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Efini~FC3S 03-21-2014 05:12 PM

I still have the original 83mm "DNJ" rings if you want them. I believe they are chromoly.

You can haz for super cheap if you want them.

emilio700 03-28-2014 10:24 PM

I suggested the XX rings to Andrew a while back. He tried and I guess he liked. Pretty sure NPR Japan makes the XX rings also. The standard NPR rings that ship with Supertech pistons are much lower tension than OEM. The XX's are just slightly below OEM tension. We find the XX's don't burn any oil even if you get the install slightly wrong. The NPR's allow for slightly lower oil temps, maybe a teeny bit more power but will burn a tiny bit of oil even when installed perfect. Get the hone or break in wrong and they'll burn more oil.

We felt the tiny gain in power and lower oil temps wasn't worth it and switched to the XX for every motor we build. Nothing wrong with the standard NPR's, particularly for sprint and drag racing which is ST's target customer. For the endurance racing team (us) and guy that daily drives and HPDE or occasional autocrosser, we think the XX is a better choice.

Efini~FC3S 04-02-2014 12:00 AM

I CAN HAZ TIME TO WORK ON MOTOR???
 
28 Attachment(s)
Ok, back from "Spring Break" and finally got some hours to work on continuing the assembly of this motor.

First step was to check the ring gap on my new, super sweet, super low tension, SUPERTECH piston rings.


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1396411232

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1396411232

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1396411232


Most of the top rings came out of the box at about 0.001" but needed to be more like 0.0018", the 2nd rings came out about 0.0014" but were supposed to be 0.0020". At least according to my maths and ST's recommendation.

I borrowed the world's worst ring filer and went to work. And it sucked. The filer was...the worst, and the process is generally miserable. Clean, oil, check clearance, grind a bit, check grind, clean, oil ring, check clearance, repeat a thousand times.

The ring filer I was using probably made the job two to three times worse than it needed to be, but it was borrowed so...

I got bored of filing piston rings so I decided to check the rod bearing clearance.


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1396411232

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1396411232

Looks like it is somewhere between 0.0015" and 0.0020", but closer to 0.0015". Great, within the OEM spec.


I decided to do the ring filing and assembly one cylinder at a time so I could feel like I was actually accomplishing something, and not get bored with awful, awful ring filing.

Here's cylinder 1 piston/rod assembly ready for install. The piston ring compressor I bought is generally terrible, I would not recommend it. I learned how to use it better after cylinder one, ie don't do it like it's pictured, have the ring compressor go all they way to the bottom of the skirt.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1396411232

As you can see I was enjoying some Yuengling Light lager whilst performing this work. This is a no-no, never consume alcoholic beverages whilst performing very delicate, precise work like engine assembly.

At the end of last night I was 1/2 done.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1396411232


This morning and this evening I was able to finish cylinders three and four.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1396411232

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1396411232

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1396411232


The next step is to install the rear cover with oil seal, reinstall the oil pan and stuffs, etc. etc.

Well all of that stuff is incredibly dirty so I went to work making a bath for those parts. I happened to have a plastic storage container that just was the right size for putting an oil pan and other parts in it, so I filled it with hot water and Purple Power and started scrubbing.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1396411232

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1396411232


Here is the oil pan hiding in it's bath...

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1396411232


The pan is currently soaking. I'm not Jeffbucc, so I generally hate this part. I would rather assemble engine then clean engine.

I should probably drill and tap the pan before installing it. I should probably also throw a lick of paint on it. Those with sharp eyes will have noticed that at some point I painted the block with some awful, boring, gray VHT engine paint. If you look closely enough you can see the quality of the paint job is extremely lacking, I had one TOO many Yuengling Light lagers that night, and it was probably 45F in my garage. Better than rusting though...


So, since the engine is waiting for ancillary parts to be cleaned, it's all wrapped up and ready for bed.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1396411232


A WORD ABOUT PISTON RING FILING - For Fireindc

Any "instructions" or "guides" to ring filing will warn you to take your time, and slowly and cautiously file small amounts of material off of the rings. DO THAT. I got a little impatient and over did it on a couple of my 2nd rings (cylinders 2 and 4), and maybe one of the top rings. YOU CAN'T ADD MATERIAL, only REMOVE. So yea, have patience, use a decent ring filer, and go slow. My target 2nd ring gaps were ~ 0.0020", and two of mine ended up about 0.0024". Four ten thousandths may not be much in the long run, but the gap is ~20% bigger than it "should" be. What will the actual affect be on the motor, probably not much, maybe just some minor increase in oil consumption on cylinders 2 and 4.

Either way, take it slow and easy on the ring filing, even if it sucks.

