BEGi Bell Engineering Group's terrible intake manifold
12-22-2015, 07:00 PM
#1
Newb
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BEGi Bell Engineering Group's terrible intake manifold
Dear Miata owners,
I am really upset with the product BEGi sent me recently after 2 and a half months wait. I ordered an intake for my 1999 Miata. Part of the instructions on their website is to specify which throttle body you intend use so that the flange can be fitted to its specs. The Skunk2 64mm Throttle Body is sold by their business yet the flange they had made was no where near usable for it. There is no metal support on the flange to cover the idle screw passageway. So the idle screw wouldn't be adjustable and suck all the air it wanted. See photos FYI, a whole batch of flanges were made wrong.
I did a test fit of the manifold to see IF there were any othe issues. When there is one, there are bound to be many more. And behold, the angle of the flange is off and cockeyed to about negative 30 degrees. The plenum is welded crooked. The front of the plenum where the TB mounts is sits so low compared to the back. And because of the shady craftmanship/engineering, there is no room for the IAC, idle air control valve!! Really? Bell Engineering? 750 bucks for this!! See photos
What you seen on their website is not what you get. The runners on the actual intake that you will get are way shorter. Without telling you this, I believed they changed the length of the runners so the intake wouldn't interfere with the fuel tubing located near by. There is no visible transition of the runner design like you see in their website photos. The runners are trumpet/horns squeezed into ovals. This new design most likely lead to the cockeyed plenum. There were other small discrepancies that I won't mention because I have a dremel and can fix them. Me and Mr Dremel going to work overtime on this bee-atch!!
Customer service is lacking. They will only respond when something is really wrong on their end. Keeping you informed isn't part of their business model. I would not employ their services until the business and products reach a respectable point in quality. That is not the case presently.
UPDATE: Got an email from BEGi. They informed me, "I can certainly understand your frustration. No, the flange should not have been angled. I will mention it to Corky. And, it would get fixed with the new flange being welded on. For what it is worth, he has never made one like this before. These intake manifolds are not designed to be used with an IAC, and there are no provisions to mount one, nor do we advertise that it will be there. It can be done, but again, we do not make provisions for that with this Intake Manifold. Let me know when you get the flange and plan to get it fixed. We will pay a reasonable amount to fix it."
How do you fix a drooping plenum, is but to start over from scratch. And the throttle body has the provisions for a IAC which has nothing to do with a BEGi intake manifold!
I am really upset with the product BEGi sent me recently after 2 and a half months wait. I ordered an intake for my 1999 Miata. Part of the instructions on their website is to specify which throttle body you intend use so that the flange can be fitted to its specs. The Skunk2 64mm Throttle Body is sold by their business yet the flange they had made was no where near usable for it. There is no metal support on the flange to cover the idle screw passageway. So the idle screw wouldn't be adjustable and suck all the air it wanted. See photos FYI, a whole batch of flanges were made wrong.
I did a test fit of the manifold to see IF there were any othe issues. When there is one, there are bound to be many more. And behold, the angle of the flange is off and cockeyed to about negative 30 degrees. The plenum is welded crooked. The front of the plenum where the TB mounts is sits so low compared to the back. And because of the shady craftmanship/engineering, there is no room for the IAC, idle air control valve!! Really? Bell Engineering? 750 bucks for this!! See photos
What you seen on their website is not what you get. The runners on the actual intake that you will get are way shorter. Without telling you this, I believed they changed the length of the runners so the intake wouldn't interfere with the fuel tubing located near by. There is no visible transition of the runner design like you see in their website photos. The runners are trumpet/horns squeezed into ovals. This new design most likely lead to the cockeyed plenum. There were other small discrepancies that I won't mention because I have a dremel and can fix them. Me and Mr Dremel going to work overtime on this bee-atch!!
Customer service is lacking. They will only respond when something is really wrong on their end. Keeping you informed isn't part of their business model. I would not employ their services until the business and products reach a respectable point in quality. That is not the case presently.
UPDATE: Got an email from BEGi. They informed me, "I can certainly understand your frustration. No, the flange should not have been angled. I will mention it to Corky. And, it would get fixed with the new flange being welded on. For what it is worth, he has never made one like this before. These intake manifolds are not designed to be used with an IAC, and there are no provisions to mount one, nor do we advertise that it will be there. It can be done, but again, we do not make provisions for that with this Intake Manifold. Let me know when you get the flange and plan to get it fixed. We will pay a reasonable amount to fix it."
How do you fix a drooping plenum, is but to start over from scratch. And the throttle body has the provisions for a IAC which has nothing to do with a BEGi intake manifold!
