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Dual-duty N/A VVT track car "budget" build
Happy new year everyone. I don’t post much here, but I’ve learned so much from this site that I figured I’d start one of these and introduce myself to the community a little better. I’m pretty far into the build already, so I’ll give a bit of a backstory. The goal of this project has always been a low-budget, dual duty car – dead-reliable and capable on track while being a good street toy and road trip capable, built with maximum DIY and lots of learning. Also, I have no F/I planned for this car, so you can stop reading now.
And I have four cats. https://farm1.staticflickr.com/579/2...5bc8e677_b.jpg Not the subject of this thread, but I’ll introduce my first Miata since you’ll see it in a lot of the pictures. Bought it in 2012 for my senior year of high school. 50k and nearly mint condition – exactly the Miata I wanted and I managed not to make it too much worse. https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8031/...a78d729e_b.jpg Drove it for a year, installed the wheels, FM Vmaxxxx, a RS3 catback, and a few little things here and there. Started autocrossing in it, had a lot of fun just the way it is. Then I went to college and bought a daily, this car has been on the back burner since, but not forgotten. https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5588/...cb6503e9_b.jpg Now May 2014, I wanted a summer project so I sort of impulse bought our subject. Unfortunately she has yet to offer inspiration for a name. Another ’91, this time with 135k, for $1200. Exterior was beat, interior was nasty, but it somehow had no rust, a strong drivetrain, and a few mediocre aftermarket goodies that made it a good deal. I didn’t take many picture because it was so unpleasant to look at – 5 shades of red, black quarter, and a bondo’d trunk (didn’t come with the hard top). https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4739/...1cdca1be_b.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4681/...17ea1d9b_b.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4646/...576fbc03_b.jpg These almost killed the deal. Fortunately, the stock gauge faces were still underneath! https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4739/...06168477_b.jpg Mint SNC!? Seals, no so much. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4647/...ba8c9bb6_b.jpg Polished the paint, and the passenger side actually looked decent! Mostly drove it to work that summer, autocrossed it some, caught up on maintenance. I had no significant plans for this car going in. Then decided autocross was boring, and I wanted to go fast. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4732/...9427e3a6_b.jpg Broomstick test unsuccessful. Winter 14-15 Found all this stuff on craigslist for cheap. Looks like this track car thing is gonna happen. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4727/...e611ee41_b.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4637/...708b878e_b.jpg Talk about a transformation. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4729/...a5f957f0_b.jpg Success! (Motocross helmet is bulky, I’m a little further below the bar than that) https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4726/...c5d4ca76_b.jpg Fast forward to June ‘15 – threw some HP+ on her and went to a Track Night in America event at NJMP Thunderbolt. Hooked. TNiA events have been controversial, with their lack of instruction and cheap entry fee, a lot of people reported sketchy stuff happening in the lower run groups. This one was pretty good, but I saw some accidents the next year. Regardless, the cost of these events couldn’t be beat, so I mostly did them for the next two years. At this point I think I was into this car for $2500, fully baselined and safe to track. Plus, look how ugly it is. I don't really care about its well-being. Mission accomplished? July ’15, my dad and I trekked out to Summit Point on the hottest day of the year to run with WDCR SCCA on Shenandoah, free of charge courtesy of a friend from school who had flagger credits but no track car. Thanks, Paul! https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3781/...600131d6_b.jpg Then my cheap track rat and I fell into the rabbit hole. Got tired of how bad the car looked: https://farm1.staticflickr.com/349/2...22e0b437_b.jpg Jellybean helped. https://farm1.staticflickr.com/586/2...a82b8170_b.jpg Primed it in the garage. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4683/...001e34ca_b.jpg Went back to the track. I almost dug this look… https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4599/...3574a213_b.jpg Nah. Rented a paint booth to spray the color. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4590/...6cbe14bf_b.jpg Magic happened. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4688/...1b96631c_b.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4591/...766800e5_b.jpg Not bad for a newb. Just single stage classic red. It came out a little bright, but two years later it’s darkened up a bit and looks quite nice. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4690/...da57a3f5_b.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4693/...4bdb77fa_b.jpg Hngggg. I let the paint cure and didn’t track any more that fall. Four events, I had a blast, car did great, albeit slow and very soft. Winter 15-16 upgrade plans were to address the latter… https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4647/...d277ecd2_b.jpg Put sleeves and 375/250 springs on the PO’s Konis. Still a compromise, but infinitely better than the previous Koni blue lowering springs that were as soft as stock. Then the next day I found this on craigslist for $500. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4682/...d1056791_b.jpg It was 10 minutes away and the guy delivered it to my house, to my mom’s delight. 93k on her. Seems like a good candidate for restoration? https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4640/...608a357c_b.jpg Nope. The internet told me all the cool kids have this engine. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4686/...35c2f1c3_b.jpg I guess those were 93k commuter miles on extended changes with conventional. This donor sat for about three years before I got it, but once I used a sketchy Russian website to get a key programmed for it and run it, it had great compression. Plus, it was a free drivetrain so I had to install it regardless. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4682/...a9e9a8db_b.jpg Built myself an MS3x. Many hours were spent on this site. Thank you. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4641/...a87312f0_b.jpg Cobbled together and functional! Never swapped an engine before, this was fun. Luckily we didn’t get much snow/salt that year so I was able to start tuning immediately. Took about two months of tweaking the DIYAT basemap before I was comfortable taking it all the way to the track. Car now has the much fresher NB 5-speed, and the NB 4.3 open diff in place of the made-of-glass vLSD. Ran NJMP Lightning for the first time. I can now outrun civics and keep pace with BRZs!? Fun track, still learning how to drive. Got the rest of my VVT starter pack installed. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4689/...bcfa0ba6_b.jpg Had the car tuned. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4738/...44605b7c_b.