Build Threads Building a motor? Post the progress here.

project ride the cheekbone

Old 12-31-2016, 11:14 AM
  #121  
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
ridethecliche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
Default

Not sure how to embed video in here, but maybe this link will work?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BOquyxeA...Rl10WY0/?hl=en
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 12-31-2016, 04:48 PM
  #122  
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Ryan_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 2,568
Total Cats: 217
Default

Originally Posted by ridethecliche
Not sure how to embed video in here, but maybe this link will work?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BOquyxeA...Rl10WY0/?hl=en
Dann that engine moves. Can't remember if that is a normal amount of movement with stock style mounts or not since I have moved to AWR mounts. Mine barely torques at all. When my timing was off I usually got the occasional backfire when trying to start. Are you sure you're getting spark?
Ryan_G is offline  
Old 12-31-2016, 08:09 PM
  #123  
Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
njn63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Farmington Hills, MI
Posts: 460
Total Cats: 15
Default

The gasket advice on the last page made me cringe a little bit.

If the part is embossed RCM (rubber coated metal) you should not add any type of RTV or coating. Inspect the castings for defects large enough to snag your fingernail that the emboss will run across. If there are none, install the gasket as is.

RTV/coatings (like copper coat) make the joint less rigid and "crush out"... which reduces clamp load and make the joint fail quicker. They also spread the clamp load out across the gasket surface instead of concentrating it on the emboss which make the gasket less effective.

On paper parts RTV is probably unnecessary but okay as long as you apply it uniformly. Non-uniform application can concentrate stress, causing the paper to split.

Assuming they're designed/manufactured properly, metal gaskets > paper. If you need proof go look at any OEM gasket that has been designed in the last 10-15 years.

Last edited by njn63; 12-31-2016 at 08:20 PM.
njn63 is offline  
Reply
Leave a poscat -1 Leave a negcat
Old 01-01-2017, 04:50 PM
  #124  
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,645
Total Cats: 3,009
Default

RTV on paper will spread like jelly on bread when fresh out of the tube. It will self level when clamping force is applied and is why OEMs use it. It fills minor irregularities in surfaces.

Rubber coated gaskets can seal those irregularities as well. But bare stamped steel gaskets do not do that at all.
Attached Thumbnails project ride the cheekbone-oem-304-stainless-steel-stamping-gasket.jpg  
sixshooter is offline  
Old 01-01-2017, 05:24 PM
  #125  
Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
njn63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Farmington Hills, MI
Posts: 460
Total Cats: 15
Default

Originally Posted by sixshooter
RTV on paper will spread like jelly on bread when fresh out of the tube. It will self level when clamping force is applied and is why OEMs use it. It fills minor irregularities in surfaces.
Couple problems with that theory:
1. The gasket is conformable and you need pressure to force the RTV to spread.
2. The only place OEMs use RTV with a gasket are in t joints and sharp radii. There is a reason for that.
3. Joints are not static. Temperature/pressure cause changes in pressure distribution across the joint.

As I said previously, if you're only using a light smear across an entire gasket in a low torque joint you're probably not going to have issues. The failures I typically saw when doing gasket failure analysis were related to people putting a bead around a port and it splitting the paper.
Originally Posted by sixshooter
Rubber coated gaskets can seal those irregularities as well. But bare stamped steel gaskets do not do that at all.
The only place I have ever seen bare metal used is on exhaust. The theory there is that carbon in the exhaust stream will pack any surface irregularities fairly quickly and self seal leaks.

I would be very surprised to see a bare metal gasket used in a coolant application.
njn63 is offline  
Old 01-01-2017, 05:55 PM
  #126  
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,645
Total Cats: 3,009
Default

Originally Posted by njn63
Couple problems with that theory:
1. The gasket is conformable and you need pressure to force the RTV to spread.
2. The only place OEMs use RTV with a gasket are in t joints and sharp radii. There is a reason for that.
3. Joints are not static. Temperature/pressure cause changes in pressure distribution across the joint.

As I said previously, if you're only using a light smear across an entire gasket in a low torque joint you're probably not going to have issues. The failures I typically saw when doing gasket failure analysis were related to people putting a bead around a port and it splitting the paper.The only place I have ever seen bare metal used is on exhaust. The theory there is that carbon in the exhaust stream will pack any surface irregularities fairly quickly and self seal leaks.

I would be very surprised to see a bare metal gasket used in a coolant application.
I always spread the rtv.

I wouldn't use a metal gasket for water without rubber and advised accordingly.

OEM oil pans are often sealed with RTV and no gasket.
sixshooter is offline  
Old 01-01-2017, 05:56 PM
  #127  
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
ridethecliche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
Default

The weird looking gasket for the water pump was metal in my car.

I beaded some RTV on both sides of the gasket and installed it. It held the gasket in place while it went on. Then we tightened all the bolts and made sure RTV came out around the gasket. We went to go eat and poured in the coolant after that. No leaks. Hoping it stays that way.

So from the video we're thinking timing issue right? Not a cam/cas issue? I guess I can double check those just in case.

Last edited by ridethecliche; 01-01-2017 at 08:04 PM.
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 01-01-2017, 08:05 PM
  #128  
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
ridethecliche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
Default

Originally Posted by Ryan_G
Dann that engine moves. Can't remember if that is a normal amount of movement with stock style mounts or not since I have moved to AWR mounts. Mine barely torques at all. When my timing was off I usually got the occasional backfire when trying to start. Are you sure you're getting spark?
Yeah...

I think we're going to take the engine and trans out when doing the turbo install so we can do the coolant reroute, tap the pan, and swap out the clutch. I think it'll save time since we'll be able to do those three jobs much faster with the engine out.