4
12-23-2015, 02:03 AM
#4
Certainly glad to see such a detailed description of this manifold and company making it. This is certainly enough for me to stear clear of this manifold and source a custom unit elsewhere
Such a shame to see such little effort has gone into this manifold.
This thread specifically is the reason I will not be buying this manifold anymore.
Such a shame to see such little effort has gone into this manifold.
This thread specifically is the reason I will not be buying this manifold anymore.
0
12-23-2015, 07:17 AM
#5
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Sounds like a handmade manifold made to a plan not a spec. Thats pretty normal as far as small production numbers handmade parts go.
Dann
Dann
0
12-23-2015, 09:52 AM
#7
Former Vendor
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bell Tuning & Performance
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Matt, Again my apologies. I have apologized several times, I am not sure how many more times you need me to?
Your Problems with the Intake Manifold:
1. Flange - Completely my mistake. I had them laser cut, and told them to make it square like the 70mm flange. We are fixing it now and sending you off the parts to fix it, as you elected to have it fixed locally and we would pay a reasonable amount for the repair. Again, I apologize for the mistake.
2. Throttle Body Flange is angle incorrectly - Yes, upon reflect Corky realizes he did this wrong. He welded it about 10* off of where it should be. Thankfully, this will be fixed when you replace it with the correct flange we will send to you. This is the first time he has ever done this to my knowledge.
3. IAC - At no point have we ever made provisions for an IAC valve with the Manifold. I have asked and asked, but I am always told they will not integrate it. There is a way to integrate one, and we have done it. However, It is only fair to criticize us for this if we advertised that it came with accommodations for the IAC. We never advertise that, therefore this criticism is unfounded.
4. The Short Intake Runners - Yes, it is quite possible the manifold is different than the one pictured on the website. Like every other website out there we do have disclaimers for that. That said, the length of your IM runners were pretty standard. When I inspected it, it was not noted that they were too short or overly long. And yes, some runners are longer than others. They have to be in order to fit around other OEM parts located on the passenger side. For example, the MSM runners will always be shorter than any other year car.
5. Runners are trumpet/horns squeezed into ovals - Ouch, good design gets criticism??? The lack of runner expansion in the middle will allow for smoother flow of air. This is total benefit to performance! As for the oval end, the head flange is oval. The ports on the head are oval. We are simply port matching to promote better air flow. Again, completely a design to aid you in getting smoother power delivery.
Matt, I agree, we made some mistakes. I have offered two different solutions to get you up and running as fast as possible. I feel we are doing the very best we can to fix this as quickly as possible, with the least amount of effort by you.
Stephanie
Your Problems with the Intake Manifold:
1. Flange - Completely my mistake. I had them laser cut, and told them to make it square like the 70mm flange. We are fixing it now and sending you off the parts to fix it, as you elected to have it fixed locally and we would pay a reasonable amount for the repair. Again, I apologize for the mistake.
2. Throttle Body Flange is angle incorrectly - Yes, upon reflect Corky realizes he did this wrong. He welded it about 10* off of where it should be. Thankfully, this will be fixed when you replace it with the correct flange we will send to you. This is the first time he has ever done this to my knowledge.
3. IAC - At no point have we ever made provisions for an IAC valve with the Manifold. I have asked and asked, but I am always told they will not integrate it. There is a way to integrate one, and we have done it. However, It is only fair to criticize us for this if we advertised that it came with accommodations for the IAC. We never advertise that, therefore this criticism is unfounded.
4. The Short Intake Runners - Yes, it is quite possible the manifold is different than the one pictured on the website. Like every other website out there we do have disclaimers for that. That said, the length of your IM runners were pretty standard. When I inspected it, it was not noted that they were too short or overly long. And yes, some runners are longer than others. They have to be in order to fit around other OEM parts located on the passenger side. For example, the MSM runners will always be shorter than any other year car.
5. Runners are trumpet/horns squeezed into ovals - Ouch, good design gets criticism??? The lack of runner expansion in the middle will allow for smoother flow of air. This is total benefit to performance! As for the oval end, the head flange is oval. The ports on the head are oval. We are simply port matching to promote better air flow. Again, completely a design to aid you in getting smoother power delivery.
Matt, I agree, we made some mistakes. I have offered two different solutions to get you up and running as fast as possible. I feel we are doing the very best we can to fix this as quickly as possible, with the least amount of effort by you.
Stephanie
0
12-23-2015, 10:02 AM
#8
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I see the issue with items 1-2-3 above, but 4-5 are reaching.
