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Alrighty. I think I have done my newb searching, and I think I want to build a MS instead of buying a PNP. I'm quite handy with schematics and soldering irons, so it shouldn't be much of a challenge. I *THINK* this is all the right stuff from DIYAutoTune for a 2003. Am I missing anything (other than the connector I need to source from Mouser)?
Are there any other sources I should be considering? Brain? The Rev? Other? As you may have noticed, I'm not above being a credit card mechanic and just bolting on a PNP solution...
Brain builds them with a little lead time and is great to deal with. TSE stocks revs ms3 basic.
Brain has also written a build guide for the ms3x. I believe it's on trubokitty. If you're building one I'd follow those instructions. It'll make it easy to troubleshoot etc.
Somehow, I thought the DIY 3 had knock detection built-in.
So, Rev's version and the DIY option are now $300 apart with those add-ons. That's not a lot of money, considering the importance of the ECU to the success of this endeavor. Now I'm wondering about the difference in quality between base maps. If Rev's base maps are better at things like idle quality, A/C control, etc., it seems like a no-brainer to go that way, rather than trying to save a few bucks by rolling my own.
Time to go back to the woodshed and do more newb searching.
I can give feedback on Rev's MS3 if that helps. I bought an MS3 basic (directly from Rev back in the day), and everything worked great out of the box. It started immediately, and have basically only had to touch fuel and ignition settings somewhat, but the base maps are really very good. Alternator, A/C control, etc I have never had to touch. 10/10 would buy again. Also the wideband CAN module is a nice addition.
Somehow, I thought the DIY 3 had knock detection built-in.
So, Rev's version and the DIY option are now $300 apart with those add-ons. That's not a lot of money, considering the importance of the ECU to the success of this endeavor. Now I'm wondering about the difference in quality between base maps. If Rev's base maps are better at things like idle quality, A/C control, etc., it seems like a no-brainer to go that way, rather than trying to save a few bucks by rolling my own.
Time to go back to the woodshed and do more newb searching.
In the meantime... Thoughts?
IMHO, depends on how much that 300 is worth to you. I'd personally buy from brain or TSE/Rev so I had someone to contact if things were acting funny. Miata turbo is really great for help, but there's something to be said for having support from the person that built your damn unit. Much easier than say... having to go back and retrace all your steps to try to figure out if/when/where you may have messed something up.
I'm guessing that folks are recommending the SD card option because it might not be permissible to use a laptop when on track, correct? Why not just use bluetooth and a tablet? I'm sure you can wire in a nexus tab or something to your car. You can just email the log to yourself when you get home or have wifi access (hotspot through phone etc). Or is the SD card that much more convenient in practice?
The SD card logging is nice because you can just leave it on all the time. Then if you're ever out there and the car does something weird, grab a laptop and pull down the log and you can review it.
The reason you want the RTC is because if you don't then it's really hard to figure out which file is which when you go back to pull it down.
Haha I get so confused when everyone is saying RTC... It's like, what did I do!?
My MS3X doesn't have the lights on it. Not sure how to use the SD card. I'll figure it out sometime. Being able to catch any potential weirdness is certainly a good idea.
Using the SD card is easy. Set the time/date on the RTC (under the can-bus/testmode menu), then go to data logging/sd card data logging. Pick the fields you want, set it to always log, and burn. After that you can either use the "browse sd card" entry to pull files off, or if you want to get a lot of data quickly you can just take the card out and plug it into your laptop.
Using the SD card is easy. Set the time/date on the RTC (under the can-bus/testmode menu), then go to data logging/sd card data logging. Pick the fields you want, set it to always log, and burn. After that you can either use the "browse sd card" entry to pull files off, or if you want to get a lot of data quickly you can just take the card out and plug it into your laptop.
--Ian
Hey Ian,
Can you mark the log if it's recording on the sd card? Or does that require adding an input button or such that gets that function?
Can you mark the log if it's recording on the sd card? Or does that require adding an input button or such that gets that function?
To mark the location in the log, you need to do something that the megasquirt is going to record in the log that you can easily find later. The best way of doing this is to have a dedicated marker button, send it to a megasquirt generic input, and write that value to the log, but you could also accomplish it by doing something "interesting" with the controls that will be logged along with the normal data. Does your car have AC? Maybe cycle the AC button on and off a few times (assuming you're logging that data). You could also pump the throttle up and down a few times, look for that in the TPS data (probably shouldn't do this in front of a police car).