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4643/...b650aab8_b.jpg 134whp on the Dyno Dynamics dyno at York Automotive. Not the 140whp everyone told me I would get, the tuner said their reading is 10% low but don’t they all say that? I’m very happy with it nonetheless - I don’t think the 1.6 in this car was making more than 90whp. This is the power level this chassis deserved. Mod list at this point: 93k unopened VVT motor 3d printed intake stock throttle body squaretop raceland header test pipe RB resonated catback MS3x Stock 1.6 flywheel, 1.6 ACT HD Tracked it the next day. Highlight of my season – chasing a Focus RS around Thunderbolt: <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/gommtIN94us?start=317" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe> Winter 16-17 Didn’t do much to the car. Got really busy with senior year, plus being heavily involved with our Baja SAE team. Spent my time designing, building, and driving this racecar instead: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4725/...862a44dc_b.jpg Finally got the 1.8 brakes installed from the donor in April, a year later. Skipped history 101 on a Wednesday to try them out. Lightning again. Hawk Street/Race pads. They’re better than HP+ in every way on street and track, except wear. Killed two sets of fronts this season. The 1.6 HP+ lasted two seasons/8 days. Track Night lived up to its reputation this time. An E36 spun out of the last corner and went tail-first into the inside wall lap one of my first session. My last session was black flagged for two cars getting together. T1 is over a blind crest, looked to me like the STI spun in 1 and the BRZ wasn’t able to avoid T-boning him. Both looked totaled, but everyone was alright. Worst damage I’ve seen yet in an HPDE. Coincidentally, I haven’t been to another TNiA. You can see the aftermath in the last few seconds of this video. Took the car to school. Someone didn’t like it. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4735/...739ae924_b.jpg June ’17. Graduated. I’m now a mechanical engineer. Got a job. Have surprisingly little additional free time. I guess I can technically now afford a more proper build, but the theme of this project won’t change much. Mid-season (if you can call it that after one event) refresh. I bought poly bushings on ebay, and zerks from harbor freight. Budget build vibes still going strong. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4739/...681ccdf4_b.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4595/...ddcb81a2_b.jpg While I was on eBay I got a bare torsen for cheap. Put my 4.3 ring gear on it. Watch this autocross run from before, you’ll know why I needed one: Rebuilt my AC and converted to R134a. I’ve used it once so far. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4679/...75367a5c_b.jpg Also depowered the rack. I didn’t like it at first. Went and got a new alignment, from 6.5 to 3.5 deg caster, and camber up to 3/2.8. Once I hit the track, I loved it. I never understood just how much feedback you lose with PS until now. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4639/...36221d4f_b.jpg At this point, the car feels really solid with the dead bushings gone and no BS assistance in the middle of the steering system. On the street it’s planted and nimble. Confidence inspiring on the track. Despite the “coilovers” that most of you probably rolled your eyes at, it does shockingly well in both settings. Granted, I’ve never driven anything better than Vmax. The goal for the rest of 2017 was to keep the car alive and drive as much as possible. Made it to six events for eight days of driving this year: Lightning, Shenandoah x2, Summit Point main (new!), Thunderbolt, Summit. Didn’t do much else to this car. It was nice. ^ Best run of the season. My first time at Summit main, and my first event with NASA. Great group, I will be doing more events with them next year. Itching for some wheel-to-wheel. A friend from high school who is an “amateur” photographer also starting coming to events with me. He’s pretty good. I’ll have to find some more of his shots later. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4727/...0e71729a_b.jpg https://scottybennett.photoshelter.com/index |
Winter 17-18, here we are:
· Tires I’ve been running the same set of ZIIs on this car since 2014. They really stopped gripping this season, but they also stopped wearing, so I didn’t stop driving them. For next season, I scored a deal on these secondhand, but unused. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4646/...9e8159c4_b.jpg They won’t fit on my 15x7s though… · Brakes Killed two sets of Hawk street/race this year. I like them a lot but still don’t quite have 100% confidence in my brake system. Time to upgrade to one of the big boy pads. TBD. · Engine Take a look at my rear bumper. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4601/...710757cd_b.jpg (Photobombed) Yep, that low-miles motor is burning oil. It’s been getting worse, and its past a quart per tank, or half a quart in a 20 minute session. To the point of being dangerous. Here we go again… https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4679/...a5186409_b.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4643/...c0e6acf0_b.jpg Yep, rings. Suspicions confirmed. All four pistons have those clean edges, that’s a sure sign of poor oil control, right? https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4685/...49cab6b2_b.jpg Weird oxidation in some of the bores. Some near the top and some at the bottom of the stroke. That downtime didn’t do this engine any favors. Minimal wear though. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4638/...9cddbf8c_b.jpg Bearings still minty. I shouldn’t have to do this. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4686/...3c98986f_b.jpg Already got the block back. Kept it at 83mm. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4640/...71c5c977_b.jpg Had the crank balanced while it was out. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4727/...08b9ac91_b.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4646/...0791af21_b.jpg Where I’m at currently. Decided to port the head myself. Not doing anything extreme with it, cleaned up the casting and blended the bowls in pretty nicely. Exhaust ports are polished. Currently waiting on a new alignment dowel for the head so I can mark up the chambers to deshroud the valves a bit. Then I’ll polish the cambers and send it off for a valve job. Decided to stop myself short of lapping the valves myself. Now that we’ve caught up, here’s my plan for the build. This is mostly keeping with my theme from the beginning, but with the bar for “budget” raised slightly. I don’t want to give up any on-track reliability, or too much street drivability with this engine, so it’s staying N/A on 93 octane. · JDM NB2 pistons, 10.5:1 · ~.02” off the head for 11:1 compression · eBay rods · billet oil pump · ACL race bearings · Volvo VS855 valve springs · Mild head porting · Coolant reroute I think I can cap this at 7600 rpm and not have to worry about it again for more than a few years. Could probably go a lot higher with SUBs, but the stock lifters and cheap valve springs are easy to upgrade later. I’ll at least have a solid bottom end. |
Also, I didn't realize how gross Flickr embedding is on this site. I'll clean it up and switch to imgur or something in the future.