Not only does the flange need to be rotated, it should be extended a good 1/2" or so so it can clear the alternator bracket. Pretty simple solution. The OE TB just sits a lot further forward towards the radiator -- accomodations should be made here.
It sucks that it happens, but seem like BEGi is more than willing to make it right.
Not only does the flange need to be rotated, it should be extended a good 1/2" or so so it can clear the alternator bracket. Pretty simple solution. The OE TB just sits a lot further forward towards the radiator -- accomodations should be made here.
It sucks that it happens, but seem like BEGi is more than willing to make it right.
0
12-23-2015, 10:11 AM
#9
Former Vendor
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bell Tuning & Performance
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Are you suggesting that we move the TB flange forward? If so, how much? We are usually very accommodating to feedback. People just have to give it to us.
Stephanie
Stephanie
0
12-23-2015, 01:33 PM
#14
Former Vendor
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 271
Total Cats: 11
Sir,
Sometimes I blow it, sometimes I don't. Clearly I did on this one.
Each air horn is swaged from 2.0 to 2.25, then pressed into an air horn shape of about 3.0. Yours is also, much of it just hides in the weld into the log.
The air horn tube length is standard unless specified.
The log is slightly tilted in an effort to make it parallel to the ground. Such looks better to me.
The SW throttle requirements were unknown to me other than bolt pattern. I hope I got that right.
The tilt of the flange is kinda stupid. Offered to pay shipping both ways.
Sorry you had to wait in line. Many things in front of your's.
If you should ever order from us again and I have to make the item, let us try to schedule it around my somewhat sudden requirement for spinal surgery. That should prove easy. Also, if we could further schedule it around a considerably more urgent need for 40 consecutive weekdays of radiation treatments. And then...........
Let's try this, and I'm healthy at the moment: You draw up the straight tube manifold you want, give me lots of details, best if you could send the throttle body along, describe the plenum, tube shapes, horn shapes, any special fittings needed, intersection requirements, bracing thoughts needed, all specific dimensions that are pertinent AND I'll make it for you in exchange for the first one. No further charges to you. I'll also do it promptly.
There will be three conditions; it must be aluminum, no castings or other such, and you must list for me at least three mistakes you have made in your career that caused someone an inconvenience.
Regards,
Corky Bell
Sometimes I blow it, sometimes I don't. Clearly I did on this one.
Each air horn is swaged from 2.0 to 2.25, then pressed into an air horn shape of about 3.0. Yours is also, much of it just hides in the weld into the log.
The air horn tube length is standard unless specified.
The log is slightly tilted in an effort to make it parallel to the ground. Such looks better to me.
The SW throttle requirements were unknown to me other than bolt pattern. I hope I got that right.
The tilt of the flange is kinda stupid. Offered to pay shipping both ways.
Sorry you had to wait in line. Many things in front of your's.
If you should ever order from us again and I have to make the item, let us try to schedule it around my somewhat sudden requirement for spinal surgery. That should prove easy. Also, if we could further schedule it around a considerably more urgent need for 40 consecutive weekdays of radiation treatments. And then...........
Let's try this, and I'm healthy at the moment: You draw up the straight tube manifold you want, give me lots of details, best if you could send the throttle body along, describe the plenum, tube shapes, horn shapes, any special fittings needed, intersection requirements, bracing thoughts needed, all specific dimensions that are pertinent AND I'll make it for you in exchange for the first one. No further charges to you. I'll also do it promptly.
There will be three conditions; it must be aluminum, no castings or other such, and you must list for me at least three mistakes you have made in your career that caused someone an inconvenience.
Regards,
Corky Bell
-2
12-23-2015, 07:27 PM
#16
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@Braineack/@Stephanie - 4 & 5 were a fact of mis-advertisement. An updated image of the genuine product BEGi really makes, would have not been misleading. These updates need to include any great ideas along the way you may have of improving the products so customers are not 'surprised'.
@Corky - As a retired military aircraft avionics tech, I never let myself make mistakes. Lives were at risk. Now I am not saying your mistakes ruined my life, but my Christmas present to myself sucks. Please leave the 'good looking tilt' as a selected option, not standard.
@BEGi - Only option I am ever going to happy with is a complete new one done to Bryan's @ Fab9Tuning specs. It seems to mirror the one you advertise on your website. And he is able to use the IAC on the Skunk2 TB! Such a great manifold that he still uses it. One for one trade, new one made correctly and sent in exchange for this mess you sent me. I put my trust in you by paying you in full before production of the intake. Trust FAIL! Time to win that consumer trust back by showing me what kind of a respectable business you really are.
