Unfortunately it doesn't look like there's a "good" way to avoid everything unless you move the fuel stuff that mounted on the frame rail. On that note what IS that stuff for the NB mounted on the fuel rail? It looks like some sort of pressure regular but I thought the NB's is in tank? Is it a pulse damper or something? It could certainly be tidy'd up and done neater and take up less space. For how big the engine bay is in the Miata I'm quite surprised how tight some things are. I guess one of the advantages of a skunk2 manifold is that it makes the fuel rail more accessible. I want to add a fuel pressure transducer when I switch over to the BMM ECU and I'm thinking of how I'll do it. The space around the fuel rail is very tight.. Maybe an aftermarket fuel rail with a port that feeds a line connected to the pressure transducer..?

Finally spent a little time going over the Honda and giving it a good once over and checking things. Just a couple very minor things and she's lookin good.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...acf6a75e9b.jpg

You might be able to free up some space near the fuel rail with a different intake manifold, maybe the squaretop? Just reread what you said above, I thought you meant a Skunk2 throttlebody, not an intake manifold.

Regarding the fuel stuff, I believe you're correct that there's a pulse damper there, among other things. I would like to clean up/relocate that but it's not going to happen until I have a really good reason to.
I have AC still, so I'm also fighting those lines coming out of the firewall for reroute space.

Ya the squaretop hugs the engine tight which leaves more space by the frame rail but not much around the fuel rail. When it gets time to install the FF640's and switch to the BMM ECU I'll definitely be ditching the evap canister and figure out what to do with the jumble of fuel lines. It can definitely be moved a bit out of the way closer to the shock tower. I should do some googling and looking through other build threads to see what other folks are doing.

Any reason you're going with BMM? Not questioning the decision, it just seems to be one of the least common ECU choices. I haven't looked into it enough to know the pros/cons.

It seems like a good value for the ECU and the support forum seems knowledgeable. The ECU has a built in wideband controller which is nice one less thing to buy. I was thinking of doing a megasquirt but I don't think the tuning requirements will be too complicated so the BMM should suffice. There's a discord and the owner and others seem to be very helpful answering questions.

So I picked up some PFC 11 front and 97 rear pads for the miata and will install them this week in addition to some little things to finish up before the track weekend.

Brought the car for a corner balance and alignment and miraculously the car corner balanced near perfect so we didn't mess with the ride height at all. I will have to double check the ride height at each corner but I raised the rear up a tad as it settled a bit in the rear. Ride height should be 4.75" in the front and maybe an 1/8" lower in the rear. I was happy to see the total weight. Nice to get a baseline and it makes sense why this car is so easy to roll in the garage. 2341 lbs w/o me in it, but that's with the spare and tools in the trunk (I forgot to take them out). With me in it the car 2525 isn't bad at all.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...bab802f0d8.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...595b71c8eb.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...9e343057e8.jpg

Alignment going in the caster was very high ~7. The lowest we could get it was in the 5's. Driving it prior to the alignment the steering was heavy and this makes sense. A little odd we couldn't get caster <5 but it is what it is. Steering feels fine and not bad at all (yes it's not light but not bad).

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...20c0459c5b.jpg



https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...1f669951df.jpg

Front and rear camber is about the same at ~2.8 but I can always add more down the road. Took the car for a spin and it feels good now with the swaybars hooked up (I'm running SM solid endlinks). These tires definitely have a lot of grip. The street pads (wilwood bp20's in the front and stoptech street in the rear) don't have a lot of bite so the track pads are definitely a must for the track. Gotta button up a handful of small things and excited to get this thing on track.

Nice dude! The alignment looks good. FWIW, I maxed out at 4.7* of caster when I was running about the same camber and ride height. Obviously you’ve driven it around already, but I think the steering effort will be just fine with 5.3*.

How come you went a touch lower in the rear than the front?

Ah just dumb luck/laziness. The car settled a bit and these BC coilovers are a pain to adjust. I remove the lower bolts and twist the whole lower "body" to adjust the height. I guess the nice thing about the adjustment where you spin the lower body is it doesn't affect shock travel at all. Normally the more you lower the car the more you limit suspension travel (by having less range of the shock). I guess I could also adjust the upper two collars as well. But ya, long story short it's a pain to adjust the height of the lower body in the car (I have to use a prybar to push down on the suspension so the lower mounting point clears the control arm so it can spin). I have had some Miata folks tell me that some folks run with the rear lower than the front to get more weight on the rear so figured it wasn't a big deal as long as it was close.

Built in wideband is a cool feature for sure.

It sounds similar to Speeduino from a support perspective. Lots of people on Discord/FB who are willing to help out. I like that there's a community behind it, but have also been bitten by FW bugs and missing features at a few times. It hasn't been enough to push me to MS yet, but I give people a warning now when discussing ECU's. Usually it does everything I want, but if you're not willing to tinker with it a bit, then it's probably worth the extra money to go with something more developed.

Totally get it. You've got so many other changes going on in the suspension as well that you won't know what needs to be changed until you drive it at this point. I was just curious if it was deliberate or not.

In regards to changing the height on the BC's, I've always just put the rear end of the car in the air, loosened the lower collar and rotated the entire upper assembly using one of the spanner wrenches to adjust ride height. Takes a step out of the equation haha. Am I missing something here?

Ya we'll see, I'm a serial tinkerer so I'm hoping it'll be fine. I'm definitely not blind to the fact that the megasquirt would be easier/simpler because of all the existing users and info out there.

Thanks you made me think for a second and realize I'm an idiot and don't need to undo anything but loosen the bottom collar like you said.. *smh* The whole assembly will spin you just need to take the load off of the corner by raising up the side.

Man.. what's up with Miata batteries these days? I've come to learn they are a U1R size, and I guess not many (any?) other cars use that size so many places don't stock them, and thus they are more expensive. I thought miata stuff was cheap but I just bought an H8 AGM for my 328 daily and that was $180 from Walmart. Only place that carries U1R AGM locally it's $220 from AAP.. I couldn't justify paying that price for a tiny battery. I ordered one for $145 online.. *fingers crossed* I did consider a lawn/garden battery or another size.. Is there another size people use on miatas? Maybe a 51R?

I can't speak about the alternate sizing, but I just put an Antigravity ATX-12-HD battery in my car. Didn't take very long to make a hold down bracket for and shaved 20+ lbs off the car compared to my stock battery. Started the car fine too in 35*F weather, although I haven't tried to start it in anything colder. Still cost around $275 after shipping and the post adapters I needed to buy. But a little more cost than a regular battery for 20lbs of weight savings..? That’s pretty huge. Thought it would be worth mentioning but I also totally get it if you just want to stick with a stock AGM.