I happen to have a set of yellow RX-8 injectors from helping friends work on their cars. Should I spend $90 to have these reconditioned for the Miata, or is there some compelling reason to skip saving money here? Keep in mind I am building a fast spooling, low boost setup at <=200WHP for reliability purposes.
Seems no one wants to gripe at me for asking newb questions about RX-8 injectors. Bummed.
In other news, I played hooky from work Monday and snuck in a track day. And, I encountered my first potential problems with the Miata. In the 90 miles trip to the track, and during the 4 sessions I drove, I lost half a quart of oil. The car has not lost any oil previously. I checked it over for leaks, when I got it home, and there are none. Tailpipe is lightly black with soot, so it is probably burning. Is this a normal amount of oil consumption for a stock Miata with 65K miles and 6 track days, or should I dig deeper?
Also, on the way home, I heard what sounded like a heat shield rattling, when I would get on the gas in 4th. I don't think the frequency increased with engine RPM, which is a good thing. Oddly, it seemed to be limited to 4th, as if there was some sort of harmonic frequency being generated that caused something to rattle. It didn't sound like detonation to me, but I'll at least be pulling the plugs to look for signs of detonation tonight.
Finally, I have the lifter tick that many people report after a day at the track. I seem to be under the impression that problem was reduced, due to redesigned HLAs in later model cars. I'll have to investigate that further.
I believe @aidandj was running RX8 Yellows on his turbo 1.6?
I've never run them, but 3rd hand knowledge and tribal wisdom says 200hp should be fine, with some headroom. Watch your injector DC and adjust as appropriate. As to if its worth $90 to have them cleaned and flow tested? That's up to you. I used WitchHunter Performance the last time I sent out injectors to be cleaned and flow tested. I like those guys because you can ask them to test at 4 bar (58psi, NB fuel pressure) as opposed to the standard 3 bar (43.5psi) that they usually test at. But they do get busy this time of year, so don't be in a rush. Hope that helps!
Also, you have an NB, correct? You don't have HLAs you have solid lifters. In general you shouldn't be getting any new mystery noises after a track day. I'd start digging.
I see different flow specs for those injectors all over the net. According to Five-O motorsports, yellow Densos flow 450cc at 43.5psi on average. I assume they are correct, since they flow test these things and include a report with each injector. If my calculations are right, I need ~410cc at 80% duty cycle to reach 250BHP, so they should be perfect. Unless I made a mistake somewhere, NB2 fuel pressure is 46psi. Is that incorrect?
I checked all the quick and obvious things, with regard to the oil consumption. The only potential cause I found, is a PCV valve that does not rattle as freely as it should. There was more oil in the hose than I'm used to seeing, so hopefully it is as simple as that. I'll pick up a new valve and grommet from Napa on the way home tonight. Otherwise, the 5W30 synthetic I am using may be too light for track work. I will change the oil and inspect it for any oddities, and probably send a sample to Blackstone for analysis out of an abundance of caution.
The spark plugs looked fine under 10x magnification. There were 2 oddities, when I peered into the plug holes. The front 2 pistons had a uniform coat of carbon on them. The rear 2 pistons had faint hexagonal outlines "etched" into the carbon, and those outlines looked old--as if more carbon has been laid down since they formed. No idea what that is about. The spark plugs are all uniform and look right to me. The coils tested good. Replacing the wires is worth considering, being that they are 13 years old. The IAT, MAF, and knock sensors all measure within range, in terms of resistance. There are no pending codes showing up in the ECU. Next things to check are fuel pressure, compression, and leak-down. Honestly, though, there is probably nothing to this, and there is probably something physically rattling.
I will take a video of the lifter tick tonight and post it for noob hand-holding commentary.
NB fuel pressure is 60 psi, but is not manifold referenced because the regulator is in the fuel tank. So as boost goes up, the effective flow rate of the injectors drops, meaning you need to be careful with rules of thumb about how much injector you need for how much power.
Before I converted to an aftermarket FPR, I saw my 550cc/minute RC injectors top out around 270 rwhp at 15 psi of boost. 450s are probably good for low-200s, depending on how much boost you're using to get that power.
04-25-2017, 04:26 PM
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