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Old 01-21-2017, 11:07 PM   #1
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Default EFR6258 vs stock rods, round 1

Hi.

Figured I would start a build thread to truly emphasize my lack of knowledge.

I started with the best NA miata I could find. This is my 4th one, I am 21. I've owned many cars, but my real love is with 70's JDM cars. The miata is a perfect car to learn and explore with until I have the base to find a clean chassis and build it right, probably the next few years as I build my online nutrition/fitness/powerlifting business.

Started with the obvious






Will have photos of the 6258 soon I hope...
Goal is low low 6-8psi on my stock 94 block, get ebay rods, basic build/refresh and 300whp street car. That would be after the Xidas. And 15x10 and 245s. And about $3000 more, so not much, but takes time with school and such.
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Old 01-21-2017, 11:32 PM   #2
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Old 01-21-2017, 11:59 PM   #3
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Why don't you build the engine first and boost it with a smaller turbo for a while and save up and get the 6258 when your build can actually support it?
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Old 01-22-2017, 12:15 AM   #4
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Because what's the point of wasting money.
Nothing wrong with his plans. Do it right the 1st time, build everything around it to support the addiction.

that datsun. it made me feel so warm and fuzzy
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Old 01-22-2017, 12:16 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
Why don't you build the engine first and boost it with a smaller turbo for a while and save up and get the 6258 when your build can actually support it?
It is what I've got already, as in, already owned. I don't think it'll be detrimental, although may to my rods if I push too much through it, to my current goals on the stock block which is just 200whp and under 200wtq. The 6258 is way too big for that, so we will see what happens on the dyno with teh low boost actuator.
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Old 01-22-2017, 12:18 AM   #6
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Because what's the point of wasting money.
Nothing wrong with his plans. Do it right the 1st time, build everything around it to support the addiction.

that datsun. it made me feel so warm and fuzzy
That was my orignal thoughts. Manifold, turbo, downpipe and exhaust I'd never have to change out. Saves me cash in the long run even though it is more up front. Will give me similar response of a 2560, so I figured why not.

Happy to see you enjoy them as well. I've owned twp, but not happy stories.
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Old 01-22-2017, 12:32 AM   #7
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Fair enough. I spaced for a minute and forgot that it would be a totally different manifold etc as well. I guess the efr spools well enough that it's going to be fun as is even without the built engine.

And yeah. That datsun is the ****.
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Old 01-22-2017, 12:37 PM   #8
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Probably the most recent build I've loved following, a te25/27 Corolla powered by the favorite engine choice of these 70's tiny Toyota, a 13b. but not your normal carb'd up one, but a 13brew, which is the RX7 FD engine for those that don't know probably pushing a healthy 200-300whp as it sits now and the car would roughly weigh 1600-1900lbs. Fitted with the rx7 cluster as well. It looks sweet on the inside but can't find a good photo of the dash.


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Old 01-22-2017, 02:16 PM   #9
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I like the datsun a lot more than that, but I can respect it. Looks like it'd be a fun car to drive!

Looking forward to your build!

Edit: The reason I was also asking was that a taco taco manifold and chinacharger would work with whatever exhaust you wanted to run in the long run with a custom downpipe. You could likely sell all that stuff for a loss of a hundred bucks or, or just buy it used to begin with.

I guess you're less concerned with the health of the rods than I am because you plan on replacing things, while I don't personally want to have to go there if I can avoid it.

Your timeline of built engine in the 'next few years' is what made me question your decision. It just seems like a long time to restrain yourself given that what you have on there already will be begging for you to turn it up haha. Hopefully the finance side of things aligns up well for you and you can build up an engine on the side while this is going on!

Last edited by ridethecliche; 01-22-2017 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 01-22-2017, 03:45 PM   #10
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The reason I was also asking was that a taco taco manifold and chinacharger would work with whatever exhaust you wanted to run in the long run with a custom downpipe. You could likely sell all that stuff for a loss of a hundred bucks or, or just buy it used to begin with.

I guess you're less concerned with the health of the rods than I am because you plan on replacing things, while I don't personally want to have to go there if I can avoid it.

Your timeline of built engine in the 'next few years' is what made me question your decision. It just seems like a long time to restrain yourself given that what you have on there already will be begging for you to turn it up haha. Hopefully the finance side of things aligns up well for you and you can build up an engine on the side while this is going on!
I would rather not destroy my block quickly, I am guessing to run the bare minimum one the 6258, find a VVT and do a simple rods build; if funds permitted with a local "blown head gasket" type deal, but it seems most local VVT want like $1000 in SoCal-- which is just insane. Maybe I am not looking hard enough. Maybe just a stock 99/00 head with a squaretop manifold would give me enough? I really want to increase the flow on the top end if I am building the engine to make 300whp, it could probably make 330whp if I changed up the intake manifold to something that worked at the same boost pressure.

I have pretty easy access to a foundry, my step-dad owns it, and going into school for an engineering degree has always had me wondering if I could make up an intake manifold and get it cast for cheap, since it isn't a very large foundry and small jobs are common. Maybe for a handful of other guys as well to bring costs down. But I don't have the skills or ability to build it in a CAD yet.

I debated for probably 8 months on which turbo/manifold and such to jump into this with; and I am one of those "spend more upfront" kind of guys. Just sits better with me when it comes time to keep spending money. It isn't quite like running a gt2871r at the bare minimum which would likely be terrible at everything, the 6258 will hopefully be happy with keeping at that 6-8psi range.
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Old 01-22-2017, 04:07 PM   #11
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Oh, I'm fully aware of how nicely the 6258 spools. My thinking was more that your cost calculus is firmly predicated on the block being happy through all of this. As long as you have overboost protections etc in place, there's no reason it shouldn't be happy there.