Someone on Reddit posted this lightweight Li-ion battery a few weeks back just after they installed it, so no long term feedback. But at the same price as a regular Miata battery and less than 7lbs, and with good reviews on the Zon, I have to say I'm tempted to try it. At 700 CCA it should have no trouble turning over the Miata engine, even if it's got an optimistic rating.

Thanks guys but I'm gonna rock the stock AGM as I don't want to have to worry/think about the battery. The higher amp hour LiPo batteries are still $$ and not worth it to me.

Just to record things I went out to measure the ride height on each corner and the passenger side are both at 4.5", driver's side front 4.75" and driver's rear at 4 5/8". So, looks like the passenger side settled a bit. I will probably raise up the right side front a bit to 4.75" just to try and keep the tire out of the fender liner. I know it'll affect the alignment slightly but should be fine. I think I'll get the harness installed as well before the weekend.

I'm eyeballing a Noco NLP20 for my car when my current battery bites the dust.
600 Cranking Amps
7 AH (18.9 Lead Acid Equivalent)
3.73 LBs
5 year warranty
$180

There's someone who frequents the forum/FB/Reddit who is running one. I figure it's worth a shot considering it's in the same price range as a parts store battery. I'm kinda surprised I haven't seen more people running them.
I think I'll need to print/fab up a bracket for it though, as it looks to be quite small compared to the stock sized units.

So I figured I might as well install my harness before the track weekend. I used a backing plate and eyelet bolt for the sub mounts and the lap belt on the tranny tunnel. On the driver's side I used a bendable "eyelet" that goes into the stock seatbelt location. This makes running 3 points on the street and 6 points on the track easy. Here they are installed. I didn't take any install pictures.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e3453197ea.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...97653947f2.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...aee3228d03.jpg

I also got PFC 11's for the front and 97's for the rear. Today I swapped pads and Murphy's law struck.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...65a3094f5f.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a34c803861.jpg

I'm not sure what the problem is but this is the first time I've swapped pads with these calipers. Basically, the nuts for the bridge bolt uses a lock nut. When tightening it down it started to gall/seize. I could feel it and the nut started binding up before even contacting the caliper.. pos. I'm not sure if Afco/stoptech supplies the hardware or who. Either way if you're running the Afco f88 caliper I gotta wonder if this happened to anyone else. I'm not a complete moron and this definitely wasn't on me. The driver's side I was able to reinstall but I could feel it starting to gall/bind up but it got tight. I full expect the driver's side bridge bolt to break next time I swap pads. Here, you can even see a picture of the galling on the driver's side bolt caused by the lock nut.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...981dd8d814.jpg

So, fortunately I ran to the Depot and picked up another 1/4" 4.5" long bolt. Whew. I got some lock washers but no luck nut. This bolt isn't doing a whole lot and I don't think a locknut is necessary. I have a bridge bolt on my stoptech calipers on my honda and never had this issue swapping pads many times but it doesn't use a locknut. I don't understand why the locknuts gall sometimes like this.. maybe someone can explain it to me.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c3ffd012b0.jpg

Good thing I ordered a new battery.. it started the car a week ago but the thing is dead dead even w/ a tender. New battery in. Like I said I didn't want to have to think about it so got an AGM oem replacement.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...301e682add.jpg

I raised up the passenger side so it now reads 4.75" and the driver's side now reads 4 7/8" but that's close enough. Passenger rear reads 4 5/8". I took the car for a spin and she feels good! It's a cool day here so it's definitely making a little more power. The pads have a lot of bite which is nice for the track. I realized the prop valve probably had a little too much rear bias which made the street pads feel even worse, but the front wilwood bp20 street pads are definitely too gentle for my liking. I think I got the pads bedded in well and boy do they screech! :D Brakes feel good though. The silver wheels are now a shade of gunmetal. They'll be black after this weekend.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...38307649c0.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...21311cf3b1.jpg

I can't really tell how the car handles for now in terms of understeer/oversteer but I'll figure it out quick and make some adjustments this weekend. Thanks Zak for your advice in terms of a starting point with the coilovers. I think I have them now a few turns from full soft so they definitely need to be stiffened up a bit. Car feels good and I'm looking forward to some fun.

No such issues for me. I've probably torqued those bolts down twice on each caliper with no snapping off, but I did notice that the lock nut was uncomfortably tight and seemed to be damaging the threads more than any other lock nut I can recall using.

I have had an issue with the bleeders though. One bleeder I removed had a very clear divot in it, right where the taper seals to the caliper body. Multiple bleeders have weeped ever so slightly, but that seems to have stopped after a track session put some real heat into them. This is my first go with aluminum calipers, so I am not rushing to overtorque them and damage the caliper body. For my DIY Afco setup I ended up going with the Supermiata style of hose where one bleeder is replaced with a banjo bolt, and the NPT fitting is now just a plug. That let me get rid of the worst bleeders.

I ordered two pretty pricey brass bleed screws off eBay that will go in next time I bleed the brakes. Since these calipers are no longer available, I'm gonna do whatever I can to prevent damage to them.

Ya bizarre.. not sure what the issue is but just be careful. I always start threads by hand and just torque the bridge bolt down enough so that the sleeve no longer spins. No tighter than that.

Interesting I haven't fully removed a bleeder but did notice the bleeders tended to weep a bit unless they were good and tight. I will keep an eye on them for sure. Like you said, I'm wary cranking down too hard and damaging the threads on these calipers. They don't seem to be weeping anymore so that's good. Regarding the bleeders.. is there any concern with brass bleeders if the calipers are Aluminum? Maybe they're an alloy not pure Aluminum. I thought I've read that Aluminum and Brass don't like each other and can corrode against each other over time..? Honestly not sure just throwing that out there.

Thank me later only if/when you’re satisfied with how the car handles! :rofl: Now onto playing with the prop valve next. I think you’re gonna be stoked with the car given all the work you’ve put in haha.

Regarding the bridge bolt/nuts galling, I had one on my BX11.75 Wilwood kit do the same thing as well. Maybe the same bolt supplier or something? I actually uninstalled and reinstalled the nut a couple times because it felt like I must have been crossthreading it at first. Weird.

Ha.. well if the car handles like poo that's not your fault, at least I have a reasonable expectation of HOW the adjustments should work so that's good. I was told by the previous owner who installed the coilovers that they're pretty old so I'm sure they've had better days but it is what it is. For the record I got the racing beat 54103 1.125x.188 wall swaybar for the front which I think is the medium thickness bar (maybe shoulda got the bigger one) and the SM rear swaybar. Both bars are set at full stiiff.

