H3AVY to H3AVYER to...H3AV1EST P1G
11-04-2014, 07:43 PM
#1441
haha on the flip side though, it doesn't appear to actually be a VVT issue as much as a wiring issue of some sort.
Anyways, the car is as ready as it will be for boost. Drove it home after work after making adjustments and it drives pretty much as smooth and seamless as on the OEM ecu.
Couple small things:
-There is hot re-start leanness due to heatsoak. Not AIT heatsoak either, at least it doesnt appear that way. Still runs fine though, and as soon as you start moving it goes away. If you don't re-start the car, it won't even do it, I can idle in traffic for hours and it will be perfect.
-My AE/EAE or fuel overrun cut needs some tweaking. When I let off the throttle, it will pull fuel as its supposed to, go full lean, then a split second later dip all the way to like 10-12AFR, then a split second later go back to full lean. Almost like it changes its mind about cutting fuel, then changes its mind again. Can't really understand what it could be.
-Cold starts, and well , startup in general still needs work. Its not bad, but its nowhere near as good as OEM. At best I have to crank it 3-4 cranks for it to start, and sometimes it will do 4-5 and even shake a bit before firing. Not sure if lean or rich, still experimenting with that.
Anyways, the car is as ready as it will be for boost. Drove it home after work after making adjustments and it drives pretty much as smooth and seamless as on the OEM ecu.
Couple small things:
-There is hot re-start leanness due to heatsoak. Not AIT heatsoak either, at least it doesnt appear that way. Still runs fine though, and as soon as you start moving it goes away. If you don't re-start the car, it won't even do it, I can idle in traffic for hours and it will be perfect.
-My AE/EAE or fuel overrun cut needs some tweaking. When I let off the throttle, it will pull fuel as its supposed to, go full lean, then a split second later dip all the way to like 10-12AFR, then a split second later go back to full lean. Almost like it changes its mind about cutting fuel, then changes its mind again. Can't really understand what it could be.
-Cold starts, and well , startup in general still needs work. Its not bad, but its nowhere near as good as OEM. At best I have to crank it 3-4 cranks for it to start, and sometimes it will do 4-5 and even shake a bit before firing. Not sure if lean or rich, still experimenting with that.
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11-04-2014, 08:09 PM
#1442
Vlad,
Great thread. I've got my MS2e and AEM ready to install this week... been searching low and high to arm myself with all the info I can find before unplugging the factory ECU.
A few questions for ya?
Where do you have your IAT installed right now? I've been considering using the end of my cone air filter for installation, since I'll always be n/a, to help prevent heatsoak.
Also, I assume you tapped into the ECU for power/ground for the AEM. Did you also splice in the AEM Analog Output (white) wire into the ECU's harness for the O2?
And finally, speaking of O2s.... I also ran across these calibration numbers for the older 30-4100 sensor.
0.00v for 10.0
4.99v for 19.98
Not sure if they'll help or not, but hey, another set of numbers to try, right?
Looking forward to your continued journey!
Great thread. I've got my MS2e and AEM ready to install this week... been searching low and high to arm myself with all the info I can find before unplugging the factory ECU.
A few questions for ya?
Where do you have your IAT installed right now? I've been considering using the end of my cone air filter for installation, since I'll always be n/a, to help prevent heatsoak.
Also, I assume you tapped into the ECU for power/ground for the AEM. Did you also splice in the AEM Analog Output (white) wire into the ECU's harness for the O2?
And finally, speaking of O2s.... I also ran across these calibration numbers for the older 30-4100 sensor.
0.00v for 10.0
4.99v for 19.98
Not sure if they'll help or not, but hey, another set of numbers to try, right?
Looking forward to your continued journey!
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11-04-2014, 08:17 PM
#1443
Sure thing:
It's in the airbox. Just shoved it into the snorkel and its right under the filter element. Again though, I don't think its the AIT that's getting heatsoaked. It was reading 100*, which is fairly common from what I observed, and other times that reading was observed car was running fine. In fact, I sat in bumper to bumper traffic yesterday for a long time and car idled perfect the whole time.
correct, all 3 wires from the AEM are connected to the MS3.
I've come to the conclusion that no "set" numbers are gonna work for me this time. I don't really know if it's because different builders or different MS3 boards or what, but the last two megasquirts all worked well with the AEM with the pre-set AEM drop down values, and this one just.....doesn't
I adjusted the numbers until it did, and so now its all good. I'll post them when I grab them later.