Thanks to anyone who read this far. I'm open to suggestions on my engine plans, and anything else really. Already ordered parts but there's still time for changes if I've done something dumb. |
For Flickr, I use the "share" button, then after pasting into the post, delete everything except for what's in between (and including) the [IMG ] [/IMG ] tags.
Looks nice and well thought out. Props for Baja! I was on both my schools Baja and FSAE team. |
Good work so far. Like the Baja car, what school did you go to? I helped some with Baja, but was mostly FSAE.
When bores get corroded like that, the rings wear out real quick. That's probably where your oil consumption comes from. You might also consider ARP studs, to future proof the engine for anything. |
Looking good!
I've been on the same path myself and got mine up and running with the VVT engine last spring. Hard to beat the basic Supermiata formula! |
I'm still torn on whether I want to swap the VVT engine I have into my NB1. My NB1 engine is starting to get tired and the NB2 engine I have will most likely need a rebuild itself anyway, so I'm not sure which direction to go. The VVT engine certainly looks right at home in your car though, that's for sure!
Awesome build so far! 2018 will by my first year back with NASA after a hiatus, so maybe I'll see you at Summit. |
Nice work, subbed! I like a beater as much as the next guy, but something about a nicer, cleaner track car, it gets the people going
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Thanks all.
Originally Posted by cal_len1
(Post 1459571)
Good work so far. Like the Baja car, what school did you go to? I helped some with Baja, but was mostly FSAE.
When bores get corroded like that, the rings wear out real quick. That's probably where your oil consumption comes from. You might also consider ARP studs, to future proof the engine for anything. I've never seen corrosion like that before but it makes sense. I took a closer look at the block and a lot of it is still visible after honing, although I can't feel it at all. Should I get it re-done or is it not a problem as long as the surface is consistent? The shop didn't say anything to me about it.
Originally Posted by Quigs
(Post 1459595)
I'm still torn on whether I want to swap the VVT engine I have into my NB1. My NB1 engine is starting to get tired and the NB2 engine I have will most likely need a rebuild itself anyway, so I'm not sure which direction to go. The VVT engine certainly looks right at home in your car though, that's for sure!
Awesome build so far! 2018 will by my first year back with NASA after a hiatus, so maybe I'll see you at Summit. Finished the combustion chamber work tonight. Took a small amount of material off around the valves, not a lot to work with at stock bore size though. Also polished up the chambers for good measure. I'll drop it off at the machine shop on Friday. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4594/...c35f710c_b.jpg |
Originally Posted by add lightness
(Post 1459838)
I've never seen corrosion like that before but it makes sense. I took a closer look at the block and a lot of it is still visible after honing, although I can't feel it at all. Should I get it re-done or is it not a problem as long as the surface is consistent? The shop didn't say anything to me about it.