Weather is looking cruddy for tmw (cold and wet) but this is typical east coast weather this time of year. Either way I'll have fun sliding it around and getting it setup.

Interested to see where you land with the sway bars. I have a big RB 1.25” sway bar in the soft position and a stock bar in the rear. And my car is a little bit on the oversteery side at low speeds where the aero isn’t doing as much work. Dunno how big bar/soft position compares to med bar/stuff position, but I’d imagine your car would be much more oversteery than mine with the stuff bar in the rear. Interested in hearing your thoughts after this weekend, although with the weather I’m sure you’ll be sliding around a bunch regardless lol.

Looking forward to the updates! Doesn’t sound like great testing weather but should still be a bunch of fun. I feel like I’ve learned more about vehicle handling during wet track days than anywhere else lol.

Well, car made it back in one piece so it was a successful weekend on track. First day sucked weather wise. Cold and wet blows but I made the most of it. First off setup. Appreciate your input Zak, based off of what you said, I set the front coilovers to 18 clicks from full soft for the front and 12 from full soft for the rear. I didn't know what to expect but I ended up leaving them that way the whole weekend.

So early Saturday was nasty. Steady rain and highs in the upper 30's. By the afternoon it cleared up and was then just cold and windy. Here's a shot from the morning.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e63dbaf370.jpg

For those not familiar. Summit point has 3 tracks. Shenandoah is one of them and some people refer to it as a giant auto-x course because there are a lot of turns. I've been on it 10+ days so I am very familiar w/ it and it's a fun track. There's a karousel in it which is very hard on cars but a lot of fun. Many of the turns are actually off camber so lines through turns are not traditional where you want to stay far to track right or left before turn in. In many turns you have to turn in early to avoid parts of the off camber sections. First session was literally just an ice skating rink with pools and puddles everywhere. 2nd session wasn't much better but the rain stopped at least and the track was wet so I could see a little better how the car felt. Suspension wise the car felt good so I didn't touch the suspension settings. Here's the track layout.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c1d1c90a04.png

On the 3rd session of the day I was finally able to push the car a bit and got some heat in the brakes. Towards the end of the 3rd session I noticed the car seemed like it wouldn't accelerate or was struggling bad. Letting off the throttle I could hear the brake pads screeching so thought fuck.. let me just limp back to the pits and see what's up. My first thought was a stuck/seized rear caliper. Unfortunately, as the brakes dragged more the friction increased and the resistance got higher so I couldn't even make it back to the pits. At least it was towards the end of the session and they black flagged everyone in. After the car sat for a few minutes the brakes cooled a bit (and perhaps the pressure on the pads did as well) I was able to put it in first and putz back to the paddock. Here the car was stuck on big bend.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...cd53cfdbdd.jpg

Getting back to the paddock we noticed both front wheels were very hard to turn so it wasn't just one caliper. Basically the line was holding pressure against the caliper pistons which meant it was either the MC or something with the prop valve possibly. The pedal was SUPER stiff and there was no play so I thought that maybe removing a lot of the free play in the shaft was a bad thing. I loosened the 14mm locknut, and added back about 1/4" of play in the MC rod. Long story short that fixed it for the rest of the weekend. I'm thinking that as the fluid heats up maybe the slack in the MC rod gets taken up so it needs that free play. With most of the free play removed the pressure has no where to go and it applies force to the brakes. So, do NOT remove too much free play from the MC rod. The brake pads I'm running are pfc 11/97's f/r and I ended up with 6 full turns from fully open on the prop valve. I'll say I love these pfc pads. Very easy to modulate, lots of bite, their only downside is they are loud as hell and screech.

Other things regarding the car later on day 1 I was rubbing pretty good in the karousel. I don't mind fender liner rubbing, that's no big deal, but it was rubbing a bit on the metal fender bumper tabs. The suspension also settled a 1/4" on the front passenger side again (the karousel will probably get any stiction out of any bushings). I ended up cutting a tiny bit of the metal fender and bumper tabs off at home day 2 before heading to the track and raising the right front up again 1/4". That solved the rubbing issue in the karousel. While I had the wheel off I checked the Afco F88 caliper. The sleeve spins freely. The instructions say to torque the bridge bolt down until the sleeve stops spinning but there's no way I could without snapping that bolt. Ultimately not a big deal but just a heads up for anyone else.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...85bf97cfcc.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...02d8e9dee2.jpg

Day 2 was sunny and got better as the day went on. I missed my morning session as I was tinkering with the car but it was in the upper 20's and I figured I wouldn't miss much. Of course like many track days my gopro missed the last session and last half of my 2nd to last session so it missed my fast times which sucks. My best time for the day I ran a 1:47.7 and I missed fourth on that lap so that's worth a few tenths maybe.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...594bcd0111.jpg


Some observations.. I'm running 245 square Nexen Nfera sport R's. The highs of the day Sunday were 47 degrees but it was sunny. These tires took several laps (probably 3) to get upto a good temp and honestly I think they just got better and better into each session. It just took a while to get heat into the tires on a cold day with only 140hp crank. As the day went on and it got warmer I realized the tires kept getting more grip with heat and I could've definitely pushed my braking zones and carried more speed through turns. Honestly the suspension felt fairly neutral. Trail braking it was easy to get the car to rotate and I didn't really notice any understeer either. Coming from an s2000 it feels a lot like a baby s2000. Little lighter, nimbler, and less power. Brakes were great, no complaints at all. A couple times I locked them up in the braking zones a bit but it wasn't hard to modulate at all. Steering no issue. I'm used to having to make quick corrections and when I trail braked a bit too much into a turn it was easy to catch with some countersteer.

So for the bad/issues. The car needs more powa. :) I also noticed in the later sessions Sunday when WOT after apex on a couple turns the tach would bounce a bit like the clutch was slipping. Keep in mind the tach didn't jump a lot, but more like a blip where the rpms would jump 500-1k rpms for a split second then go back down. Now, I want to rule out a slipping clutch since it's brand new and way below the power threshold so it makes me wonder if I was getting inside wheelspin and maybe I don't have a closed diff/torsen? I thought I did but maybe not..? Is there an easy check for this? I know torsens when unloaded can act like an open diff but I wasn't hopping curbs when I noticed the revs jump a bit. I also tried a session on the skidpad and it didn't feel like I was spinning both rear wheels at times.. My driving was not great as I was quite rusty.. I missed forth a bunch in turns and I was definitely being a bit of a pu**y not chucking the car into a couple turns a bit harder. Just have to get used to the car and need more seat time. Finally, at the end of the day it looks like I have the dreaded junk2 TB hang now. It didn't do it till I was ready to go home, but now the rpms will sit at 1500 or 2k rpms. I manually actuated the throttle rotor and it feels like there's a bit of resistance/friction now and it's not as smooth. Not sure what's up with that but I'm sure that's contributing to the sticking.

