DJWade's (Hopefully) California Legal LFXocet Swap Build
04-13-2017, 01:13 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Concord, CA
Posts: 122
Total Cats: 12
DJWade's (Hopefully) California Legal LFXocet Swap Build
People that know me will, if prompted, confirm (oftentimes emphatically) that I make impulsive decisions. Often. Those same people will tell you that I have a propensity to dramatically change the direction of my projects right before the end if I’m not satisfied. I usually get around this with my automotive projects by making sure that my end goal is something that will take a while, even after the car is running and driving so that I don’t spend too much time without a drivable project car.
The path my miata has taken to date is no exception.
I have been working on my ‘99 for about 8 months now. It was purchased with a rod knock and crap paint with the ultimate goal being to rebuild the engine, try all sorts of different types of forced induction, and work on the body and cosmetics afterwards over a long period of time. And that’s how things played out for a while.
The engine was machined and rebuilt with a new crank and full forged internals, custom pistons with an 8.25:1 CR so I could boost the daylights out of it in the future, and longer con-rods to smooth things out. I also acquired all the bits needed to cosmetically facelift my ‘99 into a Mazdaspeed with the OEM headlights, front bumper/lip and spoiler. I also picked up a MS3 Pro and a well sorted stupidcharger kit that should have brought me to around 230+rwhp, with plans to do a true flex-fuel build afterwards. After a few months, the car was running great, and I’d broken in everything and was ready to start slapping on boost.
Three main issues arose, however. The first was the rear diff. My miata has an open rear diff, which isn’t great, and as it got more use, a slow leak became apparent. I was planning on getting a torsen shortly, but hadn’t yet pulled the trigger.
The second issue was the transmission. Despite the chassis only having 96k miles on it, the transmission had definitely been abused by a prior owner, and wasn’t happy by the time I purchased it. Some overly hard shifting seemed to have done it’s toll and it felt like the synchros were starting to go. Oh well. I had planned on upgrading to a 6 speed eventually as I wanted to have the headroom for plenty of power.
The final issue, which isn’t unexpected or out of the norm, is the fact that I live in California, and emissions here are - how you say - strict.. Standard practice in California is to smog stock, then just swap things in, and return to stock every 2 years. All of the “amazing, new, CARB-legal” Turbo and Stupidcharger setups that exist or are slated to come out soon™ that would eliminate that need effectively might as well all be named Casper, as they’re about as substantial as my glorious Man-beard. (Spoiler : My jaw is the facial equivalent of a naked mole-rat)
All three of those factors on their own don’t really hold much sway over a build direction, but for impulsive people like me, it makes my mind start exploring more extreme options - options that could sate my hunger for a stable, powerful build. I did some digging and some pricing of different options, and decided to take a road (much) less traveled: A California BAR’d engine swap of the V6 LFX engine from a 2012-2015 Camaro, utilizing V8 Roadster’s subframe and components.
My (likely illogical) thought process was that over the course of the swap, I would be solving all of the above issues. The swap uses either a Ford 8.8 or Getrag rear differential, which opens up multiple options for better ratios with LSDs. While the Torsen isn’t necessarily a weak differential, I’ll feel much better having something like a 3.23 G80 Getrag holding the power, given that they’re under $250 each, and not likely to break given the power I’ll be running.
The Aisin MV5 transmission included with a Camaro dropout, while also not as ideal as the MV7 with respect to gearing, is still much more robust when exceeding 300+ lb-ft, whereas the 5 speed miata transmission turns into a consumable at those torque levels.
Finally, with the benefit of the modern feature-set of the LFX engine and the integrated exhaust manifold, it should be much easier than with other engines to get the engine swap california legal, as it only takes some modification of the downpipe with the integrated catalytic converters to keep all the emission equipment on the engine. While swapping things in and out isn’t that much of a big deal, I find myself so busy with work these days that I don’t have as much time as I’d like to spend a weekend wrenching things on and off the car just to pass smog. Also - I’m lazy. Given that this looks to be a solution where I’ll likely be able to push 330+rwhp on an e85 tune, I would be thrilled to not have to worry about anything besides flashing the stock tune for smog.
