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I don't know where exactly to start this, but I can say this thread is heavily influenced by @flier129's thread,https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...st5-tt5-83284/. It was a solid read and very informative, which is what I'm hoping to achieve with my thread.
My name is Phil, located in Troy NY and I have owned my 99 NB for around 3 months now.
I was originally looking for a NA in hopes of avoiding NYS emissions laws, but I found an NB that was perfect for my uses. I spent the first 3 months barely driving the Miata at all because it would not pass NYS OBDII testing. None of the monitors were ready. This was due to the fact that the previous owner swapped in a Cali motor into a previous federal car w/ a federal ECU. I played musical chairs with the O2 sensors for a bit and got the configuration that I thought would work, but instead of driving around and hoping the magic driving cycle would fix the issue I signed up for my first NASA NE track day at Palmer Motorsports Park in MA. After driving on track all day I finally got a CEL, replaced an O2 sensor and now my car has an inspection sticker.
This brings my to the present. I am 3 weeks at from my 2nd track event at Watkins Glen. I am currently in HPDE1 and have requested the same instructor as Palmer. I signed up for 2 days this time, so I'm hoping to spend the first day getting used to the track and the 2nd day refining my skills.
My goals for racing:
- I'd eventually like to work through HPDE. I'm not in a rush. I plan to do 4-5 events or 10 days next year.
- The Ultimate goal would be to race W2W or in a TT setting. I'm also interested in Hill climb. AN endurance race would be fun and now NASA offers a race w/o the need for a comp license.
- Just reading through multiple threads, reviews and blogs I know that I have lots to learn about racing and just tech in general. There are so many things I don't know about tire pressures, brake pads, tire compositions...etc
My goals for my Miata:
- I don't have any plans to make huge power. Previously I owned a 350z and thought I was a "great driver." The miata quickly showed me a steep learning curve.
- Currently my main concerns are finding brakes and tires that work best for me. I don't see the point in throwing money into suspension until I have proper control of the car as is.
- Keep the car as reliable as possible. The ideal pre track day routine would be checking fluids, air and tread/pad life.
That's about all I can think of to start with. I'm hoping to keep this going, even if it just acts as a journal to myself. Thanks for reading.
Current garage configuration. 68 Beetle is going up for sale soon Palmer prep Some local shop cars. Bob Karl team Some local shop cars. Bob Karl team
Here are 2 videos of my last session at Palmer motorsports park. People started to leave because of weather threats, so I had an open track with a few cars from others groups. I only signed up for a single day and as fun as it as I clearly need more than 4 sessions to get used to a track. This event was a lot of firsts for me: First HPDE event, first time driving the miata on track, first time driving on R compounds(NT01s came on the car when I bought it) and first time using race pads (DTC60/30).
Watching the videos I can see a have a lot to work on. The first few sessions I was not at all confident, but I had a really great instructor and being a passenger in his S2k really helped. When I had my 350z and went to open track events they were mainly flat and not technical, unlike Palmer which has so many elevation changes, double apexes and blind turns.
I think after ever track event i'll do a small write up of the equipment I used rather than my driving, because that can be seen in the videos.
Palmer Motorsports park notes:
-97*F
-Max coolant temp: 206F
-Max Inlet temp: 103F
-6x 20 minuet sessions
-HPDE 1 run group
- FM alignment spec
Nitto NT01 205 50 15:
32-35 psi after each run. These tires were amazing. This was my first time driving on something that was track oriented at my first time with a R compound. The grip was fantastic during all parts of the track. I obviously wasn't driving them to their limits, but they instilled confidence in me. I continue to read how they are a great tire and don't heat cycle out until they hit their cords. I can also attest to how consistent they were. They never felt greasy, or felt like they were losing traction.