I'm happy with the car and had a lot of fun. I tried to get Miguel to take it for a spin to let me know what he thought (he's got the Mustang and runs a 1:38 on Shenandoah for comparison, but he and the car are fast) but maybe next time. He's used to power so when I took him for a ridealong for a session he laughed when I said I'm giving it full throttle.. lol The car definitely could've done a 1:46 or better. Suspension isn't terrible. I could definitely see how a good suspension would help but the BC's did alright. Not really sure what I'm going to do with it next. Probably let it sit for a week then decide if I want to start wrenching again.

Does anyone use any phone app lap timers? I've used Racechrono pro in the past and while an AIM would obviously be ideal maybe the data from this isn't too bad. My phone wasn't hard mounted so the G data isn't accurate. I use a Qstarz 818xt external gps running at 5hz that connects via bluetooth.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5337627e0a.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5538676bec.jpg

I don't have many good videos but I'll post a few vids in another post. If you made it this far and read all that thanks. :p

I use the phone internal GPS as well. What I've heard is that it's good enough for overall lap times, but don't bother trying to read into sector times or even corner by corner analysis.

I know you said the brakes worked really well, but I had a complaint about my DIY Afco setup and am wondering if anyone else has it with the off the shelf kits:The pedal is firm but it's not as consistent in height as I remember it felt with the stock brakes last year. My caliper is really well mounted and there shouldn't be any flex there, or in the caliper itself. I'd never had to give the brakes a tap on the straightaway before, and yesterday at VIR I was doing it into every major braking zone in order to keep the pedal consistent and high. Maybe I'm feeling the result of the spindle itself flex?

I stopped using the internal phone GPS because I was having issues with it missing starts/stops and use an external gps unit. The stock internal gps runs at 1hz whereas the external runs at 5hz and uses DBAS I believe, so it should definitely be more accurate but hard to say how accurate. I would think the G sensor and circle should be ok with a solid mount but honestly don't know.

I definitely didn't experience that this weekend. I'm not sure what conditions led to that in your setup (long sweepers?). There's only one longish sweeper on Shenandoah and it's not too long (finishes top of 3rd). Brakes were always consistent when I went to go for them fortunately.

Here's a video from Sunday. It sucks I didn't catch the last session but you can see the revs climbing a bit at about 30-31 seconds in. The revs climb about 500rpm and then it "catches." Maybe that's just how the torsen works? Not a big deal but just something I noticed. Any thoughts are appreciated.

Solid weekend recap, man! Stoked to see the suspension worked as desired! Looks like you got a little bit of everything, from weather to minor mechanicals haha. Wet track days are fun… for a bit. Glad the sun came out for you guys on Sunday though.

Good to see you figured out the booster pushrod adjustment issue quickly. I had mine adjusted for minimal free play like yours at first, but figured there should be a little bit of dead play in the pedal for when everything heats up. Guess that answers that haha.

Finally got around to washing the car and swapping the pads to street pads. I set the wilwood prop valve to 8 turns from fully open which makes the brakes feel much better on the street and more front bias. I drove the car and the TB hangs like a sumabitch now. Almost everytime gently letting off the throttle it'll cause it to hang.. damn junk2. As I mentioned before it has a noticeable squeak now when operating the throttle plate and I feel a bit of friction. Crap like this is what drives me nuts with aftermarket parts sometimes. I don't want to waste a lot of time screwing with this TB. I could try to get junk2 to send me another one but from what folks have said they're no better. We'll see.. Next plan of action is getting the BMM ECU working. I have to install the FF640's and DW200 pump so I'll probably mess with the junk2 TB while I'm swapping injectors. Car is clean again. I had a minor 4 off at the last track day and got a bit of mud down one side so needed to clean that off. Also i like the wheels silver. Meguiar's heavy duty wheel cleaner works wonders for cleaning brake dust.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...24ffac2a34.jpg

Another thing after the track weekend I noticed is the clutch pedal clicks. Seems a common problem and the stopper broke. Ordered a new one:
Finally.. the plan for the BMM Ecu is installing a 36-1 trigger wheel, fuel pressure transducer, oil pressure transducer (this will probably go in with the turbo), oil temp sensor, and 3 port mac solenoid for boost control. It has a built in wideband controller so that'll go in of course. Once I get the car running on the BMM ECU I'll install the kraken kit. I will try to document a lot of steps of the BMM install since there isn't too much info out there.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a2d91e1392.jpg

One question for you guys on the kraken kit.. did you need to port the wastegate port at all on the 2560 turbo? I thought I recall someone mentioning that they did it due to boost creep but not sure. Also the clutch chatter is still present and annoying as it seems to cause the whole drivetrain to shake/shudder. Is the drivetrain "shudder" on this car much worse simply due to the design of the PPF and no transmission mounts? It would make sense to me and it seems to be a common problem and complaint. It's much worse in reverse I just have to slip the clutch a little higher.

I can't remember, did you drill another hole in the throttle cam to preload the return spring a little more on your TB? I ended up drilling mine only 3mm or so past the stock hole and that solved the throttle hang for me for good. I ended up spraying a little bit of penetrating oil into the surface that the cam pivots on and that seemed to stop any squeaks that it was producing. Can't quite picture it in my head right now though... it was almost a year ago that I did it.

In reference to the wastegate, I didn't port mine. I ran the stock 8psi wastegate with a couple spacers to bump it up to 9pai. On my stock motor, it crept from 9psi up to 10 from ~5,700rpm to redline. With my built motor, it would creep a from 9psi to 11 at redline. It doesn't seem to creep at all on e85, I'm assuming because of the more advanced ignition timing spooling the turbo less. I never felt a need to alleviate the small amount of creep. As soon as I set up EBC and turned up the boost, the creep became irrelevant.

What clutch are you running again? I'm sorry, having trouble remembering everyone's setups with all the build threads I'm following now lol.

Yes I followed OptionXII's instructions to the T, and drilled the hole in the exact same as his. I've googled the issue a bit and seems semi-common for people to have to drill the hole and require more tension to avoid the throttle hang. I will mess with it next time the TB is off.