A WORD ABOUT PHOTOGRAPHY

In my first post in this thread I may have made some "promise" that I was going to be using my wifes DSLR for taking pictures. Well, I haven't. I've been taking most of them with an iPhone, and I apologize now for the shitty, cell phone, poorly lit pictures I've been plastering all over this thread. The fact of the matter is, getting out the DSLR and transferring the pictures and editing them, etc. etc., would add significant time to this process. I have precious little time. Also, please forgive me for the white cardboard box on the floor under the engine, I should probably move that.

Please forgive me for the poopy quality pics...

18psi 04-02-2014 12:02 AM

you used a regular file on the rings? not one of those special ring filer things?
I ask because everyone makes a big deal about not using a regular file due to possibility of filing at an angle and then having the ring gap uneven.

Leafy 04-02-2014 12:05 AM

Wait, they make yunglign light? I mean, the normal one already tastes light light beer without the aftertaste, what does the light taste like? Natty light without the aftertaste?

Fireindc 04-02-2014 01:03 AM

Holy shit thanks for the detailed pictures of everything. We all appreciate it :)


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 1117378)
you used a regular file on the rings? not one of those special ring filer things?
I ask because everyone makes a big deal about not using a regular file due to possibility of filing at an angle and then having the ring gap uneven.

A regular file "should" be fine if you get the angle right, but i agree and that is also the next tool I'm going to buy.

Any idea of what a "good" one is to get?

Efini~FC3S 04-02-2014 10:08 AM


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 1117378)
you used a regular file on the rings? not one of those special ring filer things?
I ask because everyone makes a big deal about not using a regular file due to possibility of filing at an angle and then having the ring gap uneven.

No, I used a "proper" ring filer

like this --->
But 1000x worse. It's almost like the one I was using had been dropped a few dozen times, and the grinding wheel was all wobbly and awful. It made it very difficult to get an even grind on it.

I seriously doubt all of my ring gaps are perfectly even, but most of them were pretty good...


Originally Posted by Leafy (Post 1117381)
Wait, they make yunglign light? I mean, the normal one already tastes light light beer without the aftertaste, what does the light taste like? Natty light without the aftertaste?

Yes, they make Yuengling Light

Yes, it's very "drinkable".



Originally Posted by Fireindc (Post 1117395)
Holy shit thanks for the detailed pictures of everything. We all appreciate it :)



A regular file "should" be fine if you get the angle right, but i agree and that is also the next tool I'm going to buy.

Any idea of what a "good" one is to get?

I don't know what is a "good" one, but the Amazon one I posted above seriously looks 1000x better than the one I used...

Actually the one I used looks more like this --> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-906795/overview/

but with a wobbly grinding wheel.

18psi 04-02-2014 10:15 AM

ahh ok that sounds better.

and yes that amazon one would be the one I'd get

Efini~FC3S 04-03-2014 11:24 AM

One time I read (maybe on this website) the best thing you can do for a project car is to work on it every day, even if only for 15 or 20 minutes.

So last night I got a few spare minutes and put the rear main seal on. Hopefully I got it aligned correctly and it doesn't leak.

Hopefully

Tonight I plan to do the oil pump and maybe try to finish cleaning the oil pan.

Little by little

That is all

shuiend 04-03-2014 11:31 AM


Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S (Post 1117965)
One time I read (maybe on this website) the best thing you can do for a project car is to work on it every day, even if only for 15 or 20 minutes

Keith Tanner says something very similar to that in his book on how to build a locost7. That may of been where you heard it if you have read that book.

Jeffbucc 04-03-2014 01:02 PM

It is really amazing how fast it gets done when you work on it every day. Stopping is the hard part though. I can't just leave whatever small project I'm doing unfinished. Or, by the time you look at the time, 3 hours have gone by.

Efini~FC3S 04-03-2014 01:20 PM

It gets even more difficult when you have a full time job, two kids, and wife who works full time, and you're trying to finish a bathroom remodel...

Not a lot of free time for d*cking around in the garage

Midtenn 04-03-2014 01:34 PM


Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S (Post 1117997)
It gets even more difficult when you have a full time job, two kids, and wife who works full time, and you're trying to finish a bathroom remodel...

Not a lot of free time for d*cking around in the garage

My wife made a comment to me last night, "I bet your glad I'm in school so you can spend time in the garage..." No kids at this time though.

krissetsfire 04-03-2014 01:50 PM

Soooo haha. I tried using regular files because that's all I had and I also had never rebuilt a motor. After getting nowhere on the first one and struggling I desperately called around and was unable to find anything. I was on the way home and stopped in a harbor freight... found these little gems 10 Piece Diamond Grit Needle File Set

Surprisingly they worked fantastically. They filed the rings down very quickly and quite cleanly. I only used one file specifically and it was a magical $8 spent.

I know not the best practice but it is what I did and so far so good.