DTC 60/30(new fronts/used rears):
I don't know if I can properly articulate with my limited experience how these pads worked. They stopped me and they did so with ease. Prior to the track day I installed FM SS brake line, filled them with synthetic Castrol DOT4 fluid and installed new centric blank rotors. I experienced no brake failure or fade. They weren't as loud as I expected them to be, but there was a fair amount of dusting. I don't see any reason to discontinue the use of this setup, at least at my current level. Again performance was stable, consistent and predictable. Palmer Motorsports Park. Palmer, MA:
» 2.3 miles x 40’ wide circuit
» +190’ of vertical elevation
» 14-turns, bidirectional
» Latex polymer asphalt
Palmer was an amazing facility. The only other tracks I've been to, not raced on, are CoTA and VIR. Obviously Palmer isn't anywhere near the same league as those to tracks, but it was a great experience. The amenities include bathrooms w/ showers, garages and covered paddock area. There are noise restrictions. There are large areas to park in that are loose gravel. Plenty of places to spectate. There was fuel on hand during my visit. I will definitely sign up again for any event at Palmer.
Side note: What is everyone using for their audio/visual setup? I obviously need to mount my Hero 6 black a little higher. Also edit so I can stitch the 2 videos together.
Looks like a good start! I, too, was influenced by flier129 (among others). It seems like you already have a good solid base to work with, and your plan of attack so far seems pretty similar to mine. I've been taking the HPDE ladder slowly so I can enjoy every minute on track of learning and trying to get faster. A lot of people have made some good suggestions in my thread if you're interested in seeing their advice as well: https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...-thread-99406/
Good luck with the progression! I'm looking forward to following along.
Oh dang, never thought my ramblings would ever influence anybody. But I'm certainly glad it has! Seems like a never ending journey, but it's always a blast.
Off to a good start! I'll read this in more detail later. Heading back from NASA Nationals at Mid-Ohio(I didn't race though).
Spent today prepping for Watkins Glen this weekend. Did a nut and bolt check and everything appears tight. DTC60/30s have plenty of meat on them and I have spares going with me anyway. NT01s SHOULD make it through the weekend, but we'll see. I ordered a set of RT615K+ just in case. I wasn't going to bleed the brakes, but since I have the car up on stands I might as well.
Installed an OEM air dam and under tray, something I didn't have on the car last track event.
While installing the under tray I noticed a very small amount coolant on the ground, even though I haven't started the car in awhile. Checked all the hoses and found nothing to be out of the ordinary. Then I found that the knock sensor looks like its leaking?
I'll keep digging around, but I dont see why/how that could be leaking. I've read several threads that say the sensor itself can secrete a goo? but I think the leak was more than "goo"
I went down this same rabbit hole a few years ago. Just a few suggestions to guide you on your journey:
- when you're a beginner, fast tires are not going to make you a fast driver. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but the whole key to speed is learning to drive at the limit of traction. With regular summer tires that limit can be reached at more reasonable speeds. With sticky tires, you really need experience and skill to get near the traction limit without plunging over the edge of said limit.
- It's good to be clear on your goals with respect to HPDE vs. racing. If your goal is really to race, then plan your car/build with that in mind from the beginning. A lot of the cool/fast upgrades you read about here will take you right out of the common race classes. Honestly, if you really plan to race, the best plan would be to buy an already built race car from the start; it will save you a lot of time and effort in the end. SM is a really good class because there are always going to be a lot of people to race against.
- It's all about seat time, and instruction helps a lot. I've done 30-35 track days at this point, and I'm nowhere close to being ready to race W2W. Racing is not my goal, but if it was I would build my entire plan around maximizing time on the track and not spend a single penny on the car that wasn't essential.
- Safety is speed. Stock seats and seatbelts are ok for your first few track days, but you're going to improve a lot faster if you have a proper safety setup. Cage, race seat, harness, HANS, fire suit.. they all go together, there's really no way to piecemeal your way in. They are expensive but worth it. I would prioritize this over go-fast parts, ultimately your lap times will drop faster with better driving than they do with tweaks to your car.
EVENT 2: Watkins Glen. Thunder at the Glen 05 Oct- 06 Oct 2019
Watkins Glen was this weekend and it was a blast. I went for two days and at the end of my first day my instructor made it known he wanted to recommend me for solo/HPDE2 if I stayed consistent the 2nd day. I was worried because when the second day arrive it rained, the track was slick, but I stayed consistent, safe, and exercised proper track etiquette and I was advanced to HPDE2.
There were a lot of firsts at WG for me.
