Fireindc

iTrader: (13)

Yip yip, will do.

viperormiata

iTrader: (24)

**** you and your perfect seats

Fireindc

iTrader: (13)

If it makes you feel any better, they are far from perfect.. maybe perfect from far. They've been re-upholstered, and although they do look nice I'd prefer the OEM upholstery. The harness holes were also added after the fact, and I'd honestly rather not have them at all. BUT... for the price I paid I am sure NOT complaining. $350 for the pair.

They even have the little lumbar support pump on the side. They are super comfy feeling and fit me awesomely. Can't wait to get em' in. woo.

Fireindc

iTrader: (13)

Gays, I'm about to do a mild bulid on this 1.8 I picked up and wanted to see if you guys had any advice.

I have a 94 BP with ~100k on it. Motor has good compression and doesn't knock. Basically the build will be as follows.

OEM rebuild kit (OEM mls HG, OEM main/rod bearings, etc)

Ebay forged rods. Will remove material to match weights on them as best I can.

OEM pistons, the thought here is I can get away with no machine work. Of course I'll re-ring it with chromoly rings. Fresh hone on the cylinders and whatnot.

It's got a OEM oil pump with less than 10k miles on it, so I'll be using that.


This is the first engine build of any kind I've ever attempted. My hopes is with this plan I can get away with no machine work (except a hone in my garage) and have an engine that will hold up to 300whp or so.

What do you think? The car will be run on e85 as well, thus is why I'm leaning towards stock pistons. I figure I can build this one cheaply and it will be a learning experience, then down the road I can build a massive power block and be confident in building it.

Efini~FC3S

iTrader: (4)

See posts #256 and #258.

I think it's a good plan, but I'm biased because it's what I'm planning on doing.

On E85 300whp should be reliable on that build.

Fireindc

iTrader: (13)

Indeed, thanks. I was more concerned about anything I may be leaving out, or if anyone has any basic build tips for someone doing this for the first time.

For instance, do i need to check all bearings clearances and whatnot? or should I be able to slap it back together?

Should I use ARP headstuds, or are OEM sufficient?

I know I have a lot of research to do yet, just trying to gather what I can.

thenuge26

iTrader: (2)

With E85, get some 10:1 OE pistons and get your head (or a spare) decked for more compression.

From what I read, ARP head studs are a no-brainer cost/benefit wise over OEM studs.

FRT_Fun

iTrader: (19)

At the very least I'd ensure everything on the engine is within spec.

I'm assuming you plan to upgrade your injectors for e85?

Fireindc

iTrader: (13)

Not a bad idea, but from what I've read changing pistons = machine work? If I'm doing that I may as well go full forged (which I may still..).

Very good point, i'll check all the bearing clearances and whatnot on reassembly. Really starting to thing about going with forged pistons + machine work and going fully forged now though.

Sticking with my dw800's for now. I'll see what kind of power I can put down with these on e85, but I don't see why they wouldn't get at least close to 300whp.

Efini~FC3S

iTrader: (4)

Yea, I have the same questions.

What little research I've done as come up with the following:

If putting in new bearings, then yes you should (i.e. must) check clearances. I would just follow the FSM for those. You could, hypothetically, disassemble the engine, install forged rods, and re-assemble with the used bearings but it seems kind of silly if they have 100k+ miles on them already.

Also, if you pull the pistons and rings out it's unlikely you could put them back in and get a decent seal. Hence the need for new rings, even if re-using the pistons. A quick ball-hone with a drill and attachment should be sufficient for prepping the cylinders. One guy I spoke with said he could get my block re-honed for the stock bore for like $45, so you might want to investigate that. If a full block tank cleaning and stock bore honing is only like $60 or $70 it might be well worth it, especially if you have to pay $25-30 for the ball-honing tool anyway.

Forged pistons and machine work really does significantly add cost. But doing two engines in a short time period is also kind of silly. So, if you're plan is to go fully forged in the next 2 years, then you may be better off going full build now.

I have an EFR6258 so I feel like I need to do at least forged rods right away. I finally found a cheap 1.8 engine, so my plan is to do the bare bones forged rod build initially. I will pull the 1.8 out of my car and do a longer term full build on it.