I think I'm going to swap to mazdacomp motor mounts as well.
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 01-07-2017, 01:57 PM
  #129  
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
ridethecliche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
Default

So since I'm going to be taking the motor out, anything I should add to the list of things to do? Motor mounts? Mazda speed ones? I want to keep noise reasonable so the race oriented ones are out. It would be nice not to miss shifts though. Thinking of getting a shifter rebuild kit too.

Recs appreciated!

Last edited by ridethecliche; 01-17-2017 at 10:16 PM.
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 01-17-2017, 10:43 PM
  #130  
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
ridethecliche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
Default

Going to tackle the TB job again tomorrow. Anyone have any tips for resetting timing given that it's probably fubared now?
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 01-18-2017, 09:34 PM
  #131  
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
ridethecliche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
Default

SUCCESSSSSSS!!!

Going to put a few miles on the car and make sure things are running well, then it's going to be time to do megasquirt things!

Any guesses as to why it didn't work last time?
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 01-19-2017, 03:27 PM
  #132  
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
ridethecliche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
Default

Haha, slow day on MT today.

Turns out the timing trigger wheel was backwards.

******* rookie mistake. Car runs like a top now though!
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 01-22-2017, 01:32 PM
  #133  
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
ridethecliche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
Default

Koyo radiator is pretty ridiculous. With highway driving last night (air temps in 40's) I was barely above the 'C' on the coolant temp gauge. I turned the AC on a few times to see if it would do anything and the needle barely budged. This is with no undertray.

Gonna be pretty awesome for when things are all bewsty like.
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 01-22-2017, 01:40 PM
  #134  
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Lexzar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Redlands, CA
Posts: 953
Total Cats: 41
Default

Radiator sounds aweseome. I have just an oem one but no boost currently, temps sit between 200F and 210F with a single fan. Sounds like the koyo is pretty darn good.
Lexzar is offline  
Old 01-22-2017, 02:09 PM
  #135  
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
ridethecliche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
Default

Originally Posted by Lexzar
Radiator sounds aweseome. I have just an oem one but no boost currently, temps sit between 200F and 210F with a single fan. Sounds like the koyo is pretty darn good.
I think you'll be fine with the stock unit till you build the engine and turn up boost. If things start overheating, you can always do the radiator then. No use spending money you don't have to yet. There was another thread recently where the OP posted the koyorad for 230 or so. I paid 280. 230 is a pretty solid price for something that will likely live the life of the car.

I'm looking forward to monitoring coolant temp when I get the MS3X installed soon (hopefully this weekend!). I want to spend atleast 2-3 months with the car on MS3X while in NA trim so I can learn to tune a bit and get the injectors and fuel pump installed. I think there are a few dyno's nearby too. I might take the car to them as it currently sits to get a baseline for how the car was running NA and then take it back again before the turbo install to see what I managed to get out of it with the MS3X. Unfortunately the cost isn't insignificant for what was supposed to be a budget build, but I think there's utility in having actual data. My goal was to reach 2x-ish stock power and if nothing else, having data will help me rationalize dialing back the boost till I build the engine up with atleast rods. Given how insane school is going to be for the next year and a half (or 2), I doubt this is going to happen for a good long while, unless my big winter project this winter is to just learn how to put rods in. Then I can buy a 6-speed and live happily ever after*.


*If only things played out like they do in daydreams...

And lulz, I got a neg-cat for my newby comment on your thread. Womp.
ridethecliche is offline  
Reply
Leave a poscat -1 Leave a negcat
Old 01-22-2017, 02:48 PM
  #136  
SadFab CEO
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 4,560
Total Cats: 1,142
Default

Do you not have a thermostat? Or better question- do you not have the proper rated thermo?
hi_im_sean is offline  
Old 01-22-2017, 02:55 PM
  #137  
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
ridethecliche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
Default

Originally Posted by hi_im_sean
Do you not have a thermostat? Or better question- do you not have the proper rated thermo?
Put the stock thermostat back in. I have the stant thermostat from bandit's reroute kit waiting to go in when I do the reroute with the turbo install.

Temp climbs up normally if it's driven at county road speed. When I got off the exit, it climbed about a quarter of the way up. It's working. It's just running pretty damn cool.
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 01-22-2017, 05:50 PM
  #138  
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
ryansmoneypit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: A cave in Va
Posts: 3,395
Total Cats: 456
Default

That's not right. I should be in the middle, no matter what radiator.
ryansmoneypit is offline  
Old 01-22-2017, 06:17 PM
  #139  
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
ridethecliche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: New Fucking Jersey
Posts: 3,890
Total Cats: 143
Default

Originally Posted by ryansmoneypit
That's not right. I should be in the middle, no matter what radiator.
That's so bizarre. It usually gets close to the middle if I'm driving slowly.

If it was stuck, I'd expect it to not move at all, no? I guess I'll find out exactly what's going on when I get the megasquirt in since I'll be able to pull the coolant temp. Don't have the obd reader yet and don't see the point of ordering one for a week's use!

I've never seen the needle climb to exactly half since the new radiator install. If the needle is moving, it's not a clogged/bum thermometer, right?

ridethecliche is offline  
Old 01-23-2017, 03:30 AM
  #140  
Senior Member
iTrader: (6)
 
yossi126's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 854
Total Cats: -15
Default

Running a rich mixture for longer periods of time is bad for your engine. Find someone with a 2$ obd reader and diagnose the problem.
Problem solving is much easier with a stock ecu. Standalones have so many variables in the tune it is especially hard to diagnose in the first steps of a new project.
yossi126 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: project ride the cheekbone



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:53 PM.