I had an off at about 70 going into turn one. I went in a little too hot and went four off onto the rumbles, but got the car under control and safely stopped to reenter the track. Hot pitted after and everything was all good.
Saw my first track accident, I was behind a JCW mini race car and he locked up and went straight into the wall at the "Toe" T7. This brought on my first red flag and my first black flag. This was all on the first lap of my 4 session on day 2.
First time on track in the rain.
Track conditions:
-Outside temps: 55-63F
-Raining on and off
- 9x 20 min sessions
Car's Set up:
Stock engine
Stock suspension
Nitto NT01s 205/50/15
- The Nittos going into the weekend were are about 50%. I had brought a pair of Falken rt-615k+ as back up, but didn't end up using them. I said it in my prior post, but the Nittos performed amazingly, even towards the end of their life which I'm sure they have reached. The Nittos don't talk a whole lot, but they are very confidence inspiring and grip at all stages. I didn't notice any chunking even with riding the rumbles strips frequently. When they were cold they were still predictable, but took longer to heat up because the track also stayed fairly cold in the earlier sessions. I will be looking into getting a dedicated set of Nittos and wheels for the next season
DTC60(F)/DTC30(R)
- I am a fan of this set up and so is every SM car that was in attendance this weekend. WG is a on throttle track, but has some heavy braking zones, especially off the straights. As I was getting more comfortable shortening the brake zones the pads did their jobs, even though I could tell they were getting low, they still had lots of bite. After some daily driving and 2 weekends I think I will retire this set and swap in a new set. Hawk now has a HPDE contingency so I get 25% off for advancing out of HPDE 1.
- This is one of my last sessions from day 1. Day 2 was hectic because of there were black flags, delays, so I didn't make recording a priority. I fixed my camera position and messed with some setting and I think the video came out fairly well.
What I need to work on:
I'm starting to get more and more comfortable with the racing line and my car. I noticed throughout the day I was getting faster and faster and in a high gear on certain parts of the track. I need to get more comfortable at the speeds and carry of it into turns. All of day 1 I was going into the "esses" in third gear and by session 2 of day 2 i was in high 4th. This is also true for the bus stop, used to downshift into 3rd, but then I started working on staying in 4th.
I could work on looking ahead more. It's gotten better and I definitely am aware and correct it when my instructor brings it up, but I know I could be looking at least 50% farther ahead.
Future plans/modifications. This was my last even of the year:
I plan on buying a HANS device as soon as possible and well before I start up again in the Spring.
I have no plans of adding power
As stated I would like a dedicated set of track wheels/tires. I will most likely stay with 200utgq. I like the Nittos and I will be giving the RT615KT+ a chance.
I'd like to look into coolant mods: reroute, SM radiator. My temps on track ranged from 201-204 and this was with the addition of the OEM air dam. I'll also be switching from coolant to distilled water+wetter water.
More seat time is my main concern. Next year I'd love to do Lime rock, Watkins Glen, Pocono and VIR(bucket list)
Awesome update. I can't wait to make it up to Watkins Glen.
A few random thoughts:
- Definitely get a HANS device as soon as you can afford it, especially now that you've witnessed an accident and went off yourself. I personally use the NecksGen and I love it.
- Awesome to see you focusing on driving and not on power. I am finishing my second full season (just got into HPDE 3) and still completely satisfied with stock power. It's fun getting faster without having changed the power delivery.
- Coolant re-route and $200 CSF radiator with proper 195* thermostat was all it took to get my consistently running at 190-195* no matter the ambient temp, so it sounds like you'll be good with that, though 205 is not bad by any means. Stock radiator is definitely a liability though due to the brittle end tanks.
- Post up when you come down to VIR! It's such a nice facility and an amazing track. I'd love to be able to say hey. I'll be hopefully making my way Northeast next year!
Awesome update. I can't wait to make it up to Watkins Glen.
A few random thoughts:
- Definitely get a HANS device as soon as you can afford it, especially now that you've witnessed an accident and went off yourself. I personally use the NecksGen and I love it.
- Awesome to see you focusing on driving and not on power. I am finishing my second full season (just got into HPDE 3) and still completely satisfied with stock power. It's fun getting faster without having changed the power delivery.