Alejo_NIN 04-03-2014 03:34 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S (Post 1117377)
A WORD ABOUT PHOTOGRAPHY

In my first post in this thread I may have made some "promise" that I was going to be using my wifes DSLR for taking pictures. Well, I haven't. I've been taking most of them with an iPhone, and I apologize now for the shitty, cell phone, poorly lit pictures I've been plastering all over this thread. The fact of the matter is, getting out the DSLR and transferring the pictures and editing them, etc. etc., would add significant time to this process. I have precious little time. Also, please forgive me for the white cardboard box on the floor under the engine, I should probably move that.

Please forgive me for the poopy quality pics...

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1396553705
that's why i love my Nokia Lumia 1020
just look at this quality!
no ediiting...staright off the phone...
fuck an iphone! lol

greate build by the way.
many mistakes..but well..it is alla bout having fun, right?

TheProfessor 04-03-2014 05:24 PM


Originally Posted by Jeffbucc (Post 1117994)
It is really amazing how fast it gets done when you work on it every day. Stopping is the hard part though. I can't just leave whatever small project I'm doing unfinished. Or, by the time you look at the time, 3 hours have gone by.

This. Whenever I'm running low on progress I try to get one thing done a day, no matter how small. Its amazing how quickly things gets done.

Efini~FC3S 04-09-2014 07:44 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Well the plan to do at least one thing per day on the engine build hasn't been working. I've been too busy with kids and a bathroom remodel.

I did however, spend some time dyno'ing my POS DD today.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397087060

Cruddy cell phone picture of a cruddy old computer monitor, but you get the idea. No torque, that's the idea.

My daily is a 2000 Civic EX that I swapped an "ITS" prepped B16 into. I had been running an off-the-shelf Hondata "stock b16" tune, and apparently it was pretty close as I was only able to pick up ~5whp peak, and only a 2-4 throughout the rev range.

I did improve the A/F curve (not shown) but really the OTS Hondata tune was pretty good.

The crazy torque drop from 4600-5100 rpms might be because of an intake restriction, or I could have fubar'd the VTEC point. I kept meaning to do a run with the VTEC point up about 5200 rpms, but never did. On that graph, the VTEC point is set at like 3800 rpms, and the high lift lobe might not be any good until after 5000.

In the end it doesn't really matter because if you shift at 8200 rpm, you never drop below 5500 rpm.

Anyways, 160whp and near as makes no difference, zero torque.

(The dotted lines on the graph are not the "initial runs" but some in-between run. The "initial runs" were another ~2 whp about everywhere compared to the dotted lines).

The car needs some EV14s, and higher fp, and a better intake, and maybe an IM (to make power past 7500rpms), but it's my DD so who gives a poop.

Fireindc 04-09-2014 07:56 PM

Pics of honduh? I really love a b series car myself.

Efini~FC3S 04-09-2014 08:45 PM

It looks like a bone stock 2dr civic ex, stock ride height and all.

I don't know if I've even taken picture of it...

Efini~FC3S 04-11-2014 12:26 AM

8 Attachment(s)
So, still no time to work on the miata or the miata engine BUT...

The VTEC changeover point thingy was really bugging me so I went back and re-dyno'd the daily.

Here's the car since Fireindc is so interested

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397190374

engine gay (whoops, bay)

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397190374


And real dyno screen grabs, the two sets of lines show the first couple pulls I did with the OTS hondata b16 tune, and the final tune I am using. Unfortunately it's really difficult to read because all of the lines are dotted, and all of them are the same colors. Uh...yea

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397190374


So I excel'd the data outputs from Dynapack to make that sh*t moah readable. Green is the final tune on the car, with the VTEC point set at 5200rpm. Red is one of the earlier runs, mostly OTS Hondata b16 tune with a 3800rpm VTEC switch-over. Solid lines are the horsepowers, dotted is the (not) torquez.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397190374

TLDR: Moving the VTEC point up gave an increase of over 10wtq, and like 12-13 whp at ~4900rpm. 10wtq out of 90 is a LOT. I'm pretty sure this car has Type-R cams so that might explain why the high lift cam lobe is not so good under 5000rpms.

The car definitely pulls more "smoothly" now, if you do a run from 2500rpm - 8000+

Engine specs (AFAIK):

B16A2
0.040" overbore stock compression pistons
Civic Type R cams
Comptech Ice box intake w/ type R intake tube
Comptech Header
Ebay "Hi-po" catalyst
Ebay "Quiet" 2.5" exhaust
Ebay radiator
Hondata S300 ECU
some aftermarket FPR that isn't doing anything atm

other than that it is stocky stocky stock.

The Hondata says my injector duty cycle is 87% at peak power, so it seems some EV14s could go a long way on this car but, A: it's my daily, I dun care, and B: Access to free dyno is no more.