Anecdotally, at work, I have seen engines where 4 cylinders were corroded, and 2 were not (6 cylinder, with open valves due to where the engine stopped). There was a very distinct amount of measured ring wear difference between the two. |
Small update. Got the head back, ended up taking .022 off of it. I neglected to cc the piston crowns before disassembly, but assuming stock 10:1 CR is accurate, that puts me at 10.56:1 with just the shave. Add .5 with new pistons plus a little wiggle room for them supposedly being lower than advertised, and it should be close to 11:1 all said and done. Will measure everything once I get the pistons. Those are another month out, everything else is completely ready for final assembly. Putting the head together tomorrow. Getting impatient, ugh.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4664/...f94715a7_b.jpg Wow. Freakin clean. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4769/...9e73a2be_b.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4608/...241401a6_b.jpg Decided to try one of the eBay knockoff throttle bodies. Ported my squaretop to match. Still need to disassemble the TB and inspect it. After all this porting I was really tempted to clean up the casting in the IM runners... Couldn't quite reach all the way in with the dremel so I didn't. I suppose there's such a thing as going too far. Question time! I have two clutch setups to choose from:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4616/...190d171d_b.jpg Warning, I'm probably way overthinking this. So, I really want to use the aluminum flywheel to speed the revs up a little bit. Downside is the 1.8 disc is both heavier and larger OD, so likely much higher inertia than the 1.6 ACT. This will increase synchro wear on fast shifts and slow the 'natural shift speed' of the trans, if you will. I thought the ACT setup was fairly well balanced as far as rpm change vs shift speed, so I'm not sure I want to add inertia to one side and remove it from the other, but I really have no idea how much of a difference it would make. I do have an 8lb Fidanza with OEM 1.6 clutch in the blue car, and while the flywheel is great, the revs do drop just a little too quickly compared to how quickly the gearbox wants to shift. Anyone ever put any thought into this? I collected some data. The 1.8 disc is 1360g, the ACT 1.6 disc is 960g, and a new OEM 1.6 disc is 1030g, for reference. I don't have a scale to measure the PPs or FWs. I did make some quick models of the flywheels to get an idea, though: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4716/...39ffb78e_b.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4616/...7afaff58_b.jpg Weights seem about right, so we'll call it accurate enough. So 36% less inertia in the Al flywheel. Unfortunately I don't have the patience to model the other parts. Even with the bigger PP negating some of that savings, it should be a significant difference on the engine side. I tried to measure the inertia of the entire assemblies by hanging a mass off them and measuring its acceleration, but there was too much difference in friction between the two bearings, and a tape measure and stop watch is a terrible timing system. Trying to come up with a better way to get some numbers. |
I enjoyed reading your posts! Keep up the good work.
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Nice build! Where did you score the JDM pistons, ebay?
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Thanks guys.
Originally Posted by eurojulien
(Post 1464053)
Nice build! Where did you score the JDM pistons, ebay?
Started putting the head together last weekend. Had to order some shims, and finished it all up yesterday. Fortunately the clearances came out perfectly the first try. Installed the Trackspeed water neck delete, and the head is done and ready to go on! I did go with the "volvo" valve springs. They measure out nearly identically to the online specs for Supertech heavy doubles. I'll post up some details when I get back to my other computer. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4668/...05cc1eff_b.jpg I cc'd the combustion chambers again, and they came out to 50.5-51cc. Pre-teardown was 51-51.5cc... I guess the machine shop didn't shave my head the .022" I asked for - should've put it around 48.5-49cc. I don't think I removed nearly that much material from the cambers. Oh well. I'm considering other options, but I'm not taking the head back apart to have it machined again. Put together some other subassemblies - hoping for a marathon weekend of assembly, install, and break-in once the pistons arrive. I'm running out of prep to do! Hawley performance reroute spacer: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4667/...d6de6abf_c.jpg Ebay knockoff throttle body. Decided to try one of these. After cleaning it thoroughly, upgrading most of the hardware, and putting loctite on everything, I'm comfortable giving it a shot. It will be monitored closely. Gotta love that billet bling. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4610/...e90911e6_c.jpg |
Nice car, saw it on track at the 2 WDCR Shenandoah events last year but didn't get a chance to check it out more closely. Hope to see you out there this year.
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Finally, time for a legitimate update. Pistons arrived last week! Such JDM, yo. 3 of the 4 were within 0.3g of 310g, one was 2.5g over. Weight matched them all to 0.1g.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4652/...2a00696f_b.jpg Finally time for assembly! All the parts are here, everything is clean, measured and ready to bolt together. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4648/...16c40f2c_b.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4769/...6de4c951_b.jpg Japan + China ... Why not? Masterful RTV-ing. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4746/...af25b896_b.jpg And the bottom end is done! https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4766/...d998f8d0_b.jpg Dat dome. Then, I went to put the head on and turns out my NB1 head gasket is actually an NB2... No bueno with the reroute. Ordered an OEM which should be in by the middle of the week. I've only been staring at these piles of parts for a month now, something had to go wrong, right? My backordered Mazda Comp motor mounts also just shipped on Friday, so at least I won't have to do that job twice in a week. I think I can put the two halves of this thing together and dress it this week, and then we'll drop it in and cross our fingers this weekend. Really looking forward to driving this car again! Oh, while I had nothing to do I also finally checked rear wheel bearings and hubs off the list. They seemed fine but were original and the Weekend of Failure thread convinced me... probably for good reason. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4678/...c6fee335_b.jpg The grease in those bearings was straight sludge... wow. There's very few parts left on this car without an indefinite service life I haven't replaced at this point... pretty satisfying.
Originally Posted by milkmandan
(Post 1465932)
Nice car, saw it on track at the 2 WDCR Shenandoah events last year but didn't get a chance to check it out more closely. Hope to see you out there this year.