I did look up track speed's site right now and they rate the 6258 for 150hp-325hp. So it seems that it would be at home in your application with 200-230 on the stock block depending on the health. Any compression numbers by any chance?

Re: VVT, it's going to take a while especially where you are from what I've seen of CA. A friend recently bought a VVT engine (with manifold etc), a clutch, and a 6 speed trans for less than a grand. The seller was sick of having all the stuff sitting around. The car wasn't selling (it was an NB2 with 150k miles or so) and my friend drove the 12 hour roundtrip that weekend since he had a blown engine. I don't think that would happen as often in CA haha. That said, maybe parting out a car would be the best way to do it or buying one online and having it shipped over to you on a pallet.

Also, if you wanted the best mix of everything and you were building the block, wouldn't you want the vvt head, and an NB1 bottom end and intake manifold (or squaretop)?
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Old 01-22-2017, 04:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
Oh, I'm fully aware of how nicely the 6258 spools. My thinking was more that your cost calculus is firmly predicated on the block being happy through all of this. As long as you have overboost protections etc in place, there's no reason it shouldn't be happy there.

I did look up track speed's site right now and they rate the 6258 for 150hp-325hp. So it seems that it would be at home in your application with 200-230 on the stock block depending on the health. Any compression numbers by any chance?

Re: VVT, it's going to take a while especially where you are from what I've seen of CA. A friend recently bought a VVT engine (with manifold etc), a clutch, and a 6 speed trans for less than a grand. The seller was sick of having all the stuff sitting around. The car wasn't selling (it was an NB2 with 150k miles or so) and my friend drove the 12 hour roundtrip that weekend since he had a blown engine. I don't think that would happen as often in CA haha. That said, maybe parting out a car would be the best way to do it or buying one online and having it shipped over to you on a pallet.

Also, if you wanted the best mix of everything and you were building the block, wouldn't you want the vvt head, and an NB1 bottom end and intake manifold (or squaretop)?
That's what I was thinking, I think way back when the TSE kit was release, they ran 5psi on the stock VVT and onoly made like 170whp or something, stock exhuast though. I don't have any compression numbers, but they likely wouldn't change my plans.

I've seen 6spd in the $400-600 range around me. But one local guy swore his VVT engine was worth $1200 (just the engine). I may or may not go the baller route and try to build the best combination of parts, or just keep it simple. I have a MS3 already running and road tuned, so the VVT control isn't an issue. But finding one and everything might be too much of a ball ache, for something I may or may not appreciate fully.
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Old 01-22-2017, 04:29 PM   #13
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That's what I was thinking, I think way back when the TSE kit was release, they ran 5psi on the stock VVT and onoly made like 170whp or something, stock exhuast though. I don't have any compression numbers, but they likely wouldn't change my plans.

I've seen 6spd in the $400-600 range around me. But one local guy swore his VVT engine was worth $1200 (just the engine). I may or may not go the baller route and try to build the best combination of parts, or just keep it simple. I have a MS3 already running and road tuned, so the VVT control isn't an issue. But finding one and everything might be too much of a ball ache, for something I may or may not appreciate fully.
You can always keep your stock engine and wire in the vvt head if you find one for cheap enough, no? Or just get a 99/00 engine and do the same, while having the benefit of the better intake manifold. The NB1 head is still worth more than the NA8 head, so it might be an economically decision in the longer term since that engine doesn't stop you from doing anything. There are deals out there. It just takes some work and luck to find them. Are you on any local facebook groups etc for parts? Might be a reasonable place to start.
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Old 01-22-2017, 04:56 PM   #14
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You can always keep your stock engine and wire in the vvt head if you find one for cheap enough, no? Or just get a 99/00 engine and do the same, while having the benefit of the better intake manifold. The NB1 head is still worth more than the NA8 head, so it might be an economically decision in the longer term since that engine doesn't stop you from doing anything. There are deals out there. It just takes some work and luck to find them. Are you on any local facebook groups etc for parts? Might be a reasonable place to start.
I don't use facebook, but a lot of people find great deals through those sources.. I thought I couldn't do a VVT head on a 94 block? Or am I crazy? I would probably just do that if I could, with a squaretop or something custom.
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Old 01-22-2017, 05:49 PM   #15
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The Driver on miata.net is running an NB1 head on a NA8 block (https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=622584), so the NB2 head should work as well since they're compatible.

I'm going to defer to savington re wiring and compatibility since I know nothing about that. This should help you get started though: https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...athread-80469/

I can't comment on fuel rail/coil compatibility since I just don't know. I think a few others (18psi et al) might be able to comment on whether this is something worth doing or if it's stupid and you should just get a full engine to start with. Compression on the NA8 is even lower than on the NB1.
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Old 01-22-2017, 07:19 PM   #16
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1k for any miata 1.8 seems about right. If you can find a deal on a VVT heat you can always use a Kia block for the bottom end.
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Old 01-22-2017, 07:54 PM   #17
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1k for any miata 1.8 seems about right. If you can find a deal on a VVT heat you can always use a Kia block for the bottom end.
Just the engine alone? If so, I guess that just puts things in perspective for me.
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Old 01-22-2017, 10:56 PM   #18
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That SR5 mango is sweet, I used to roll a 72, 2 door wagon. I miss that thing.
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Old 01-22-2017, 11:06 PM   #19
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What's your total?
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Old 01-22-2017, 11:26 PM   #20
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What's your total?
Total of?
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