It's in the airbox. Just shoved it into the snorkel and its right under the filter element. Again though, I don't think its the AIT that's getting heatsoaked. It was reading 100*, which is fairly common from what I observed, and other times that reading was observed car was running fine. In fact, I sat in bumper to bumper traffic yesterday for a long time and car idled perfect the whole time.
correct, all 3 wires from the AEM are connected to the MS3.
I've come to the conclusion that no "set" numbers are gonna work for me this time. I don't really know if it's because different builders or different MS3 boards or what, but the last two megasquirts all worked well with the AEM with the pre-set AEM drop down values, and this one just.....doesn't
I adjusted the numbers until it did, and so now its all good. I'll post them when I grab them later.
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11-04-2014, 08:28 PM
#1444
Retired Mech Design Engr
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seneca, SC
Posts: 5,009
Total Cats: 856
haha on the flip side though, it doesn't appear to actually be a VVT issue as much as a wiring issue of some sort.
Anyways, the car is as ready as it will be for boost. Drove it home after work after making adjustments and it drives pretty much as smooth and seamless as on the OEM ecu.
Couple small things:
-My AE/EAE or fuel overrun cut needs some tweaking. When I let off the throttle, it will pull fuel as its supposed to, go full lean, then a split second later dip all the way to like 10-12AFR, then a split second later go back to full lean. Almost like it changes its mind about cutting fuel, then changes its mind again. Can't really understand what it could be.
Anyways, the car is as ready as it will be for boost. Drove it home after work after making adjustments and it drives pretty much as smooth and seamless as on the OEM ecu.
Couple small things:
-My AE/EAE or fuel overrun cut needs some tweaking. When I let off the throttle, it will pull fuel as its supposed to, go full lean, then a split second later dip all the way to like 10-12AFR, then a split second later go back to full lean. Almost like it changes its mind about cutting fuel, then changes its mind again. Can't really understand what it could be.
Another possibility is that I have programmed in my best guess at low pulse width non-linearity for my yellow tops, but I don't think that is the improvement, and I suspect you have the ID curves programmed in already. So I'm sticking with the first story.
Finally, I did not comment on the hot restart and injector coil heat soak, because that has been discussed at length. I will have some real A-B data when I go to the return system, something you likely don't want to do with your goal of easy reversion to stock. (How's that for a non-comment comment).
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11-04-2014, 08:37 PM
#1445
Thanks for your input.
-When you say "tuned 15-25 over run range" what do you mean? Do you think it's too rich, so that AE pulls fuel, then gets to those cells and they are too rich, dumps a bit of fuel back in, and then overrun takes over? Cause that kinda sorta would make sense. I'll have to double check my bottom 2 rows, they are largely estimates since I have VEAL set up to not touch them (see our discussion about overrun/veal not playing well together in the lower rows)
-My ID's are not in the car. The car is running the stock 265cc (iirc) ev6 "purple" injectors.
-Yeah I was kinda hinting that this is the problem, since I see no other reason why the car would have the lean hot re-start. It's really not a huge problem, I'll address it later since it's not really high on the priority list
-When you say "tuned 15-25 over run range" what do you mean? Do you think it's too rich, so that AE pulls fuel, then gets to those cells and they are too rich, dumps a bit of fuel back in, and then overrun takes over? Cause that kinda sorta would make sense. I'll have to double check my bottom 2 rows, they are largely estimates since I have VEAL set up to not touch them (see our discussion about overrun/veal not playing well together in the lower rows)
-My ID's are not in the car. The car is running the stock 265cc (iirc) ev6 "purple" injectors.
-Yeah I was kinda hinting that this is the problem, since I see no other reason why the car would have the lean hot re-start. It's really not a huge problem, I'll address it later since it's not really high on the priority list
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11-04-2014, 10:07 PM
#1446
Retired Mech Design Engr
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seneca, SC
Posts: 5,009
Total Cats: 856
Yes, I mean those kPa's. I think VEAL has trouble down there because it is hard to be there and be steady state. But, with long downhills, I'm able to get steady state, or nearly so. IIRC, I set up a specific tuning session and just concentrated on that area.
I think it seems like the rich peg occurs after fuel cut, but that it is actually a delay in the WBO2 reading because there is so little flow (we did just close the throttle, after all).