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Another big update! Lost a bunch of time thanks to Priority Mail 1-day turning into low-priority 1-week delivery, but I have a proper head gasket now:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4787/...996049cb_c.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4799/...8c602f90_c.jpg + internet points, right? https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4781/...afd3daa9_c.jpg And just like that, a BP6D was (re)born. MazdaComp motor mounts came in just in time for this. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4785/...075cd96d_c.jpg Decided to give the kevlar clutch a try. We'll see if there's any noticeable difference on the shifter end of things now that I'm paying attention for it. Also see the Hawley performance reroute spacer graced with an Esclade hose. This thing made dropping the motor in way more of a pain! Had to knock off the speedo cable mounting tab to get just enough wiggle room against the firewall to get the motor mounts to slip in. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4777/...1b4bdae9_c.jpg Slip in, they did. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4774/...e0b6f8e1_c.jpg AND IT'S DONE! I plan on cleaning up the spaghetti on the cold side at some point, but for now it isn't going anywhere. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4798/...41ea11c0_c.jpg Of course I took it for a drive immediately... https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4791/...ce9f0dfa_c.jpg (success video ^) Cranked it for about 30 seconds until it made an impressive 50psi of oil pressure at starter speed. Then the plugs went back in, and it started up on the first try! This was so awesome, I can't believe it just worked. And it was so smooth and quiet too! So I took it out and did about 40 miles, loading it up then pulling lots of vacuum. Ran pretty well with no changes to the tune - idle and AE will need some adjustment, and it was going lean above 4k at 70-80 kPa so I didn't really take it above 4500 RPM. Sounds and feels really good though, and no cloud of blue smoke behind me! The old-school FM clutch feels good, somewhat lighter pedal and softer engagement than the ACT, not sure which I prefer yet. Crappy AE masks the lighter flywheel for now. Issues - when I pulled back into the garage there was some ticking noise from the passenger rear of the head. Already rechecked valve lash and it hasn't moved, so I'm not sure what the cause is. I don't want to run it again until I change the oil, then I'll diagnose. Had a total of three leaks... heater core pipe, expected, I kinda crushed it, already fixed. And the only two gaskets I forgot to replace... are both leaking :o. Fortunately easy ones, trans output seal and the o-ring on the back of the factory oil warmer. Waiting to change the oil and assemble the front bodywork until those come in. USPS again decided that wouldn't be this weekend, unfortunately. I was hoping to have the car done for a shakedown at Lightning on the 23rd, but I'm going to Sebring this week to see some real race cars, so that definitely isn't happening now. Roads are still salty here and we're due for some more snow tomorrow, though, so that's really a lost cause anyway! |
Looking good!
You can use a brake line bender to carefully point the fuel hard lines on the chassis forward and you can shorten up the rubber lines quite a bit. |
Guys... did I fuck up?
Got a ticking sound... sounds a lot like a collapsed HLA. Tried to isolate with the screwdriver trick but wasn't very helpful. I want to say it's coming from the bottom end around cylinder 1 though. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4788/...df1793a6_c.jpg Dirty side of oil filter, first fill, 40 miles. Some very tiny particles were attracted to a magnet, what you can see wasn't. Thoughts, please? |
That stuff is way too big for break-in and big enough to chew up your cam journals. Typically break-in oil requires smearing on some white paper to get a view of the metal. I would stop running it and start investigating. Check for damage- Use a scope to look at the cylinder walls. Pull cam caps. Manually rotate the crank with plugs out to see if you can feel anything. If that stuff looks good, then check compression with plugs out and listen for your click.
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mechanic's stethoscope to narrow down the location of the tick?
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Ok, I picked up both of those tools today. Using the stethoscope I can isolate it to cylinder 2 - I can hear it best probing the freeze plug and area on the block below it on the exhaust side. Less audible from 1 and 3 area. Nothing from the head.
The borescope revealed a lot of wear marks like this, in all four cylinders - https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4782/...660746b1_z.jpg Is that normal? It's not all the way around, but a fairly wide swath. I also don't know what's up with all the oil and residue on the pistons already... I took the cam caps off and it looks like all of them are showing wear like this. Worst being intake 2 and exhaust 4 with the embedded stuff, some aren't as bad. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4782/...cc1c00cf_c.jpg https://farm1.staticflickr.com/802/3...81d8a3f9_c.jpg What came out of the filter: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4773/...b7398a7b_c.jpg So I need to do two things:
Is this head trashed?? Is there anything I can do to save these parts? |
What I think I see in your photos below. Also consider how these parts have changed since the engine was built and run.
- Cams/caps look ok. I have had a machine shop micro polish cams and clean up a lot of the scratching. Dragging your fingernail across the grooves will help determine what a micro polish will clean up. If your nail catches any grooves, the polish is only going to remove the peaks and soften the edges. It does not look like any of the metal debris I saw on in the filter photo has accumulated in the cam caps. Yay. - Cylinder wall - I've had the vertical marks in walls from the piston skirts, but in engines that had several races on them. Of course those would also be on the wall areas perpendicular to the piston pin. These like evidence of debris, but do look like they could be honed out. - Piston - It might be the scope image quality, but the piston top and edge looks pitted and I assume they weren't like that out of the box. That said, it looks consistent across the top so I'm hesitant to call it detonation. My guess: you have bearing wear that has contaminated your oil and has just started to caused minor wear on walls and cams. I want to sat the click is early rod knock, but I can't explain why there isn't more wear on one cylinder wall than the others. You definitely need to figure out what the knock is. Did you rotate the crank manually and hear the click, or was that with the engine running? At this point, my next move would be on the safe side and open the engine, to avoid further/greater damage. |
I most likely missed it from the previous posts. Is this a fresh build? Those vertical marks don't look like they go through the cross hatch, so I'm not so worried about those. In fact, on pretty much every new engine, if you pull it apart after only a short amount of run time, you will see those vertical marks from the rings.
