Faelflora breaks his promise, time to part out car. GIT THE SAWZALL!
08-14-2012, 03:44 PM
#3341
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Hello bitches. Let's start a new thread to discuss my dyno session.
https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...no-fail-67811/
https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...no-fail-67811/
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08-14-2012, 09:52 PM
#3345
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And in case you're too lazy to click the link here are results:
And here is the full report.
Details:
All in all I am very disappointed. While the session sucked because of dyno operation mix up and being cut short due to fueling, I do not think I will get close to my goals of 600+hp without some major overhaul.
Let's do a virtual dyno, pen and paper:
If you look at my logs, you will see that I am at IDC of 75% at 36psi. Note that Hydra reads IDC as 20% HIGH. So actual IDC is really around 55%. You shouldn't go over 80% real IDCs. Intake temps are fine and dandy with only 10-20* over ambient.
I am running ID1000s with two massive 044 pumps with dual fuel lines on a dual feed rail. The regulator is set at 75psi.
So. My fuel system is theoretically capable of around 650hp crank. Meth and meth map timing adds about 30-60hp. Anyways, let's go with 650hp.
If I am running 75% of my fueling max, that means I am probably running 487hp crank. Subtract 30hp for drivetrain and you get 457hp to the wheels. Subtract 20% for Ed's dyno cruelty, and you end up with 365hp. So the results are probably about accurate.
Right about where I'd expect to be on a 36psi pull on his dyno.
OK. So that is THIRTY SIX PEE ESSS EYE equalling 350-450hp depending on your math/dyno etc.
So now. Let's say I want to max out my injectors and run ALLOFIT. My turbo can flow air for 800hp so trust me, it can keep making more power with more boost. So to max out my injectors, I have to run 25% MORE BOOST.
That means I need to run 45psi to max out my setup.
Other than my shiit breaking, that really makes me sad about having built this miata motor.
Big props to Ed for building a motor that has lasted 10K miles of absolute cruelty. I talked to him about it more and he actually used slightly looser than stock clearances. Anyways, the motor is fine and happy enough.
But 45psi to see 600-650hp crank just sucks. Remember, PSI is an indicator of restriction. And my shiz just doesn't flow and neither does yours. I have PNP head, biggie valves, VVT. Gutted manifold seems to be doing OK since power obviously doesn't take a dip. But the overall setup needs to flow much better and be much more efficient. For realistic over 500hp I think I need bigger IC piping, big plenum manifold, cams. Sigh.
The consequences of running shizloads of boost are blowing head gaskets. Even more crankcase vent needed. Pre-detonation. $$$$$
In the meantime my 330hp to the wheel IS-F will work fine everyday for 100K miles while my turbo miata breaks all the time.
I left the session very disappointed.
a) because my car needs to be fixed again
b) wrong wrong wrong motor for 600hp
c) if i want 600hp it is gonna cost me about $1500 more because really I don't want to run 44psi and have to pull my motor cus I have a blown head gasket.
What now.
And here is the full report.
Details:
- 93 Maryland Pump. Exxon
- 100% M1 VP Fuel Meth
- 90* ambient, 80% or so humidity
- Pulls were done in 4th gear.
- Did about 10 pulls, most all were fail.
- Highest boost pulls were 36psi but Ed had the ratio wrong and it read like 200hp or something stupid.
- I am not sure that Ed got the ratio correct for the dyno for the whole session.
- Boost onset is way messed up. He was not putting any load on the rollers. He was in the process of increasing it and then things started to go lean. I tried a few pulls at low boost 15psi (which were the weak sounding vids lenny posted), and they were fine. We then tried high boost again and fail.
All in all I am very disappointed. While the session sucked because of dyno operation mix up and being cut short due to fueling, I do not think I will get close to my goals of 600+hp without some major overhaul.
Let's do a virtual dyno, pen and paper:
If you look at my logs, you will see that I am at IDC of 75% at 36psi. Note that Hydra reads IDC as 20% HIGH. So actual IDC is really around 55%. You shouldn't go over 80% real IDCs. Intake temps are fine and dandy with only 10-20* over ambient.
I am running ID1000s with two massive 044 pumps with dual fuel lines on a dual feed rail. The regulator is set at 75psi.
So. My fuel system is theoretically capable of around 650hp crank. Meth and meth map timing adds about 30-60hp. Anyways, let's go with 650hp.
If I am running 75% of my fueling max, that means I am probably running 487hp crank. Subtract 30hp for drivetrain and you get 457hp to the wheels. Subtract 20% for Ed's dyno cruelty, and you end up with 365hp. So the results are probably about accurate.
Right about where I'd expect to be on a 36psi pull on his dyno.