Now before anyone says anything about it: Yes. I know. You’re absolutely right. The far easier (and cheaper) path would have been to keep the freshly built engine, and put something like TSE’s BorgWarner kit on it and be done with it. But I wanted to do something different and explore if it’s even possible to have a 300hp v6 miata be truly street legal in California.
For the other group of you who are yelling at the screen saying if I'm going to swap an engine, I might as well go with a V8: The LFX package should be far easier to get smogged with an engine swap other than a crate e-rod, but that would cost nearly as much as I'm spending on this entire build for just the engine and transmission. Trying to adapt the Catalytic converters is already hard enough that I don't even want to think about having to do so with the addition of a stock exhaust manifold that isn't integrated. There's also fewer chassis modifications required and v8 Roadsters has already proven to be an invaluable resource as I've begun wading into this project.
Besides, I prefer the sound of a V6. So sue me.
And thus the project begins.
The path my miata has taken to date is no exception.
I have been working on my ‘99 for about 8 months now. It was purchased with a rod knock and crap paint with the ultimate goal being to rebuild the engine, try all sorts of different types of forced induction, and work on the body and cosmetics afterwards over a long period of time. And that’s how things played out for a while.
The engine was machined and rebuilt with a new crank and full forged internals, custom pistons with an 8.25:1 CR so I could boost the daylights out of it in the future, and longer con-rods to smooth things out. I also acquired all the bits needed to cosmetically facelift my ‘99 into a Mazdaspeed with the OEM headlights, front bumper/lip and spoiler. I also picked up a MS3 Pro and a well sorted stupidcharger kit that should have brought me to around 230+rwhp, with plans to do a true flex-fuel build afterwards. After a few months, the car was running great, and I’d broken in everything and was ready to start slapping on boost.
Three main issues arose, however. The first was the rear diff. My miata has an open rear diff, which isn’t great, and as it got more use, a slow leak became apparent. I was planning on getting a torsen shortly, but hadn’t yet pulled the trigger.
The second issue was the transmission. Despite the chassis only having 96k miles on it, the transmission had definitely been abused by a prior owner, and wasn’t happy by the time I purchased it. Some overly hard shifting seemed to have done it’s toll and it felt like the synchros were starting to go. Oh well. I had planned on upgrading to a 6 speed eventually as I wanted to have the headroom for plenty of power.
The final issue, which isn’t unexpected or out of the norm, is the fact that I live in California, and emissions here are - how you say - strict.. Standard practice in California is to smog stock, then just swap things in, and return to stock every 2 years. All of the “amazing, new, CARB-legal” Turbo and Stupidcharger setups that exist or are slated to come out soon™ that would eliminate that need effectively might as well all be named Casper, as they’re about as substantial as my glorious Man-beard. (Spoiler : My jaw is the facial equivalent of a naked mole-rat)
All three of those factors on their own don’t really hold much sway over a build direction, but for impulsive people like me, it makes my mind start exploring more extreme options - options that could sate my hunger for a stable, powerful build. I did some digging and some pricing of different options, and decided to take a road (much) less traveled: A California BAR’d engine swap of the V6 LFX engine from a 2012-2015 Camaro, utilizing V8 Roadster’s subframe and components.
My (likely illogical) thought process was that over the course of the swap, I would be solving all of the above issues. The swap uses either a Ford 8.8 or Getrag rear differential, which opens up multiple options for better ratios with LSDs. While the Torsen isn’t necessarily a weak differential, I’ll feel much better having something like a 3.23 G80 Getrag holding the power, given that they’re under $250 each, and not likely to break given the power I’ll be running.
The Aisin MV5 transmission included with a Camaro dropout, while also not as ideal as the MV7 with respect to gearing, is still much more robust when exceeding 300+ lb-ft, whereas the 5 speed miata transmission turns into a consumable at those torque levels.
Finally, with the benefit of the modern feature-set of the LFX engine and the integrated exhaust manifold, it should be much easier than with other engines to get the engine swap california legal, as it only takes some modification of the downpipe with the integrated catalytic converters to keep all the emission equipment on the engine. While swapping things in and out isn’t that much of a big deal, I find myself so busy with work these days that I don’t have as much time as I’d like to spend a weekend wrenching things on and off the car just to pass smog. Also - I’m lazy. Given that this looks to be a solution where I’ll likely be able to push 330+rwhp on an e85 tune, I would be thrilled to not have to worry about anything besides flashing the stock tune for smog.