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Really appreciate the input guys. Yes, fresh build top to bottom, total of 40 miles on it.
I could only hear the sound with the engine running. I took the plugs out and spun it back and forth by hand and couldn't produce any similar noise in any position. The piston tops appear oily to me, and those 'pits' you see are deposits. Picture was taken after idling for a minute. I need to investigate more closely. No signs of oil down the exhaust valve stems, yet to remove intake manifold. I got off work early so I took the engine back out today. Time to change the thread title to 'Project do everything twice'. Album of bearings: https://flic.kr/s/aHsky3rfRs Bearing wear indeed. What I see: rods are all worn. I want to say rod 2 looks the worst, being worn through the gray layer to the shiny layer over more area than the others. The other 3 are also worn through the brown layer to the gray layer over most of their area, with some deeper scratches down to the shiny layer. The scratches are of course from debris, but what could have caused the large wear areas? Too little or poor quality assembly lube? Could debris left over elsewhere in the engine cause that wear? Improperly seated bearing or too little clearance? IIRC they all plastigauged out to .0015". 3 rod journals have 1-2 light scratches that barely catch your fingernail. Didn't get any pics of this. Does this need to be polished or turned, or can I get away without? The mains mostly look ok, getting worse from front to back. Mostly looks like debris scratches. What concerns me is the front edge of 4 and 5, both have a significant but narrow wear band there. What is this?? Main journals are all fine, crank thrust faces look fine, I haven't pulled the thrust bearing yet to check it. Looking from the bottom, all four bores have the vertical scratches, all the way around but more intense perpendicular to the pin. I couldn't get a hand in there to feel it, but it doesn't look as bad from this side. I'll try something else to feel it tomorrow, trying not to remove the head if possible. SO, looking for root cause, do the rod bearings look like they failed first and the damage compounded, or did foreign debris initiate the bearing failure? What should I be looking for? |
Definitely try to get any scratches polished. Bring your parts back to as close to "original" as you can. Machine shop will be able to tell you what they can do for it. I want to say thrust bearing issue given the "front edge of 4 and 5...have a significant but narrow wear band".
Some of the photos look like bearing wear is biased to specific areas, yet other photos look like consistent wear. IF there is inconsistent wear on a bearing, then that could be the source. fwiw- I used plastigauge on my first engine build and got burned by a bad (or lack of) machining job. After that, I bought a set of gauges so I could check not only clearance but also roundness. Something plastigauge doesn't do. Though imo you shouldn't have to double check machine shop work. If I found the metal in my filter, and found damage to bearings, I'd tear the engine down just to ensure that all the debris is removed. Any debris has a good chance of ruining the cylinder head. I'd start over so that every step along the way was fresh, not leaving anything unknown. It may not be necessary, but what if it is? ;) I think you can be thankful that you stopped when you did and have an engine that appears to be mostly (thrust?) salvageable for a re-rebuild. |
Thanks for the input, m2. So I ended up tearing the engine down again. Didn't take any pictures, because, well, it was a little less exciting this time. Didn't find much else other than the bearings in the last post. Some wear in the cam journals, and the scratches in the cylinders were visible in all four, but not deep. My theory is that the head and/or block wasn't cleaned out well enough after machining and leftover debris initiated the damage. So I stripped everything completely down again, bought a solvent sprayer from Harbor Freight, and cleaned everything that touches oil. Pulled the oil galley plugs out of the block, which I neglected to do for the shop last time, and spent a lot of time on the crank passages. Had the crank and cam journals repolished.
Buttoned it back up with new rod and main bearings, and it still runs. The noise is, well, almost gone. There's still a light ticking from the bottom end but I think I'm just being paranoid at this point, and have elected to just run it. I've got about 250 miles on it now and haven't had any issues. VE is dialed back in and, as far as feel goes, it's fantastic. Already running at least as well as before the rebuild, if not better. Power is noticeably, uh, more. I have an opportunity for a dyno run next weekend so we'll find out exactly how much more soon. I'll share some driving impressions and videos soon too. In other news, I snagged one of Goodwin's last sets of 15x9 Konig Helix, and finally got the RS4s mounted on them today. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4c61f58a14.jpg Looks. So. Proper. Daisies hurt my soul, can't wait to never mount a set again. Wasn't able to get ahold of the communal fender roller today so this is just a quick test fit until next week. After that, I just need to make a decision on brake pads, get a few more miles on the motor, and it'll be ready for the track!! |
dope
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LOVE this thread. Nice work man.
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Well I was reminded that this thread is due for an update. Much progress has been made!