OK. So that is THIRTY SIX PEE ESSS EYE equalling 350-450hp depending on your math/dyno etc.
So now. Let's say I want to max out my injectors and run ALLOFIT. My turbo can flow air for 800hp so trust me, it can keep making more power with more boost. So to max out my injectors, I have to run 25% MORE BOOST.
That means I need to run 45psi to max out my setup.
Other than my shiit breaking, that really makes me sad about having built this miata motor.
Big props to Ed for building a motor that has lasted 10K miles of absolute cruelty. I talked to him about it more and he actually used slightly looser than stock clearances. Anyways, the motor is fine and happy enough.
But 45psi to see 600-650hp crank just sucks. Remember, PSI is an indicator of restriction. And my shiz just doesn't flow and neither does yours. I have PNP head, biggie valves, VVT. Gutted manifold seems to be doing OK since power obviously doesn't take a dip. But the overall setup needs to flow much better and be much more efficient. For realistic over 500hp I think I need bigger IC piping, big plenum manifold, cams. Sigh.
The consequences of running shizloads of boost are blowing head gaskets. Even more crankcase vent needed. Pre-detonation. $$$$$
In the meantime my 330hp to the wheel IS-F will work fine everyday for 100K miles while my turbo miata breaks all the time.
I left the session very disappointed.
a) because my car needs to be fixed again
b) wrong wrong wrong motor for 600hp
c) if i want 600hp it is gonna cost me about $1500 more because really I don't want to run 44psi and have to pull my motor cus I have a blown head gasket.
What now.
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08-14-2012, 10:09 PM
#3346
So now you understand why we're all "MEDIOCRE"??!!!!
Now you understand why we don't all go for 1000whp on a BP???!!
Maybe now you'll talk less sh*t to people wanting to run 300whp???!!
You know what though, I really appreciate your efforts and your thread is sometimes entertaining.
So I give you props for that.
I also give you props for FINALLY posting up a plot. Fail or not, you did what we were asking of you and for that I thank you.
PS: I think something is extremely wrong still though. I know many people that made over 400 on a turbo half the size and almost half the boost.
So what now? Will you continue on or just start over with different motor or car altogether? Just wondering.
Now you understand why we don't all go for 1000whp on a BP???!!
Maybe now you'll talk less sh*t to people wanting to run 300whp???!!
You know what though, I really appreciate your efforts and your thread is sometimes entertaining.
So I give you props for that.
I also give you props for FINALLY posting up a plot. Fail or not, you did what we were asking of you and for that I thank you.
PS: I think something is extremely wrong still though. I know many people that made over 400 on a turbo half the size and almost half the boost.
So what now? Will you continue on or just start over with different motor or car altogether? Just wondering.
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08-14-2012, 11:09 PM
#3349
So now you understand why we're all "MEDIOCRE"??!!!!
Now you understand why we don't all go for 1000whp on a BP???!!
Maybe now you'll talk less sh*t to people wanting to run 300whp???!!
You know what though, I really appreciate your efforts and your thread is sometimes entertaining.
So I give you props for that.
I also give you props for FINALLY posting up a plot. Fail or not, you did what we were asking of you and for that I thank you.
PS: I think something is extremely wrong still though. I know many people that made over 400 on a turbo half the size and almost half the boost.
So what now? Will you continue on or just start over with different motor or car altogether? Just wondering.
Now you understand why we don't all go for 1000whp on a BP???!!
Maybe now you'll talk less sh*t to people wanting to run 300whp???!!
You know what though, I really appreciate your efforts and your thread is sometimes entertaining.
So I give you props for that.
I also give you props for FINALLY posting up a plot. Fail or not, you did what we were asking of you and for that I thank you.
PS: I think something is extremely wrong still though. I know many people that made over 400 on a turbo half the size and almost half the boost.
So what now? Will you continue on or just start over with different motor or car altogether? Just wondering.
^^^ This.
While you made some minor excuses, you still man'd up. We've all had fail in our car lives... hell, my trip to the hardware store killed my AC compressor as the new awr swaybar brackets put the sway bar in contact with the AC pulley just enough to make a slight whine and enough heat to lock up the bearing.... Its why we have Daily drivers.
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08-14-2012, 11:11 PM
#3350
Turbo LS1 Miata Dyno Pull COMP OIL LESS TURBO REAR VIEW of - YouTube
Mate that borg to an LSx or F20c and win at life
Mate that borg to an LSx or F20c and win at life
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08-14-2012, 11:33 PM
#3351
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So now you understand why we're all "MEDIOCRE"??!!!!
Now you understand why we don't all go for 1000whp on a BP???!!