Now before anyone says anything about it: Yes. I know. You’re absolutely right. The far easier (and cheaper) path would have been to keep the freshly built engine, and put something like TSE’s BorgWarner kit on it and be done with it. But I wanted to do something different and explore if it’s even possible to have a 300hp v6 miata be truly street legal in California.
For the other group of you who are yelling at the screen saying if I'm going to swap an engine, I might as well go with a V8: The LFX package should be far easier to get smogged with an engine swap other than a crate e-rod, but that would cost nearly as much as I'm spending on this entire build for just the engine and transmission. Trying to adapt the Catalytic converters is already hard enough that I don't even want to think about having to do so with the addition of a stock exhaust manifold that isn't integrated. There's also fewer chassis modifications required and v8 Roadsters has already proven to be an invaluable resource as I've begun wading into this project.
Besides, I prefer the sound of a V6. So sue me.
And thus the project begins.
Last edited by Djwade; 05-24-2017 at 11:45 PM. Reason: Now LFXocet
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04-13-2017, 01:14 AM
#2
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Concord, CA
Posts: 122
Total Cats: 12
I immediately sold off the Engine, Transmission, MS3Pro, and Supercharger setup, and started hunting for a dropout while I stripped the car down. The biggest difficulty in this process is that 99% of the people looking for these engines are looking for piecemeal parts to repair their camaro, and as such, the majority of wrecking yards strip the LS and LT camaros down into their constituent parts immediately upon receipt. The other issue is that the manual 6-speeds are few and far between when paired with the LFX engine. Normally, I wouldn’t have an issue with this as I could simply buy the engine alone and add on the transmission later, but due to the age of the vehicle and lack of demand, getting a new clutch/flywheel would set me back over $1000. When the option exists to save that much by waiting a few weeks and doing more legwork, I’m all about that.
I had hoped the process of finding a full dropout wouldn’t be terrible, but in the end it took me about 4 weeks of daily calls and trips as the area I was willing to look in expanded. After sourcing multiple dropouts that fell through, I finally found a full dropout with ~600 (yes, 600, not 6000) miles on a 2015 camaro in Arkansas, with the majority of the damage on the driver-side door through to the rear quarter panel. A quick call to a shipper and everything was setup to arrive at my door a few weeks later.
And that about brings us to present day. In the next day or two I’ll be putting in the order the V8R for just about everything I need. I’ve already purchased the modified oil pan and the engine bay plates to weld in where the “ears” are cut out. There’s currently a ~5 week lead time on the subframe and some other components for the swap, which has given me time to start to work on the body. The engine and transmission have arrived in California, and should be dropped off at my house in the next few days.
The car has always had terrible paint, and I decided I wanted to do something uncommon with it and do a color change. While literally no one besides me will care, I wanted the new paint to be something that is related to the new heart the miata is getting, so I’m opting for Rally Yellow, a color used on the early 5th Gen. Camaros. After it’s been painted and put together, I’ll likely be adding some black vinyl accents on as well, though I’m not 100% they’ll be the look I want.
While I’m waiting for parts to arrive, I’ve been working on the body, doing some basic dent pulling and block sanding to bring costs down on the bodywork and respray. Metal cutting wheels for my angle grinder get here shortly, after which I’ll begin cutting off the engine bay ears. I’ve also stripped out the entirety of the engine bay above the pinch welds (see above image) and the majority of the interior to strip out the unnecessary wiring and install aftermarket seats eventually.
I’ll hopefully be a bit better about updates than I did with the previous iteration my miata had taken, but the 5 week lead time will likely mean progress will be slow until then. Only time will tell how things go from here, but no matter what, I’ll enjoy the process.
I had hoped the process of finding a full dropout wouldn’t be terrible, but in the end it took me about 4 weeks of daily calls and trips as the area I was willing to look in expanded. After sourcing multiple dropouts that fell through, I finally found a full dropout with ~600 (yes, 600, not 6000) miles on a 2015 camaro in Arkansas, with the majority of the damage on the driver-side door through to the rear quarter panel. A quick call to a shipper and everything was setup to arrive at my door a few weeks later.
