: It seems like they can make good down force at low speeds but have excessive drag at higher speeds (good for autoX). So how would a DRS (actuate the spoiler flat to reduce drag at high speed straights) on a rear spoiler similar to the BlackBird one compare to a APR 2D wing on a track. Could this be a best of bet world solution assuming the control system is well tuned and the actuation is sufficiently quick. This is a project I've been considering tackling in the future.
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Originally Posted by cyotani
(Post 1178328)
On the spoiler discussion: It seems like they can make good down force at low speeds but have excessive drag at higher speeds (good for autoX). So how would a DRS (actuate the spoiler flat to reduce drag at high speed straights) on a rear spoiler similar to the BlackBird one compare to a APR 2D wing on a high speed track. This is a project I've been considering tackling in the future.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1414181575 JOES Racing Products 25983 |
I ran a spoiler at ~35* (fairly steep) at many full-size tracks and up to about 130mph. I saw more downforce from a COT wing (which is a relatively low-downforce, low-drag design). YMMV?
A much better avenue to explore IMO is a wing that will produce all the downforce desired which actuates to a shallow angle on the straights. Keith Tanner has been playing with this type of system: https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...ng-test-74913/ |
Originally Posted by OGRacing
(Post 1178329)
you need a wind slider -
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1414181575 JOES Racing Products 25983 But hardware aside... I'm considered more about the actual theory of a DRS spoiler miata than the hardware side of things at the moment |
Originally Posted by ThePass
(Post 1178332)
I ran a spoiler at ~35* (fairly steep) at many full-size tracks and up to about 130mph. I saw more downforce from a COT wing (which is a relatively low-downforce, low-drag design). YMMV?
A much better avenue to explore IMO is a wing that will produce all the downforce desired which actuates to a shallow angle on the straights. Keith Tanner has been playing with this type of system: https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...ng-test-74913/ |
Originally Posted by OGRacing
(Post 1178334)
i'm never listening to roman again... that's for sure. :/
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Originally Posted by ThePass
(Post 1178332)
I ran a spoiler at ~35* (fairly steep) at many full-size tracks and up to about 130mph. I saw more downforce from a COT wing (which is a relatively low-downforce, low-drag design). YMMV?
A much better avenue to explore IMO is a wing that will produce all the downforce desired which actuates to a shallow angle on the straights. Keith Tanner has been playing with this type of system: https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...ng-test-74913/ what you just described is drag reduction system. More downforce when you need it, less drag when you don't |
Woops one inacuracy in my previous post:
What I meant to say was that Keith's been experimenting with actuators on wings, but not quite the same function as I suggested. His is a version that operates as an air brake, whereas I'd like to see a wing that decreases angle by a method of driver-controlled input on the straights to r educe drag. |
Originally Posted by ThePass
(Post 1178338)
Woops one inacuracy in my previous post:
What I meant to say was that Keith's been experimenting with actuators on wings, but not quite the same function as I suggested. His is a version that operates as an air brake, whereas I'd like to see a wing that decreases angle by a method of driver-controlled input on the straights to r educe drag. Ya I was wondering why keith went with an air brake system. Maybe it was easier control system to implement based off brake pressure or something. |
Originally Posted by cyotani
(Post 1178337)
So if the spoiler had more Down force at those high speeds it most likely has more drag. If your not traction limited on the straight why not use DRS on a spoiler to reduce your Down force and therefore reduce your drag as well to help use more of your power for acceleration rather than overcoming the drag force.
what you just described is drag reduction system. More downforce when you need it, less drag when you don't Also, there are triple-digit turns aplenty at the racetrack. I wouldn't be too excited about a spoiler system that decreases angle according to speed, and leaves me with an unbalanced car in the high speed sweepers. -Ryan |
Originally Posted by ThePass
(Post 1178341)
You may be misreading my post. I'm saying even at 35*, the spoiler did not seem to provide the same downforce that a wing did.
Also, there are triple-digit turns aplenty at the racetrack. I wouldn't be too excited about a spoiler system that decreases angle according to speed, and leaves me with a loose car in the high speed sweepers. -Ryan Yup, I considered that issue. For mid corner stability I was planning on having steering angle as one of the control inputs. ie: do not actuate flat when steering angle is greater than X degrees. |
Back to the OP's question:
It sounds like a 2D wing works best if you can get it high enough above the vehicle to see an un-disruption air stream (ie: at level or above the hard top) The reason for the 3D wing's shape is to attempt to optimize the airfoil shape for the varying streamline directions closer to the trunk lid, caused by air flowing over the car's body. see the video bellow for a good explanation. :bigtu: |
i see no video :(
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Originally Posted by OGRacing
(Post 1178349)
i see no video :(
idk works for me. "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeKKzFSNRFo]APR 2D wing SuperMiata Crusher - YouTube" |
looks like 3D for me. did everyone see that there is a new gt250 wing out. seemed to have substantially more downforce and allot less drag.
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Here is a good tech article fro APR of the 3D wing. They use a 15 degree greater Angle of attack increase at the outer edge compared to the inner. It's really hard to say which is better without air tunnel testing for your specific vehicle. Personally, I would go with the 2D wing mounted higher up.
http://www.aprperformance.com/index....sk=view&id=181 A good visual of the air streamlines: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1414189929 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1414189929 |
So concensus is gtc300 ?
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Originally Posted by greddygalant
(Post 1178434)
So concensus is gtc300 ?
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Originally Posted by MX5JER
(Post 1178490)
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