My plan is very similar to your original plan. Re-use stock pistons, new rings, DIY ball honing, new gaskets/bearings, cheap ebay forged rods, ARP head studs, new OEM headgasket. I will be doing it all by myself, in my garage with what tools I have, and it will basically be my first build (88cc kit in my XR50 pit bike not counted...). I'm hoping to get started on my build sooner than later and will post progress also. Maybe we can learn together...

18psi

iTrader: (76)

haha looks like I started a trend with my "semi-build" a few years ago.

but yeah, for our modest power levels, and if using e85, its a pretty sweet route to take.

rings - mandatory
bearings - depends
rods - mandatory
and of course belts, gaskets, etc.

on my current build I also lapped valves, decked and cleaned head, new stem seals, etc. its all within 100-200 bucks and completely worth it IMO

Efini~FC3S

iTrader: (4)

18 - did you lap the valves yourself?

I suppose headwork will depend mainly on the condition of your current head. Obviously if it leaks like a sieve, probably should spend some money on it.

What do you mean by "depends" on the bearings? Examine and if they look good keep them?

If there were a way to just replace rods, and do nothing else that would be the route I would go with my "interim" motor. When I found out I would need to re-ring I was annoyed...

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

If you have to re-ring it, why wouldn't you just throw some forged slugs in there anyways?

Fireindc

iTrader: (13)

Leaning towards going forged now, the problem becomes where do you stop though?

How about..

Forged pistons/rods, punch the bores out for the pistons.
Fresh rings. ARP studs. OEM bearings/HG/rebuild kit/oil pump/etc.

Keep it on a budget, but not quite as low budget. Should be VERY 300whp capable, toss in an oil pump later if I'm feeling ballsy and shoot for the sky?

What do you guys think about oem bearings vs ACL race bearings/etc ? I'd like OEM longevity if possible with 300whp capability.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

yep.
and I think anyone that has an opportunity to do it should. why wouldn't you address the two things that directly affect compression and engine health?

honing/re-ringing is super easy and cheap too and I've no idea why people make a big deal about it. it would be beyond moronic to not do this 100 dollar 1 hour task and have nice fresh compression "while you're in there" vs stuffing them back in as is.

yes. done this before on some mint motors. they were literally showroom condition. I decided to keep em in there. those motors still run like champs.

because those of us running exclusively on e85 will easily get to 300 even 350 on teh stock slugs and enjoy a quiet oem-like operating motor and no oil consumption and no need to rebuild in 50k miles or whatever it is. also we're talking nearly 800 dollar difference.
Also there was much talk of most aftermarket slugs for the vvt motors making the engine semi-interference which is gay to say the least.

Fireindc

iTrader: (13)

Yeah.. man I keep going back and forth. I really think for my goals stock pistons are the ticket. Goals:

e85 80% of the time unless I go on a long trip or something and it's not as avilable. Will turn down the boost if on 91/93. 300whp on the street, max. 200-240whp on the track (maybe 2 track days a year?). I don't want to exceed the power that the stock trans can take anyways, well at least the 6 speed. I have 2 spare 5 speeds atm, so I can blow those up and that's fine. Cheap. As cheap as possible. Stock reliability, would like to be able to drive cross country if desired. I want to not burn oil anymore. That is the main reason for this build actually, every motor I've ever had burns oil.. lol.

Just writing this out has helped me make up my mind. Budget build it is with no regrets. I can go fully built years in the future if i so decide.

redturbomiata

iTrader: (5)

I thought the limit on stock pistons was similar to the rods or is that one of many benefits of exclusively running e85. Either way its a good thing to know.

Erat

iTrader: (5)

I don't like this word you use. Budget.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

The "limit" on both is just a number we all came up with. That said, most experience rods bending past 250wtq, some sooner some later depending on setup and tuning. Pistons on the other hand, haven't been known to simply fall appart or fail with big power like rods do. They usually die with bad tuning or bad fuel, or both. So we used to throw the 300whp number around for the piston limit, but again that's just a number.
E85 basically takes away the disadvantages of fuel and bad tuning - it burns cooler and the chances of det are very low unless you're on a mission to break stuff.
So then you're left with them failing from sheer pressure. And they can take a LOT of pressure. So yeah.......I'm guessing 350-400 is not out of the question.

thenuge26

iTrader: (2)

I assume we don't see stock pistons fail often because they would only have to take ~260wtq safely, since the majority of people with stock pistons also have stock rods.

So the same det that kills stock pistons will kill the stock rods before then. And most people who upgrade rods do the pistons also.

Hence the numbers aren't as well defined.