And that about brings us to present day. In the next day or two I’ll be putting in the order the V8R for just about everything I need. I’ve already purchased the modified oil pan and the engine bay plates to weld in where the “ears” are cut out. There’s currently a ~5 week lead time on the subframe and some other components for the swap, which has given me time to start to work on the body. The engine and transmission have arrived in California, and should be dropped off at my house in the next few days.
The car has always had terrible paint, and I decided I wanted to do something uncommon with it and do a color change. While literally no one besides me will care, I wanted the new paint to be something that is related to the new heart the miata is getting, so I’m opting for Rally Yellow, a color used on the early 5th Gen. Camaros. After it’s been painted and put together, I’ll likely be adding some black vinyl accents on as well, though I’m not 100% they’ll be the look I want.
While I’m waiting for parts to arrive, I’ve been working on the body, doing some basic dent pulling and block sanding to bring costs down on the bodywork and respray. Metal cutting wheels for my angle grinder get here shortly, after which I’ll begin cutting off the engine bay ears. I’ve also stripped out the entirety of the engine bay above the pinch welds (see above image) and the majority of the interior to strip out the unnecessary wiring and install aftermarket seats eventually.
I’ll hopefully be a bit better about updates than I did with the previous iteration my miata had taken, but the 5 week lead time will likely mean progress will be slow until then. Only time will tell how things go from here, but no matter what, I’ll enjoy the process.
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04-13-2017, 07:34 AM
#6
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Posts: 1,187
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Good luck with the project!
I'm in to spectate, as I'm seriously interested in this swap for our NC. The LFX sounds great with a good exhaust, and it's entirely in character for a small roadster. Nothing wrong with the sound of a nice 6 cyl... I also prefer it to the sound of an LS, which IMHO is not a great sounding V8.
I'm in to spectate, as I'm seriously interested in this swap for our NC. The LFX sounds great with a good exhaust, and it's entirely in character for a small roadster. Nothing wrong with the sound of a nice 6 cyl... I also prefer it to the sound of an LS, which IMHO is not a great sounding V8.
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04-13-2017, 08:20 AM
#7
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Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Concord, CA
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It might be overly ambitious, but I'm hoping to have the car drivable by Miatas at MRLS this year. If I could drive it as a street legal car there and back, I'd be thrilled. We'll see how the timing plays out though.
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04-13-2017, 08:32 AM
#8
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Location: Concord, CA
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Good luck with the project!
I'm in to spectate, as I'm seriously interested in this swap for our NC. The LFX sounds great with a good exhaust, and it's entirely in character for a small roadster. Nothing wrong with the sound of a nice 6 cyl... I also prefer it to the sound of an LS, which IMHO is not a great sounding V8.
I'm in to spectate, as I'm seriously interested in this swap for our NC. The LFX sounds great with a good exhaust, and it's entirely in character for a small roadster. Nothing wrong with the sound of a nice 6 cyl... I also prefer it to the sound of an LS, which IMHO is not a great sounding V8.
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04-14-2017, 12:57 PM
#12
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Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Concord, CA
Posts: 122
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A lovely package arrived a few days ago. Its heft seems to indicate something for the swap.
That's... a lot of paper. At least it's recyclable.
And the Getrag G80 3.23 Limited Slip Differential has arrived. Definitely needs a little clean-up, but only had ~50k miles on it and has a 6 month warrantee.
Cleaning it all up will be another welcome task while I wait on the V8 Roadster Parts.
That's... a lot of paper. At least it's recyclable.
And the Getrag G80 3.23 Limited Slip Differential has arrived. Definitely needs a little clean-up, but only had ~50k miles on it and has a 6 month warrantee.
Cleaning it all up will be another welcome task while I wait on the V8 Roadster Parts.
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04-14-2017, 02:15 PM
#14
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Haddonfield, NJ
Posts: 211
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I believe "ThePass" is doing an LFX into his NA albeit for track purposes (not sure if that is exclusive or if it will be street driven). I'm sure he could be a wealth of wisdom for your project. I wish I knew how to page someone on this forum.