I got the fenders rolled, and the wheels actually installed. Then I broke out the detailing gear and polished the paint back up for a car show my friends were hosting, where I had the dyno runs scheduled. It proceeded to rain and that was cancelled. Oh well, the paint had been taking a beating and it finally looks good again. All the oil residue even came off the rear bumper! https://farm1.staticflickr.com/885/4...568824cf_b.jpg Wheels really transform the look of a car more than anything else, IMO. I really wanted bronze Jongbloeds but these were superior in every category besides looks. They're growing on me really quickly... maybe just because they fit so much better than x7s. Decided the engine is fine, so I drove the car some. Tuned VE some more, got CL idle and AC control working better than before. Determined that my VVT advance range has shifted, and is now ~5* retarded relative to where it was before. This was causing it to peg at max duty trying to advance from -5 to 0, which it doesn't have the oil pressure to do, so I had a nasty valvetrain rattle at idle and low-rpm overrun. Shifted the range in the settings and all is fine. I ran out of time for break-in and switched to Mobil1 at 500 miles. Bought another set of street/race for the front to hold me over on brake upgrades a little longer. Took Tuesday off and drove up to NJMP in the rain for a Track Night in America. It was nice and steamy so I even got to test the AC. It was dry at the track when we got there, and I ended up getting two dry sessions, and the last session in the wet. My photographer friend came with me again and got some really sweet shots: https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1754/...f75c6466_b.jpg https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1746/...c5627837_b.jpg https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1740/...87d3f24d_b.jpg Second dry session, one of my better laps (5:30): And the wet session: This was my first ever wet driving event, never even done a wet autocross before. Not sure how I've managed that in the mid-Atlantic. It was fun! There was no grip! So I was expecting, like, 75% grip in the wet. It was more like 35%. Going into the esses on my out lap and already getting understeer, I could tell it was going to be exciting. I was taking it easy in the braking zones, but even at a seemingly slow pace, the front was on the verge of understeer, and the rear ready to kick out on exit of every turn. Only one near-off into turn 1. Excellent lesson on car control, reminds me I really need to work on smoother inputs. Really wouldn't have minded an entire wet event! We can stop talking about engine issues now. Goals include driving the car. I'd like to look into data/telemetry setups. Suspension adjustments and maybe upgrades. More to come, it should be a fun summer! |
Looking good! Glad to see the update. Might I suggest a head and neck restraint to round out the current safety equipment?
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Judging from the pictures and your commentary it needs stronger springs to keep it off the bumpstops when cornering. When you add tire you have to add spring, which means you have to add shock damping. It's a spiral.
I wouldn't use Mobil 1 for turbo track duty, but that's another thread. Car looks good! |
his car isn't turbo
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Originally Posted by MiataMan00
(Post 1484237)
his car isn't turbo
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Originally Posted by sixshooter
That's sad.
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Much sadness abound.
So I took the Miata camping this weekend! https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1790/...7c83c180_c.jpg Oh yea, the campsite was Summit Point. http://www.catesracing.com/flp/track...2/IMG_3850.JPG Once again it was likely the hottest weekend of the year... but the heat doesn't bother me much so it was a lot of fun! Well, Saturday at least. This was my first event with Trackdaze and their ridiculous 4hrs/day of track time. The car was great despite the temperature nearing 100F, only hitting 208F CLT, despite the little plastic radiator. I wanted to get an oil temp sensor installed before this event to get some data, but didn't get to it. I'd still like to install an oil cooler, however. Need to research that topic more. Sunday morning the car wouldn't start! Acted like it was flooding and it took me until lunch to get it started. When it did, it was running super rich, around 12:1 at idle. Couldn't find anything in the data, so my best guess was a sticking injector. I found a generous racer with some spares, and swapped through all four of mine, without success. It seemed to lean back out some above 2k, so we accepted defeat and called it a day, and I had a fairly calm 130 mile limp home. At least a massive tow bill was avoided and I've added a few items to the spare parts list, but my first track day failure, and missing an entire day, was pretty damn disappointing. Looking through the data again at home, I found a higher commanded PW from the MS than usual, and higher MAP. Dry compression test showed ~60 psi on 3 cylinders! After some research, I tore it down today to see if the intake cam had retarded itself a tooth. Instead of that, I found fresh wear on the base of the intake cam lobes! Sure enough, lash had completely closed up on 6 of the 8 intake valves, while all 8 exhaust valves are right where I left them. I last checked lash at 40 miles, and it hadn't changed. I now have 1400 miles and 3 track hours on the motor. I assume this isn't normal? Hopefully with valves that actually close, it will still make compression, start, and make vacuum. We shall see. Didn't get to push quite as hard as I wanted behind the wheel because I gave a couple rides on Saturday. Best lap was about 1:30. I still was able to get way more comfortable with how the suspension handles the new grip level - it absolutely needs more spring, but doesn't drive badly by any means. Still need to push my braking way deeper, was hoping to work on that Sunday as well. The aero difference is pretty impressive when topless - I'm almost 5mph down despite 10-20 hp gain and more grip out of turn 10.
Originally Posted by __clu
(Post 1484203)
Looking good! Glad to see the update. Might I suggest a head and neck restraint to round out the current safety equipment?