Thanks appreciate that info that's good to know. I probably won't bother porting mine either then. Creeping to 10psi is pretty minimal and not bad. I want to be able to keep boost low to preserve the stock motor and tranny for the time being. I'm running the SM clutch and installed a new ACT prolite flywheel. Both were brand new and I was very careful to keep the surfaces clean and install it properly. A little chatter isn't bad as much as it's just a little annoying. I was thinking because the tranny doesn't have its own mount any chatter gets magnified in this car and translates into drivetrain movement/shudder. I just gotta slip it a little higher..

Ok ok, we’re on the same page then haha. I’m running the SM clutch with ACT ProLite flywheel on my car as well. Did you go full face or 4 puck for the clutch disc? I’m running the SM 4 puck in mine and it chatters a decent bit (no shade thrown to SM, I know it comes with the design). You’ll get used to it, there’s a very finite amount of throttle vs clutch pedal depression that gets the car moving without a fuss.

I'm just running the full face sprung disc. I wanted to keep stock engagement/no chatter but it is what it is. Not a big deal. Seems like clutch chatter is a problem for miatas.. not sure what exactly causes it.

So I wanted to report back about my issue with the skunk2 TB.. I tinkered with it yesterday, reassembled it, and now it doesn't hang (only drove it yesterday so we'll see after time). Cliff notes is that it's something with the bushing/spring that is causing the friction. I won't retype it all link here: https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...7/#post1648804

I did initially try to drill a stiffer hole and F'd it up a bit (just a bit to the inside) which I think was causing the spring to bind when the nut is tightened down so I just reused the old hole and it felt smooth on reassembly. I also hit the spring with some silicone lube. We'll see what happens. Hopefully it's fixed but I'm not holding my breath.

I believe I ran into the same concern as you when I first installed my throttle body. Tiny bit of friction on the bushing that was solved with spray lube (can’t remember what I used). In my case, I don’t believe the friction was causing the rev hang issue. Additional spring preload solved that.

My TB always felt drag-free while cold and then would incur the rev hang issue after getting up to temp. Something expanding and binding just enough once it got hot obviously…

Do you remember how much additional spring preload you have? I should've clarified above I'm using the same/similar hole position that OptionXII suggested in his skunk2 thread. I tried to drill an even stiffer position and messed it up a bit so went back to the "OptionXII preload position."

After sleeping on it and thinking some more.. I wonder if the bushing is binding on the inside as it spins on the shaft? It would make sense that friction might increase as it heats up and since the bushings inner diameter is much larger than the shaft there will be play in it.. I only sprayed some lube on the outside of the bushing and the spring but maybe I need some grease on the inside of the bushing and around the throttle plate shaft...? I also have to wonder why the inner diameter of the bushing is so much larger than the shaft.. Regardless if the bushing is spinning (I'm not sure it is but I think so) it probably needs grease. Here's a picture of what I'm talking about regarding the bushing.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...dde36b641f.jpg

Edit: Just another thought.. maybe the main issue is that the bushings inner diameter is too large? A lot of force is exerted on the bushing with the spring loaded and being too large it can't evenly distribute the force which results in the friction/binding? As noted in the other thread, there is no friction or issue with the throttle shaft and main bushings so this part is likely causing all the problems..

Ah, ok. I misunderstood your previous post and thought you reverted to the stock spring hole. Mine should be drilled out close to where yours is. IIRC, I drilled mine 3-4mm further than the original hole.

I believe my bushing is the same as yours. Can confirm tonight and see if it still has any lube on it from when I tore apart/installed the TB a year ago.

Thanks man but all good. You can't see the bushing without removing the nut and taking it apart. Definitely don't do that on my behalf as it'll start sticking after that.. :p Did you apply lube on the inside or outside of the bushing?

Alright fair enough haha. I lubed the whole damn bushing. IIRC, it was when I installed my S2 manifold at the same time and the shop doors were about to close. Was more of a shoot from the hip maneuver than a surgical diagnosis :rofl: I think I used a little bit of screwloose on it. Never gave me an issue after so I circled back around to it.

The bushing is mostly there to sit inside the spring and help it hold shape. I wouldn't worry about it being too large on the throttle shaft. Don't look at what anyone else does for spring tension, just look at your TPS. If you gently give it a couple %TPS and it stays when you let off, it needs more tension. Once this problem is gone, adding more spring tension doesn't achieve anything.

If there's binding, take everything apart, remove the spring, and reassemble, check for binding. That'll eliminate any issues with the spring, and you can feel exactly where the binding is.

!
 

I drove the car for 45 mins yesterday and no binding whatsoever after I reassembled it. At this point I'll just have to watch it carefully. I'm thinking the last track weekend where the nut backed off a bit maybe allowed the spring/bushing to move a bit and cause binding..? Hard to say. On the street it doesn't look like an issue since it isn't stressed too much and weather is still cool. If it acts up again it'll likely be on track where it sees a whole lot of cycles and heat. Once I get the aftermarket ECU installed it'll be easier to watch/track the issue. I didn't want to just go throw a whole lot of tension on the spring as it'll obviously be more likely to break. Appreciate the advice!

So before delving into the BMM stuff, I need to get the fuel stuff sorted first. Makes sense to just install the fuel pump and injectors first rather than running the stock injectors and changing things later. So first thing is the fuel pump. Installed a DW200 pump. Install was straightforward. You need to trim the pipe about an inch as the DW pump is longer.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8a2222fbcc.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...09a43e04af.jpg

For injectors I'm running FF640's. I've been told to clock them to 9 and 3 o clock. The NB won't allow the connector to go straight up and apparently they shouldn't be installed connector down. Again, pretty straightforward install.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8a425c2ab8.jpg

Now, for the rats nest on the passenger frame rail and around it, all the stuff is no longer needed there (evap solenoid, and there's a vacuum line to a solenoid that goes to a map sensor). They can all be removed. I want a fuel pressure sensor (transducer) so I am mounting one inline where the stock fuel pulse dampener is and I'm removing it. I am making some -6 an line and fitting to mount it. The sensor is a Honeywell. I used a cheap pipe bender to bend down the oem fuel line so it comes forward parallel with the frame rail. This moves it a bit out of the way. Here is my first quick mockup. I made a simple bracket that will mount to some existing 6mm threaded holes on the frame rail. Also, this gives plenty of space for the radiator hose now and I will need to make a bracket for it.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...51882ae186.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6515d4e04a.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d8e81fab4e.jpg

Here are a couple shots making some AN line and the new line in place. I got a 180 degree fitting but I actually need a 150degree fitting to connect to the stock hard fuel line. To connect the fuel rail I used a 5/16" SAE fitting to AN line fitting. These fittings are nice as you don't need to use an SAE to AN adapter fitting. It cleans up the passenger frame rail quite a bit.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...48975d713e.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8a963d6399.jpg
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https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...25569d0d9d.jpg

Once I get the 150degree fitting from summit I can reassemble stuff and start messing with the new ECU. I have been slacking working on the Miata. I've still got about 3 yards of mulch to spread for the yard and been doing a bunch of yardwork. Beautiful time of year now.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...629cf16701.jpg

Fuel line project's looking good man! Are you gonna wire the EV14 connectors straight into your engine harness or run the supplied jumpers? On my car, the jumpers added too much length to be tucked away neatly and made the harness kinda rat nest-y.