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04-14-2017, 02:41 PM
#15
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Yep. I've been religiously following and re-reading the 3 LFX builds on the forums and feel fortunate that I have access to their documentation of the process, as it's alleviated a lot of my concerns and answered some of my questions. The speed at which Carnut169 got his running makes me cautiously optimistic that I could have this ready for Miatas at MRLS, but only time will tell.
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04-15-2017, 12:18 AM
#16
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I finally got around to messing with a Mazdaspeed picture to see how the color I'm planning on might look once all things are said and done. It's not a color for everyone, but its exactly what I want. I can only hope it actually looks like this in person.
I also think the satin black double racing stripes would be pretty sweet if done right, but for now, the solid yellow is. pretty enough picture to keep me working on the bodywork.
I also think the satin black double racing stripes would be pretty sweet if done right, but for now, the solid yellow is. pretty enough picture to keep me working on the bodywork.
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04-15-2017, 11:03 AM
#18
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Thanks!
Personally, I have high confidence about making this swap road legal. I'll have documentation about the purchase of brand new OEM Catalytic Converters, and I'm going to have pictures and documentation prepared of having them modified to fit around the steering column. Everything else should be stock, and I can't imagine a real issue for them to bring up. I may still schedule a referee appointment prior to actually getting it approved, just so I can see if the referee has anything obvious to point out that I'm missing.
Personally, I have high confidence about making this swap road legal. I'll have documentation about the purchase of brand new OEM Catalytic Converters, and I'm going to have pictures and documentation prepared of having them modified to fit around the steering column. Everything else should be stock, and I can't imagine a real issue for them to bring up. I may still schedule a referee appointment prior to actually getting it approved, just so I can see if the referee has anything obvious to point out that I'm missing.
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04-16-2017, 10:56 PM
#19
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Got around to a few more items this weekend, most of which was logistics and planning.
As far as the actual wrenching goes, I finally got around to pulling off the exhaust and PPF to try and sell on craigslist. I figure the only thing that will actually sell for more than $10 is the Enthuza axle-back and maybe the 4-2-1 header that I still need to clean up. The PPF was being a royal pain in the *** to get off without a chisel set, but after a quick stop by Lowe's, it was off in 10 minutes. The right tool goes a long way I suppose.
I also finally got around to hacking off the little sheet metal gussets in the engine bay. Still waiting on the frame rail reinforcements plates from V8Rs to arrive, but once they do, the chassis will be off to the body shop to get those welded into place and then painted. I tried to cut the lower sheet metal to follow along with the curve made by the lowest sheet mating up with it. From perusing the various v6 and v8 builds, there doesn't seem to be a specific reason to cut it deeper that I've been able to see yet, but I wouldn't mind being enlightened if someone has some insight into that part of the swap in particular. I'll probably end up giving V8 Roadsters a call tomorrow morning to check recommended cut depth prior to sending it off for the final body work.
On the logistic side of things, so far I've penned in using Trackspeed Engineering's Gen2 Big Brake Kit in conjunction with the M-tuned bracket and my stock 1.8 calipers in the rear with a TSE's proportioning valve. I figure that, given the fact the LFX doesn't really add any weight, what works well for ~300hp turbo miatas should work well for the LFX as well. The addition of Singular Motorsports brake ducts is also planned, but probably will happen after the car is running, as I don't think I'll be pushing the brake setup hard enough to approach the thermal limit of the brake fluid as I'm learning.
Wheels and tires are likely going to be Konig Helix 15x9s or Advanti Storm 15x9s, either of which will get Hankook's Ventus RS-4s, probably in 225/45/15, though I'm also considering 245/40/15. This is pretty close to being nailed down and ordered, but I'm going to wait a bit longer to hear more news on the RS-4 wear front.
The engine and transmission were scheduled for a delivery on Friday, but never showed up.
I called the freight company and they claimed that they didn't have a lift gate truck available that day, despite scheduling an appointment and confirming that delivery would occur the day before. Now I'm stuck having taken a day off work for naught, and a busy week ahead of me where I likely won't be able to accommodate another delivery appointment like that. Apparently the company has a track record of scheduling appointments and not delivering for multiple days in a row. I guess the only bright side of this is that I'll likely be able to get all of my shipping costs reimbursed due to their little screw up, given that I took a day off and had a scheduled appointment that was missed with no notification on their part. A silver lining I guess?