Now you're making me doubt myself. Maybe tuning EAE is what fixed it by pulling fuel on decell. I will run tomorrow with no EAE and log. Then also with no low pulse correction. Will report back.
AE is not going to adjust fuel according to AFR readings. Do you mean EGO?
Right, I forgot you were still on stock inj.
*RESULTS*
1) With EAE off, and Inj Small Pulse Width (ISPW) OFF, I did not get any Lean-Rich-Lean action as I went into fuel cut.
2) Added EAE back, and still good
3) Added ISPW back, and at some places, like 2500 RPM, I could get some swing. I verified this as a rich spot. To fix, I actually reduced some of the ISPW compensation, and it is much improved.
4) Then added back the EAE. No real changes in if it went to L-R-L, but did almost always, upon throttle lift, AFR's move from whereever they are to off scale lean as Fuel Cut engages.
Sometimes I got some R-L-R swing, but only to 14 AFR, not the big swings to 10, like you mentioned, and I started with.
If you don't want to use VEAL, just log some slow downs from high RPM to LOW with the throttle cracked, so that you are running close to 20 kPa. That will give you a log from which you can tune those cells.
If anything, make them lean, because the only time you are there is when you are either going into fuel cut, or if you put clutch in, going to idle. Not making power, absorbing it. You just don't want to have a hesitation.
I think it seems like the rich peg occurs after fuel cut, but that it is actually a delay in the WBO2 reading because there is so little flow (we did just close the throttle, after all).
Now you're making me doubt myself. Maybe tuning EAE is what fixed it by pulling fuel on decell. I will run tomorrow with no EAE and log. Then also with no low pulse correction. Will report back.
AE is not going to adjust fuel according to AFR readings. Do you mean EGO?
Right, I forgot you were still on stock inj.
*RESULTS*
1) With EAE off, and Inj Small Pulse Width (ISPW) OFF, I did not get any Lean-Rich-Lean action as I went into fuel cut.
2) Added EAE back, and still good
3) Added ISPW back, and at some places, like 2500 RPM, I could get some swing. I verified this as a rich spot. To fix, I actually reduced some of the ISPW compensation, and it is much improved.
4) Then added back the EAE. No real changes in if it went to L-R-L, but did almost always, upon throttle lift, AFR's move from whereever they are to off scale lean as Fuel Cut engages.
Sometimes I got some R-L-R swing, but only to 14 AFR, not the big swings to 10, like you mentioned, and I started with.
If you don't want to use VEAL, just log some slow downs from high RPM to LOW with the throttle cracked, so that you are running close to 20 kPa. That will give you a log from which you can tune those cells.
If anything, make them lean, because the only time you are there is when you are either going into fuel cut, or if you put clutch in, going to idle. Not making power, absorbing it. You just don't want to have a hesitation.
Last edited by DNMakinson; 11-05-2014 at 08:01 AM. Reason: Added Results of Testing
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11-05-2014, 09:54 AM
#1447
Very interesting info, and thanks a bunch for following up and confirming.
I am looking over the VE map now, and it's scaled smoothed pretty good, there is not a single cell in the lower row (10kpa and 26kpa) that is higher than the next higher row (35kpa and 50kpa). So I'm not really sure that's my problem, but perhaps I need to drop the bottom rows even more? problem is, when I do that, some times when I'm actually hovering in those cells at very low throttle the car runs quite lean.
I thought for sure it was my AE, since in MS3 it adds and takes away based on throttle tip in and throttle lift. But now you got me back to square one, with your experiment. hmm
Oh and it doens't always dip all the way to 10, sometimes to 12-13, but you get the idea.
I don't think I messed with ISPW at all. I'll have to take a look at that now.
And lastly, yeah, I'll definitely have to replicate and log the event thoroughly, if at least to post it up so maybe you folks can see if I'm missing something.
I'm slowly working on cold start, I think this morning was better than yesterday, so I think I'm making progress on that front
ending up adding about 5% to crank PW every morning. Also having to add ASE since it wants to spilke lean a little bit after crank but before WUE. Car drove really well otherwise.
I'm so happy that the issues I'm having are just these tiny ones
I am totally okay if these are my only issues 
*edit: So far so good on the VVT issue too. I've added it as one of the gauges on TS so I can constantly make sure it's hitting VVT targets.