Excited to see how the fuel lines end up. I've always hated that mess of pipes/hoses.

What's the reasoning for rotating the injectors that way? Is that supposed to help with leaks or something? I'm running the same ones so I'm curious, I just threw mine in and ran.

I thought about it but with the injectors rotated 90 degrees the oem plugs look like they'll be a bit short, so I'm just going to run these jumper harnesses for the time being. I don't want to take the time to mess with it now but down the road I will definitely think about it. With everything back on you won't see the rats nest as it's tucked underneath the rail.

A couple folks on the BMM discord said for the NB's they should be rotated 90 degrees. I'm deferring to them. Jesse said he checked it with a scope at 90 degrees and the spray pattern was good. Apparently with the FF640's they spray at a downward angle (opposite the connector). They obviously won't go in with the connector facing up on the NB's because of the head in the way. Ya it's really nice to clean that area up. It drove me nuts too with the radiator hose pressing against it. I can now make a proper mount for the radiator hose and not just have it wedged between things on the frame rail. Ideally at some point it'd be nice to make a hard pipe for that radiator hose but that'll be down the road.

I got the 150 degree fitting from summit and was able to finish the fuel line. On checking the Honeywell sensors from Sager electronics they sent me two gauge pressure transducers rather than one gauge and one absolute. An absolute pressure sensor should be used for fuel pressure and gauge pressure sensor will be used for oil pressure. So, I simply installed a 1/8" npt plug into the fitting for the time being. The absolute sensor should read AAAX vs. SAAAX.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0d6e9a265e.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...751c7ed9fa.jpg

Now onto the BMM stuff. I opted for the BMM over the Megasquirt as it seems to be a few bucks cheaper, have some additional features (it has a built in wideband controller, built in map sensor, and supports DBW TBs, as well as some others), and have good support (there's a discord for BMM). It also has the option of adding sensors that can be read by the ecu and read on the CAN bus. The sensor I will be adding now is a fuel pressure sensor (transducer). You need a Bosch LSU sensor (part #17025) and you need to run a vacuum line to the ECU. The ECU comes with an aux harness for adding inputs to the ECU and a nice plug for the LSU sensor which makes it easy.

I've opted to mount the fuel pressure sensor in place of the pulse dampener on the passenger frame rail. It was nice to remove the rats nets of lines on my NB1 and clean up things on the passenger frame rail. I used a cheap tubing bender I had to bend the OEM 5/16" fuel line down parallelish to the frame rail. For a fuel pressure sensor, there are cheaper ones available on amazon, but it seems like a no brainer to pay a few more bucks and get a brand name like Honeywell. You want an absolute pressure sensor (not gauge) the one I went with was (Honeywell MIPAN2XX100PAAAX). This cost $55 from sager electronics. The corresponding harness for this sensor is CONN-75732 from ballenger motorsports. It has a standard 1/8" npt port and has 3 wires, +5V, sensor ground, and signal wire. Make sure to use sensor ground at the ECU not just a chassis ground on the car. The BMM ECU has the ability to add fuel to keep the car from leaning out should fuel pressure drop which is nice. Also, it's nice to be able to monitor fuel pressure.

Another thing that is highly recommende is a 36-1 crank trigger wheel. OEM Mazda part: part # ZM0111408. It cost me $26. Also a license for Tunerstudio software.

One thing not mentioned in the install guide for the BMM ECU is that you should install a microsd card at time of installation as you have to open up the ECU to install it. It'd be a pita to have to remove the ECU to install it as you have to open up the case. You just open up the case, slide the mechanism to unlock it, and pop the card in. I used an old 32GB microsd card I had which I've been told should be plenty big. By default the ECU will log to the SD card if the ECU is powered up via +12V (with the key). If it's connected to the laptop first via USB, it doesn't log to the SD card.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c1f86ed09d.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e8f373b109.jpg

Here's the orientation of the BMM ECU. It uses the OEM brackets which is nice and the USB port and vacuum line point up so they don't interfere with the pedals. I also repurposed a vacuum joiner from the Evap solenoid or somewhere which allowed me to use a slightly larger vacuum line than he specified (it's what I had on hand). The vacuum hose was run through the hole where I believe the cruise control something ran through. I just needed to open up the hole a bit. The vacuum line goes to a barb I installed on the back of the intake manifold.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...678cb565f8.jpg
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https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b1bdc560d6.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...211933a19c.jpg

The wideband harness I fed in through the main/big grommet by the brake MC. Used a coat hanger and like running an amp wire for a stereo. Of course the O2 sensor had to be a little b**ch and didn't wanna come out but no big deal I don't plan on using it again so mutilated it removing it.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f25ba51175.jpg
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https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...94f4cab968.jpg

The crank trigger wheel it's recommended to install AFTER the first start not before. In hindsight you probably could just do it before. After this everything should be installed and ready for the first start.

Solid progress, man! Seems like you’ve thought everything through really well before pulling the trigger. Interested to hear about your experiences with the BMM ECU. The integrated wideband controller is a really cool feature.

Again, the fuel line setup looks super clean :bigtu:

So regarding the first start. I'd say it's probably covered well in a bunch of other places so I'll try to summarize it very briefly for anyone new and not put anyone to sleep. Load a base map and try to start the car. Once the care runs/idles, set the base map to use static timing (this allows you to set the base timing so the computer and mechanical readings are synced). Use a timing light to verify the timing is correct. Then reset the timing back to dynamic. Then calibrate all your sensors (mainly TPS or any others). Then it's all tuning. I'm not at all familiar w/ Tunerstudio so have been looking up videos on it. OGPedXing has some great info and a series using Megasquirt. A lot of the same stuff applies to the BMM ecu. I won't delve into tuning as there's plenty of info out there it looks like and OGPedXing does a great job explaining everything.