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Well I ended up having to rebuild the head again.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/927/4...38f92768_c.jpg All 8 intake valves looked like this. Completely destroyed. Numerous people have reported destroying intake valves or seats in VVT heads when adding RPM on a stock valvetrain, but I don't think that happened here. I measured all of the volvo valve springs after the teardown on a digital spring tester and they hadn't changed measurably. I don't have the numbers handy, but they have very similar seat pressure and spring rate as the Supertech heavy double springs. That's a lot more spring than stock. Rev limiter only at 7500 still. Not the typical valve float issue? 3 track hours, 1500 miles on the head. Took it to a different machine shop and our best assessment was that the last shop cut one of the angles wrong. Seats were wide and surprisingly unworn. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1889/...ede47df5_c.jpg Anyway, had the intake seats reground and put new valves in it. 500 miles and an autocross on the new, new head, and it's running extremely strong. In other news, decided to finally spend some money getting the handling right. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1863/...315b604a_c.jpg Scored these AFCOs for a very reasonable price from a local guy. Stock 550/375 rates, an improvement. RB 1.125x.125 front sway kit showed up in the mail too! The car has still been wearing the PO's 15/16" solid front and 16mm solid rear bars all this time. It's not as loose as the internet would have you believe, but I wanted to get closer to the recommended front roll stiffness bias to give me more confidence to throw the car into turns and trail brake on track. I'll stick with the 16mm rear on the soft setting for now. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1843/...ffd645a9_c.jpg https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1880/...66e45725_c.jpg Also added an oil temp sensor to my PLX wideband/gauge setup, and wired it into the MS3 for logging. Expect to see an oil cooler install this winter... Now it's September and I've done two whole events... Gonna try to hit them hard this fall. Already registered for Track Night in America at NJMP Lightning next week, and NASA at Dominion next weekend. If all goes well, I REALLY want to make it to VIR with NASA on Oct 6-7. And then the NASA Fall Finale at Summit. |
So I just fell on this thread and I love what you have done so far! Great work! also more interested in the mariner but thats because i also have one and it is on bronze jongbloeds. But keep it up!!
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Originally Posted by MaineMiata91
(Post 1500346)
So I just fell on this thread and I love what you have done so far! Great work! also more interested in the mariner but thats because i also have one and it is on bronze jongbloeds. But keep it up!!
Anyway, build thread update time again. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1938/...765e6309_b.jpg I'm not a regular at the DMV Miatas group meets due to distance, but I went to the yearly Mid-Atlantic Miata Expo this year. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1950/...70fc68a0_b.jpg It rained, but was still really great to meet a bunch of you guys and see some internet famous cars. There's a lot of little creative things people do that you notice in real life, but not online. Like these seats covered in my parents' old sofa from 1992. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1933/...4d474bea_b.jpg CLEAN. I like this, and I hate grey cars. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1905/...d71fe369_b.jpg Then I went back to NJMP Lightning. It rained. It also lightninged, so I didn't get to drive. Boo. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1964/...99542b74_b.jpg Then I went to the new Dominion Raceway in Virginia for the first time! It rained, a lot. I drove all 8 sessions though. I think I had more grip than most on the RS4s, but it was an exercise in car control either way. One dry session each day for a chance to really feel the track out. It's a really fun course - better than I was expecting after hearing a lot of mediocre feedback from others. The walls are pretty intimidating though, I'll give it that. Overall, it's good but not worth driving the same distance as Summit... <iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fsa mmy.scott.986%2Fvideos%2F2478135685746140%2F&show_ text=0&width=560" width="560" height="315" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe> With a couple hours on the motor, I went ahead and signed up for NASA's Oktoberfast at VIR! I've been wanting to get here for a long time. Left straight from work on Friday and the 300 mile drive took 7 hours thanks to DC traffic. With ear plugs, the car is still totally livable on the street. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1933/...b69fc490_b.jpg https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1937/...77d72c20_b.jpg What a fantastic facility. VIR absolutely blows everything else in the DMV out of the water. The property is beautiful, the course is phenomenal, I love it. And it didn't rain! The car was great other than one major problem - on my very first hot lap, the LF brake line blew out going into 1. I made it most of the way through the braking zone before the pedal went straight to the floor. So, I almost made the turn but went off sideways and looped it in the dirt. Frightening, but fairly low speed by the time I was actually off. Extremely grateful this happened in a good spot, and while I was still going very slow. And not at Dominon! Also fortunately, none other than Rossini themselves were there with piles of spares so I could get back on track... and home. Missed two sessions because of this. The car already had braided lines from the PO that looked in fair condition, but I didn't know their true age so really should have replaced them. Needless to say, new Supermiata lines are already sitting in my garage. Many lessons were learned here. Other than that, the car did fantastic. The engine ran great without a single tweak to the tune needed. The AFCOs are a huge upgrade, the body is much more controlled and precise. Balance is much better with the bigger front bar. I'm done with Hawk pads and tried something different in the front with lower friction - they felt really nice with the extra pressure required but I had too much rear bias with the hawks still out back. Replacements for those parts are also waiting to go in. A ~2:22 lap was one of my better ones. I was leaving a lot on the table, mostly on the brakes, but the 6 hour drive home was heavy in the back of my mind the rest of the weekend. Still an absolute blast going flat through the esses in 5th, and carving down the rollercoaster. Lots of good clean action in DE3 this time too! One more event this year - Fall Finale at Summit next month! I also need to get the car back on a dyno, both to see what I built, and what it might take to get this thing eligible for TT. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1937/...ce58d634_b.jpg |
Solid thread, good read, also jealous of all the tracks you're hitting. I'm getting ready to build a motor and I'm definitely dreading those first couple hundred miles, sucks that you had to do everything more than once, but good job keeping at it.
Now just drive the shit out of it, cheers. EDIT: Also if you need help planning for TT, post here and I can help with classing. |
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