Maybe now you'll talk less sh*t to people wanting to run 300whp???!!
You know what though, I really appreciate your efforts and your thread is sometimes entertaining.
So I give you props for that.
I also give you props for FINALLY posting up a plot. Fail or not, you did what we were asking of you and for that I thank you.
PS: I think something is extremely wrong still though. I know many people that made over 400 on a turbo half the size and almost half the boost.
So what now? Will you continue on or just start over with different motor or car altogether? Just wondering.
Now you understand why we don't all go for 1000whp on a BP???!!
Maybe now you'll talk less sh*t to people wanting to run 300whp???!!
You know what though, I really appreciate your efforts and your thread is sometimes entertaining.
So I give you props for that.
I also give you props for FINALLY posting up a plot. Fail or not, you did what we were asking of you and for that I thank you.
PS: I think something is extremely wrong still though. I know many people that made over 400 on a turbo half the size and almost half the boost.
So what now? Will you continue on or just start over with different motor or car altogether? Just wondering.
^^^ This.
While you made some minor excuses, you still man'd up. We've all had fail in our car lives... hell, my trip to the hardware store killed my AC compressor as the new awr swaybar brackets put the sway bar in contact with the AC pulley just enough to make a slight whine and enough heat to lock up the bearing.... Its why we have Daily drivers.
While you made some minor excuses, you still man'd up. We've all had fail in our car lives... hell, my trip to the hardware store killed my AC compressor as the new awr swaybar brackets put the sway bar in contact with the AC pulley just enough to make a slight whine and enough heat to lock up the bearing.... Its why we have Daily drivers.
Read my math again. I think the numbers are accurate.
I already have the motor and mani and downpipe and exhaust. So I think I will keep it. $10,000 in that I may as well use. The GT30 was pretty fun.
I am not done with this turbo yet. But I may eventually go S256...
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08-15-2012, 12:12 AM
#3353
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OK let me spell it out. Per my math
To make 550whp (on a regular dyno) on this setup, I will probably have to run 43psi. Ugh.
Originally I was hoping that 40psi would get me to like, 650hp. No way. Unless I had cams, intake, and a fuel that got me to MBT.
And that will still be slower than many cars on the road.
To make 550whp (on a regular dyno) on this setup, I will probably have to run 43psi. Ugh.
Originally I was hoping that 40psi would get me to like, 650hp. No way. Unless I had cams, intake, and a fuel that got me to MBT.
And that will still be slower than many cars on the road.
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08-15-2012, 02:23 AM
#3354
Fae, there will always be someone faster. You just need to be happy with what you have. Trying to be the fastest guy on the planet is going to cost you every penny you ever make.
Can you make the numbers you want with a miata mill??? Maybe. Will it be cost effective? Never. I think I have about 17 in my car for the conversion and current setup, and you know my power numbers. Im tuned conservative and will probably never have to rebuild unless I do something stupid like turn up the boost; this wont happen as long as I am racing the fp car.
Maybe it is time for you to step back and do some soul searching. If huge power numbers are what you want, you will get better and more reliable results with a engine swap. I bet you would be much happier with an ls v8 set up.
Can you make the numbers you want with a miata mill??? Maybe. Will it be cost effective? Never. I think I have about 17 in my car for the conversion and current setup, and you know my power numbers. Im tuned conservative and will probably never have to rebuild unless I do something stupid like turn up the boost; this wont happen as long as I am racing the fp car.
Maybe it is time for you to step back and do some soul searching. If huge power numbers are what you want, you will get better and more reliable results with a engine swap. I bet you would be much happier with an ls v8 set up.
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08-15-2012, 04:34 AM
#3356
You should have ran it in 2nd gear, thats your problem.
Fae this makes no sense man, miatas are pushing 500 horses at 25 or something psi. Obviously something is off. Clutch slipping? Slipped timing belt?
Next time try roller dyno?
Fae this makes no sense man, miatas are pushing 500 horses at 25 or something psi. Obviously something is off. Clutch slipping? Slipped timing belt?
Next time try roller dyno?
Last edited by triple88a; 08-15-2012 at 05:29 AM.
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08-15-2012, 07:07 AM
#3359
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when you guys say that he is spooling later than on the street that might be the same problem as they had with a dyno here in Iceland. The rollers were not giving enough resistance to put enough load on the motor to get the turbo to boost. That has no effect on the measurements of NA and supercharged cars, but on turbo cars it can lead to the car not being able to boost.
I would advise faeflora to dyno again at another place to make sure the dyno is not the problem. doesn't hurt to double check.
I would advise faeflora to dyno again at another place to make sure the dyno is not the problem. doesn't hurt to double check.
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