- Coolant re-route and $200 CSF radiator with proper 195* thermostat was all it took to get my consistently running at 190-195* no matter the ambient temp, so it sounds like you'll be good with that, though 205 is not bad by any means. Stock radiator is definitely a liability though due to the brittle end tanks.
- Post up when you come down to VIR! It's such a nice facility and an amazing track. I'd love to be able to say hey. I'll be hopefully making my way Northeast next year!
Yeah the crash was pretty eye opening. I went four off into turn 1, but there was ample run off. I tried on a bunch of instructor's devices, but no one had a necksgen.
I was pretty pumped when I got the recommendation for HPDE2. Watkins Glen was a great track and after the 2nd session on the first day I felt super comfortable there. Its a mainly on throttle track and some of the miata drivers think its boring, because it isnt super technical, but I enjoyed getting faster and faster as the weekend went on.
The reroute is pretty much the only modification I have planned for this down season. That and maybe the SM radiator due to its cooling and how lightweight it is. I'm removing a bunch of weight, but again, not really adding any power adders.
I hosted my best friend's bachelor party at VIR last year during hyperfest. It gave me the motivation to get back into a track car. VIR is definitely on the bucket list and I'm setting aside money for it, hopefully I can make a late summer/fall event next year. My goal for tracks I haven't been to is to grab an instructor maybe for the first day and then driving solo the next. Hopefully if all goes right in life I'll be moving to Charlottesville VA this spring, that way I'll be nice and close to summit point and close-ish to VIR.
The reroute doesn't really help with cooling. It helps cool the 3rd and 4th cylinders better than the stock setup, but the overall heat capacity of the car is the same. To improve cooling overall, you need a better radiator. Ducting and sealing open passages to direct air through the radiator also makes a huge difference.
I would do the radiator and reroute at the same time. The biggest PITA of the whole job is removing the undertray, draining the coolant and making sure that that it’s properly burped at the end. No reason to do it twice.
Over the break so far I have:
1) deleted the power steering and converted the rack to manual.
- 9lb weight savings
2) Replaced OEM steering wheel with a momo wheel w/ a NRG QD
-5 lb weight savings
3) Deleted AC compressor/ lines/bracket/filter box
-22lb weight savings
4) Perhaps most importantly I bought a HANS device. Gotta protect that neck!
My goal still remains the same for the car, to make the car is simple as possible and make the main thing I have to worry about be maintenance. If all I have to do is change fluids and brake pads before a track, that is my goal.
What Im trying to decide next is what I should do. My main though is that I should buy a set of 15x8 wheels and a dedicated set of tires. The upgrade from 15x7 to 15x8 will help with handling, less weight and allow me to drive to the more local track without having to put additional heat cycles on my track tires. Another idea I was kicking around was buying a set of coilovers. I still have stock power, but at some of the faster tracks, such as watkins glen, I feel like the coilovers would be a bigger help. Ultimately I'll end up doing both of these things, but I'm trying to decide which to do first.
New MoMo, 300mm
Depowered rack 9.2lbs Powersteering rack and all the associated stuff. 18.6 lbs its all out AC compressor and bracket 18lbs Under dash AC filter. Replaced with tube so I can retain defrost. 4 lbs
Coilovers is the next logical step. Do it once though and get some Xidas. They will net you time on any course.
I want the xidas. However, I look at that price and then I have a friend who drifts his Miata on Fortune autos and loves them. For the price of the Xidas I could have Fortunes, reroute, and a SM rad.
One thing I keep trying to remind myself is to have real expectations for the car. Will I ever make it a full track car? Will I ever want to leave HPDE, currently in HPDE2?
A proper suspension setup will make driving at or near the limit much much easier. You'll be a more consistent driver, which will lead to a easier learning curve. So another way to think of this, with this process reduced you'll drop lap-times more efficiently. Which means less track events to pay for to get your goals....whatever they may be.
Are you having heating problems with your relatively stock engine?
I've had some experience with "unfortunate autos", but I believe my example was an one-off
09-19-2019, 08:55 PM
[99 NB] HPDE adventures and hopefully beyond
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