With all that said, the car started up fine on the first start. I set the timing and surprisingly didn't have to change the offset timing angle at all. Apparently NB's are usually pretty spot on whereas NA's usually need it offset/changed. After that I installed the crank trigger wheel. Car starts up OEMish or faster now. I drove it around and tuned it a bit. It needs some more tuning but it's not terrible. I will mess with tuning it over the next week and then probably get to installing the turbo. One thing I'm thinking/debating about is turning the IAC valve duty cycle down and mechanically opening the throttle plate more on the junk2 TB to hopefully avoid the TB sticking but I'm not sure.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4930efa00a.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...37ed0ea406.jpg

I realize I forgot to comment more on the BMM ECU. It seems like a solid solution and is basically plug and plug for an NB. For the NA's you have to do some minor wiring changes but for the NB it's basically plug and play. You don't need to wire up an external wideband and wire it into the ECU which is nice, and Jesse shipped out the ECU configured fully for my NB1 (like the sensor settings/etc) so I just plug it in and it's ready to go. There are some minor things like updating the firmware with the latest firmware (FOME software) but it was pretty straightforward. For those that don't know the BMM ECU is based off of the FOME open source software. It stands for Free Open Motorsports ECU. I guess it originally started as RUSefi or some other previous name but has branched or changed since then. It is still getting software updates and is supported which is nice.

Garage sandals are the GOAT. I'm running around the garage in flip flops way more often than I'd like to admit.

I'm surprised the car is starting up like OEM. That's been one of the most difficult things for me so far with tuning. Warm/Hot starts are dialed in fine, but I usually spend some time cranking on cold starts. The BMM unit looks cool. I'll be interested to see how your experience with it continues to go.

Congrats on the first start! :party:

I'm really hoping to fire my K swap for the first time this week... still not quite finished with wiring.

I'm pleasantly surprised as well. I know cold starts are usually a problem w/ standalones but this thing has better cold starts than warm starts. Warm starts it blips higher (which is normal I've read) and hunts ~1500rpm for a few seconds then settles down. I drove it around a bit yesterday tuning the fuel which is decent now and I used some existing timing maps out there to set the timing map and it drives well. I will probably tune it a bit more but I'm pretty happy with it and will probably get to installing the turbo pretty soon. I don't drive it much on the street so having a perfect warm start doesn't bother me as I'll fix it eventually but no rush. Being a long time honda guy I'm definitely missing the vtec up top but the turbo should help. :D

Thx. You are definitely doing a whoooole lot of stuff. I've been watching your thread and it's coming along nicely! Hopefully my turbo setup can be reliable on track. I'm going to keep the boost down and just drive it and have fun.

Not too much to update on. I was out of town the last week but I've been meaning to create a quick video to show the nice cold start with the BMM ECU and 36-1 crank trigger wheel and finally did it yesterday. Just been tuning the car a bit and it definitely feels a little more peppy over the stock ecu (not sure if the butt dyno is accurate). I'm guessing that probably has to do with a more aggressive timing map and 93 octane whereas the stock ecu was tuned for 87. I've been enjoying driving the car periodically to run some errands so honestly I'm sorta hesitant to rush and rip it apart to start the turbo install.. :p It's a fun car and feels good. The BC coilover shocks are definitely not great as the dampening over bumps is quite harsh (on good shox fast dampening (like bumps) can still be compliant while slower dampening is stiff) but they're ok for putzing around and a little bumpy/bouncy. At some point down the road I'll look into some nice suspension. Here's a clip of the cold start:

As summer approaches here I will probably start getting to work on the turbo install as the car doesn't have a/c and it becomes a little less fun to putz around. As with everything I TRY to plan ahead which is where I have a few questions for you guys.. I'm going to install the Kraken top mount manifold and a garrett 2560 turbo. Is there plenty of clearance for the water pipe that runs underneath the exhaust manifold and to the heater core? Do people bend it? Also, I've seen some folks replace the "mixing manifold" where the radiator hose goes from the water neck to the radiator. I'm not running a/c or PS so now I have tons of space and always prefer making things a bit neater and keeping things away from the turbo/etc but maybe it's completely unnecessary. If anyone wants to steer me straight I'd appreciate it. I've seen a Kraken install video or two but for a track car I want to make sure things have proper clearances of rubber parts to hot parts. My mantra is always trying to do things "oem-like."

With that said.. for the water lines to the turbo I'm looking at running hard pipes to soft lines. Something like these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/155357133228 or maybe these and use a cheap pipe bender: https://www.ebay.com/itm/314460103138 Ideally I would like to run a flanged pipe for the oil drain to goto a soft line to the pan but I will need to poke around and try to find one. I know many people use a flange with AN fitting and braided line (that's what I have on my other car because I couldn't find a flanged pipe to fit a Garrett G series a few years ago and it's on my todo list to redo one day), but I like the oem design of using a hard pipe close to hot parts then they switch to rubber lines, so that's what I'm going to try to do. The center section doesn't get super hot itself, but when you wrap things in heatshielding/etc there will be more localized heat. For the oil feed a -3 or -4 braided line is what I'll run since a hard line would be hard to fabricate.

If anyone has thoughts or suggestions for the turbo install/etc I would appreciate it. I have stage 8 locking hardware for the turbo->manifold and turbo->kraken downpipe but I'm not sure about the manifold studs.. The OEM studs are inconel I believe so no need to change them out? Also I was contemplating some locking hardware or even safety wiring the manifold nuts with tangential drilled nuts (this is not something I've done before but sure seems like a best practice) so if anyone has suggestions I'm all ears and open to suggestions.

Congrats on the first start with the BMM! I feel you, sometimes when my car is feeling good, I just want to enjoy it instead of messing with stuff. That's not often, so it makes those times all that much more special haha.

I'm running the same setup as you will be. Top mount 2560, no AC/PS. I bent the end of my mixing manifold to heater core pipe a little straighter for clearance and to keep it a little further away from the manifold. Using the stock mixing manifold no problem. I'm running rubber coolant supply and return hoses to the turbo that I told myself I was going to replace every year (I've never replaced them and it's been 18 months and 15 track days. Thanks for the reminder). I'm running a DIY heatshield between the turbo and firewall made out of 22ga steel and a layer of aluminum/fiberglass heat shielding facing the turbo. This stuff:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...03497c2ea7.jpg


Stage 8 hardware is almost absolutely necessary. I had to tighten my stock manifold and elbow nuts after almost every track session and that got old real quick. There was another recent thread where a user recommended cross-drilled titanium nuts with safety wire. That seems even cooler. Haven't had any firsthand experience with it, though.