As it stands now, I'm quickly running out of things to do until the engine arrives, given that the chassis will be gone on Friday, assuming the braces show up. We'll see what I can come up with in the mean time.
As far as the actual wrenching goes, I finally got around to pulling off the exhaust and PPF to try and sell on craigslist. I figure the only thing that will actually sell for more than $10 is the Enthuza axle-back and maybe the 4-2-1 header that I still need to clean up. The PPF was being a royal pain in the *** to get off without a chisel set, but after a quick stop by Lowe's, it was off in 10 minutes. The right tool goes a long way I suppose.
I also finally got around to hacking off the little sheet metal gussets in the engine bay. Still waiting on the frame rail reinforcements plates from V8Rs to arrive, but once they do, the chassis will be off to the body shop to get those welded into place and then painted. I tried to cut the lower sheet metal to follow along with the curve made by the lowest sheet mating up with it. From perusing the various v6 and v8 builds, there doesn't seem to be a specific reason to cut it deeper that I've been able to see yet, but I wouldn't mind being enlightened if someone has some insight into that part of the swap in particular. I'll probably end up giving V8 Roadsters a call tomorrow morning to check recommended cut depth prior to sending it off for the final body work.
On the logistic side of things, so far I've penned in using Trackspeed Engineering's Gen2 Big Brake Kit in conjunction with the M-tuned bracket and my stock 1.8 calipers in the rear with a TSE's proportioning valve. I figure that, given the fact the LFX doesn't really add any weight, what works well for ~300hp turbo miatas should work well for the LFX as well. The addition of Singular Motorsports brake ducts is also planned, but probably will happen after the car is running, as I don't think I'll be pushing the brake setup hard enough to approach the thermal limit of the brake fluid as I'm learning.
Wheels and tires are likely going to be Konig Helix 15x9s or Advanti Storm 15x9s, either of which will get Hankook's Ventus RS-4s, probably in 225/45/15, though I'm also considering 245/40/15. This is pretty close to being nailed down and ordered, but I'm going to wait a bit longer to hear more news on the RS-4 wear front.
The engine and transmission were scheduled for a delivery on Friday, but never showed up.
I called the freight company and they claimed that they didn't have a lift gate truck available that day, despite scheduling an appointment and confirming that delivery would occur the day before. Now I'm stuck having taken a day off work for naught, and a busy week ahead of me where I likely won't be able to accommodate another delivery appointment like that. Apparently the company has a track record of scheduling appointments and not delivering for multiple days in a row. I guess the only bright side of this is that I'll likely be able to get all of my shipping costs reimbursed due to their little screw up, given that I took a day off and had a scheduled appointment that was missed with no notification on their part. A silver lining I guess?As it stands now, I'm quickly running out of things to do until the engine arrives, given that the chassis will be gone on Friday, assuming the braces show up. We'll see what I can come up with in the mean time.
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04-17-2017, 01:00 AM
#20
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I'm going to burst your bubble a bit. The BAR ref is going to want to see the complete emissions package from the Camaro. That means the entire intake tract, MAF, complete engine, OEM headers and unmodified downpipes, OEM cats in their OEM location. He'll also want to see the entire fuel system, including the OEM fuel tank. If your ref follows the letter of the law, there is little hope of you actually getting a BAR sticker. It would be very easy to get an EO for the car since everything will be essentially stock, but that would require putting the car through ~$10k in audited drive-cycle lab tests.
Rx7 guys deal with this when they do BAR'd LS swaps. To do it 100% legal, you need a Camaro fuel tank as well as a Camaro engine. Some refs let it slide, some don't.
If your DP modifications involve changing the distance between the cats and the engine, your ref is going to ding you on that as well.
Good luck. If you can do it, it will be super cool.
Rx7 guys deal with this when they do BAR'd LS swaps. To do it 100% legal, you need a Camaro fuel tank as well as a Camaro engine. Some refs let it slide, some don't.
If your DP modifications involve changing the distance between the cats and the engine, your ref is going to ding you on that as well.
Good luck. If you can do it, it will be super cool.
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