I am looking over the VE map now, and it's scaled smoothed pretty good, there is not a single cell in the lower row (10kpa and 26kpa) that is higher than the next higher row (35kpa and 50kpa). So I'm not really sure that's my problem, but perhaps I need to drop the bottom rows even more? problem is, when I do that, some times when I'm actually hovering in those cells at very low throttle the car runs quite lean.
I thought for sure it was my AE, since in MS3 it adds and takes away based on throttle tip in and throttle lift. But now you got me back to square one, with your experiment. hmm
Oh and it doens't always dip all the way to 10, sometimes to 12-13, but you get the idea.
I don't think I messed with ISPW at all. I'll have to take a look at that now.
And lastly, yeah, I'll definitely have to replicate and log the event thoroughly, if at least to post it up so maybe you folks can see if I'm missing something.
I'm slowly working on cold start, I think this morning was better than yesterday, so I think I'm making progress on that front
ending up adding about 5% to crank PW every morning. Also having to add ASE since it wants to spilke lean a little bit after crank but before WUE. Car drove really well otherwise. I'm so happy that the issues I'm having are just these tiny ones
I am totally okay if these are my only issues *edit: So far so good on the VVT issue too. I've added it as one of the gauges on TS so I can constantly make sure it's hitting VVT targets.
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11-06-2014, 11:35 PM
#1448
Well well well, look what the mailman dropped off today
Pretty much a brand new turbo at this point.
So now the only thing I'm waiting for is Flyin Miata to ship me their turbo inlet and silicone lower rad hose. Decided to go with their inlet vs piecing together my own. Just seems easier this way, and total comes out within 30 bux
If anyone has either or both of these parts for sale, speak up
Pretty much a brand new turbo at this point.
So now the only thing I'm waiting for is Flyin Miata to ship me their turbo inlet and silicone lower rad hose. Decided to go with their inlet vs piecing together my own. Just seems easier this way, and total comes out within 30 bux
If anyone has either or both of these parts for sale, speak up
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11-07-2014, 08:55 AM
#1451
I can never "just" rebuild one of these. My OCD'ness won't let me. 
Its $65 if there is nothing wrong with it and it's not damaged. And they ship it back via UPS only, which is like 17 or something, so total comes to around 83ish
I like doing business with them. Real nice guys, helpful and friendly on the phone, do a great job each time (I've used then numerous times). They're a small business and each invoice/receipt is hand signed saying "thank you for your business" or something like that.
I like doing business with them. Real nice guys, helpful and friendly on the phone, do a great job each time (I've used then numerous times). They're a small business and each invoice/receipt is hand signed saying "thank you for your business" or something like that.
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11-10-2014, 09:39 AM
#1454
I'm pretty much down to things to iron out with the tune:
- the cold starts
They are OK. Not bad, not rough anymore, but still not perfect. It takes a bit too many turns to fire up for my liking. Still trying to figure that one out, cause I don't think adding any more cranking pw's is helping. I've also fiddled with the spark map in those cells, which didn't seem to help too much. One other thing I'll be verifying is the idle valve position while cranking - I had it tuned decent, but that was on the previous ms3 so maybe it needs a bit of adjustment.
- the silly little rich dip on throttle lift
I am fairly confident it is related to AE or EAE, because yesterday I was keeping an eye on the "accel enrichments" gauge when it does that, and it spikes to like full enrich for a SPLIT SECOND right before it does that dip. I have looked over my AE settings and simply cannot figure out what is causing it to do that. Sorry, still no log, will get one for sure today.
Other than that, really happy with the way the car is running, and with this MS3.
- the cold starts
They are OK. Not bad, not rough anymore, but still not perfect. It takes a bit too many turns to fire up for my liking. Still trying to figure that one out, cause I don't think adding any more cranking pw's is helping. I've also fiddled with the spark map in those cells, which didn't seem to help too much. One other thing I'll be verifying is the idle valve position while cranking - I had it tuned decent, but that was on the previous ms3 so maybe it needs a bit of adjustment.
- the silly little rich dip on throttle lift
I am fairly confident it is related to AE or EAE, because yesterday I was keeping an eye on the "accel enrichments" gauge when it does that, and it spikes to like full enrich for a SPLIT SECOND right before it does that dip. I have looked over my AE settings and simply cannot figure out what is causing it to do that. Sorry, still no log, will get one for sure today.
Other than that, really happy with the way the car is running, and with this MS3.
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