@pdexta - Actually the proper angle of the plenum, straight, would have let the usage of the IAC under the TB. It is about 1.125 inches lower in front than the back. Corky says the tilt looks good. Function before aesthetics makes life so much easier. The rotation of the TB clockwise 90 degrees would be good idea. Future flange if I am disappointed by BEGi again.
@shuiend - Imagine what else you could have done with that time it took making a remote IAC? Now imagine a world in which crappy craftsmanship no longer wastes your time. But I see your resilience and acknowledge it.
Okay, so the throttle cable bracket needs to be re-drilled so that it can be mounted forward. As it is now, the TB is too far in order for the throttle body plate to close fully. The adjustment of the cable is all the way forward. And the angle will be fixed also with the re-drill. In the spirit of half assing things, JB weld and a nut covers the idle air screw. Had some Miata club members over to take a look at the ingenuity. They liked the joke.
@Corky - As a retired military aircraft avionics tech, I never let myself make mistakes. Lives were at risk. Now I am not saying your mistakes ruined my life, but my Christmas present to myself sucks. Please leave the 'good looking tilt' as a selected option, not standard.
@BEGi - Only option I am ever going to happy with is a complete new one done to Bryan's @ Fab9Tuning specs. It seems to mirror the one you advertise on your website. And he is able to use the IAC on the Skunk2 TB! Such a great manifold that he still uses it. One for one trade, new one made correctly and sent in exchange for this mess you sent me. I put my trust in you by paying you in full before production of the intake. Trust FAIL! Time to win that consumer trust back by showing me what kind of a respectable business you really are.
@pdexta - Actually the proper angle of the plenum, straight, would have let the usage of the IAC under the TB. It is about 1.125 inches lower in front than the back. Corky says the tilt looks good. Function before aesthetics makes life so much easier. The rotation of the TB clockwise 90 degrees would be good idea. Future flange if I am disappointed by BEGi again.
@shuiend - Imagine what else you could have done with that time it took making a remote IAC? Now imagine a world in which crappy craftsmanship no longer wastes your time. But I see your resilience and acknowledge it.
Okay, so the throttle cable bracket needs to be re-drilled so that it can be mounted forward. As it is now, the TB is too far in order for the throttle body plate to close fully. The adjustment of the cable is all the way forward. And the angle will be fixed also with the re-drill. In the spirit of half assing things, JB weld and a nut covers the idle air screw. Had some Miata club members over to take a look at the ingenuity. They liked the joke.
-2
12-23-2015, 07:50 PM
#17
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I think we are past caring for you dude. You have gotten the best replies you can hope for from a small business.
EDIT: And you're being a child. Its clear that you have no trouble badmouthing them before allowing them to help you, what have they got to gain by building you a brand new one at this stage?
Youve basically made it so its fucked for them and they have little incentive to help you, over what is a mistake made on a handmade part. Well done.
EDIT: And you're being a child. Its clear that you have no trouble badmouthing them before allowing them to help you, what have they got to gain by building you a brand new one at this stage?
Youve basically made it so its fucked for them and they have little incentive to help you, over what is a mistake made on a handmade part. Well done.
Last edited by nitrodann; 12-23-2015 at 08:00 PM.
0
12-23-2015, 07:58 PM
#18
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@nitrodann - Yeah got it. But a fool would see them as 'replies'.
-2
12-23-2015, 08:04 PM
#19
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I think we are past caring for you dude. You have gotten the best replies you can hope for from a small business.
EDIT: And you're being a child. Its clear that you have no trouble badmouthing them before allowing them to help you, what have they got to gain by building you a brand new one at this stage?
Youve basically made it so its fucked for them and they have little incentive to help you, over what is a mistake made on a handmade part. Well done.
EDIT: And you're being a child. Its clear that you have no trouble badmouthing them before allowing them to help you, what have they got to gain by building you a brand new one at this stage?
Youve basically made it so its fucked for them and they have little incentive to help you, over what is a mistake made on a handmade part. Well done.
THAT would have been a good reply.
Lame excuses and back and forth babble is not how professional businesses work.
3
12-23-2015, 08:12 PM
#20
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All bets are off when you immediately badmouth them online. Corky has clearly offered everything that he can read his reply.
In a past life I worked in customer service long enough to spot someone who will bitch and moan openly regardless of the offers of help that they receive, and thats what I am seeing.
"I never made any mistakes in my career." You actually said that. I mean, for real?
In a past life I worked in customer service long enough to spot someone who will bitch and moan openly regardless of the offers of help that they receive, and thats what I am seeing.
"I never made any mistakes in my career." You actually said that. I mean, for real?
2