Did you buy the complete Kraken kit with oil and water lines? Mine came with a -4 kit for the oil supply line and adapters for an NA or NB setup.

You may be able to improve reliability here by giving the turbo some support that isn't tied to the exhaust manifold studs.

OGK - Page 5 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

As Emilio notes, lots of OEM cars are out there pushing boost without such exotic hardware backing out, and they usually involve a support system designed to hold the weight of a turbo from the start.

Thanks I appreciate that link and good info. A turbo brace is something I hadn't planned on but seems like a good idea. I've certainly wondered how many OEM cars seem to stand up fine to repeated heat cycling/etc w/o issues of fasteners backing out and it certainly would make sense that excess harmonics/vibrations/movement is the culprit. I'd swear my brother's old 4g63 didn't have an oem turbo brace, but I'm sure they had a bracket supporting the cast downpipe piece. I will definitely look into adding a brace for this setup and with a/c and p/s out it shouldn't be too difficult. At a minimum a brace for the downpipe seems like a must as there is just way too much floating mass away from the exhaust manifold.

Thanks that's good to know the stock water pipe will clear fine, I'll try to bend it a bit also. I think rubber coolant lines are fine and should last a good number of years. I'm going to run a short section of metal pipe to rubber hose that way the rubber hose isn't exposed to extreme temps. This is how oem's do it and it should be fine. Regarding heatshielding yes I will figure that out after it's all installed. I will use a combination of the sheetmetal and that embossed metal stuff. Hopefully it won't be too bad but it came out very nice on my honda. I just took my time with the CAD (cardboard aided design) and I had a Korean neighbor who's a whizz with sheetmetal and a brake (he does lots of exterior capping with trim coil) make me the sheetmetal pieces once I had the cardboard mock ups done.

I didn't buy the Kraken hw kit, I'll just buy the stuff separately. I'm ---- and prefer doing it how I like so figured no point. I will seriously look into OptionXII's point about manifold bracing. Also, I'm not sure if the Kraken downpipe has an actual brace on it, if it doesn't I'll definitely add one.

Ooh, good point. Another bit that's fallen to the wayside on my build. Thanks for posting the link.

I haven't had any issues with hardware backing out since the Stage 8 nuts were installed but I gotta imagine a brace probably would've prevented the crack in my manifold that formed earlier this year. 17psi on 91 octane and late timing for track use probably created suboptimal EGTs too, though. Once I swap to an EFR turbo I think I'll copy their turnbuckle-style brace.

The downpipe doesn't come with any bracing. Another good point there.

Are you using locking nuts for the nuts that secure the manifold to the head? I think a brace for the downpipe is definitely a good idea regardless being so far away from the engine. It's interesting I was looking into turbo bracing some more and while it is more common these days on OEM cars, it's not ALWAYS done.

I asked an old friend about manifold bracing (he worked as an engineer for garrett). He was saying the Evo 8/9 didn't use a manifold brace (but the oem manifold did develop cracks sometimes) and later the Evo X added a brace to the turbine housing. I'd swear on my brother's old 95 GSX eclipse (my memory is foggy as it was >20yrs ago, 4g63 similar to EVOs) it did not have a brace. The OEM log style manifolds usually are not cantilevered far off the engine though and are quite thick, so clearly they are designed to hold the weight. Also softer mounts likely decrease vibrations over hard rubber/poly/solid mounts used more in the aftermarket. Apparently the 992 Carrera doesn't not use manifold bracing but has beefy cast log manifolds, whereas many other porsches do use braces. So.. where does that leave us on the Miata? Hard to say.. I guess I'll install the Kraken kit and go from there. From pictures the top mount manifold looks to hang the turbo farther off the block (which increases weight/force on the manifold studs) so perhaps a brace is in order. I'm sure OEMs do tests on resonant frequencies and vibrations that isn't really feasible for low volume aftermarket stuff.

I have locking nuts on my manifold to turbo connection and my turbo to elbow connection. Stock nuts and studs on the head to manifold connection and haven't ever had an issue with them backing out or breaking.

Funny enough, I haven't seen a lot of buzz on here regarding turbo and downpipe bracing aside from Emilio's post, although maybe I just haven't delved deep into enough build threads. Obviously, running a brace is a good idea regardless.

On the same train of thought as above, most current 4-cylinder turbo Fords currently run downpipe braces, even with tiny turbos and integrated exhaust manifolds that hold the turbo close to the head. Guess the market for braces on our cars is too small for anyone to make a profitable bolt on solution for...

Thanks man that's good to know. I'd swear I read a couple incidents of the nuts on the head to manifold coming loose a bit (I thought Beavis mentioned it) as well as a couple other people, but it doesn't seem like as nearly a common occurrence, like maybe check every several track weekends vs every day sort of thing. I'm running some nordlock washers on my Honda and haven't had the manifold->head nuts come loose either but these days it doesn't see the stress of track days so it's not a good comparison. A track car with the extreme heat/vibration sees a lot more stress.

I think the reason is it really depends on the application and honestly a brace isn't "necessary" for many applications, at least for the turbo. Some OEMs don't use braces on the turbo, and aftermarket stuff usually fulfills the minimum requirements (things barely fit sometimes). I do think downpipe bracing is a must and I've never seen an oem downpipe (after the turbo) that doesn't have a bracket to mount it/brace it. The lack of a bracket to secure the downpipe is just laziness/cost savings on the part of fabricators. On the note of OEMs, I think many current OEM turbo setups have the cat close to the turbo as well which adds a bunch of weight so that's one thing that might necessitate bracing. Going back to aftermarket turbo setups.. the reality is that most people don't track their cars, especially with aftermarket turbo setups. It's usually more straight line fun/etc which puts much less stress on the components so that's why most kits don't bother with a brace or even heatshielding. Most of these cars are weekend cars. Most aftermarket forced induction setups don't even include a simple heatshield much less a brace, downpipe brace, etc.

Some of the Japanese mfrs like greddy/hks make some nicer stuff, but even then their stuff isn't perfect. Regarding the market for braces.. for sure the market is simply too damn small. If you find someone who really cares about a brace, they probably have the means/desire to make one. With so many different combination of manifolds/turbos/other accessories it really isn't feasible to make an off the shelf solution that fits a wide variety of applications, imo. Maybe I'll have to borrow my friend's mig welder to make some brackets. That's something I have very little skill in, metal fabrication. I've welded some metal brackets before but it takes a whole lot of time. Good thing is this is something that wouldn't be too hard to add later on.