I need to do install one of my widebands and do some street tuning because my mpgs aren't so great, about 26-27ish. I'm pretty sure I should be seeing over 30 the way I drive, plus it's a 1.6!?!?!?!

So yea, no time to work on the miata, but 3+ hours spent dyno'ing my shit -a$$, crap, unimportant daily the last couple days...

18psi 04-11-2014 12:33 AM

kewl hawnduh bro

but yeah, I also learned the hard way on my many RSX-S's that uber lower vtaks switchover isn't always uber mad jdm tyte like some people want to think it is

that's a huge dip you got rid of, and gaining torque on a torqueless car is a big plus

Fireindc 04-11-2014 01:11 AM

Wow, i can't believe you found a stock 2 door in that condition. Did you build the car, or buy it with the b16 swap? That's a great daily if you live in the city, imho.

Efini~FC3S 04-11-2014 01:24 AM


Originally Posted by Fireindc (Post 1120533)
Wow, i can't believe you found a stock 2 door in that condition. Did you build the car, or buy it with the b16 swap? That's a great daily if you live in the city, imho.

BUILT

not BOUGHT

The car was an automatic EX, originally owned by American Honda as a manager "company" car. The guy I bought it from bought it from American Honda and he and his wife used it as a commuter for 10+ years. They aren't really car people but they took good enough care of it. It's been in Ohio it's whole life but it's surprisingly rust free (at least for a mid-west car).

Anyway, his daughter was using it as her college car and she kept ignoring the OIL PRESSURE light, figuring daddy would just get the oil changed the next time she was back home.

Long story short, rod went through block, I purchased car for cheap.

I bought the engine and trans from one of the race teams I work with. It has a Mugen Type-R diff, which is a bit obnoxious for a DD...


All in all I have less than $2000 in it, and I have a full H&R suspension, sway-bars, wheels, etc. etc. waiting in the corner of the garage for it.

It should be a pretty good track car / TT car all said and done, but for now it's my cruddy little DD (coming from Suby FXT goodness DD).

Honestly, it is a pretty good little daily even if my wife loathes it. This is the first proper VTEC powered car I've owned even though I've worked for Honda R&D for almost six years. That said, I'm not a huge old skool Honda fanboi. The car does sing pretty good above 6000rpms though, I guess I can see the appeal 10+ years ago...

Long term plan is probably to sell it to some silly Honda fanboi and make $$$ off of it...

Efini~FC3S 05-22-2014 01:08 PM

Don't worry, I'm still alive.

Since posting last I quit my job, got a new job, moved to North Carolina, sold a house, bought a house, etc etc.

Miata project has been put on hold for life events...

Efini~FC3S 05-27-2014 12:52 PM

So "not an update" update forthcoming.

I close on the sale of my house in Ohio this Friday. Movers and the moving truck are coming Thursday to load all my sh?t up and take it to storage. I close on my new (to me) house in Waxhaw, NC on June 26th. I'll be in temporary corporate housing (ie no garage) until then.

Miata engine build was unfortunately interrupted by moving cross country. All of the old and new engine parts were haphazardly packed in two or three different boxes so I'm sure finding all that stuff when I'm ready for it is going to frustrating.

On a good note, the new house has a much bigger garage and there's a perfect spot on the property for a 30'x30' or 30'x40' shop. Yay! :-)

Also, since Union county NC is lame, I now have to have my cars emissions tested. That is completely alien to me. Pre-obd II cars do not have to be tested/inspected so I might just sell my 96 and look for a 94-95 instead. I never really liked the car anyway. Problem is it has a dented door, dented fender, suspect head gasket amongst other issues. I wonder how much $$$ I'd be losing by selling it as is...

Efini~FC3S 07-21-2014 10:01 AM

Final (maybe) not update UPDATE:

I'm very close to being ready to begin work on the motor again. I'm still in the process of cleaning, organizing and unpacking my garage after moving. The garage is getting better every day but it's still pretty cluttered and there is still a few boxes to unpack.

On July 29th some South Carolina hilljacks are coming to build me a shed which will greatly improve the working conditions in the garage. Currently there are two lawn mowers, two 50cc pit bikes, and about 30 wheels and tires taking up precious floor space in the garage. After the shed is constructed I can move those items and have aproper space to work on cars and motors and such.

So, worst case I should be able to get some work done by Aug. 4th, which would mean moving from Ohio to North Carolina only caused a 4 month delay...

Fireindc 07-21-2014 11:45 AM

Nice man, my engine build has been on hold as well. Burnt myself out working on cars and giving it a break, doing a lot of mountain biking instead.

Looking back through the last page of your build makes me want to get out to the garage though, so soon...

Efini~FC3S 08-13-2014 12:52 PM

So I finally unwrapped the engine last night to continue on this disaster. I went to install the oil pump and naturally I didn't have the necessary o-ring to install.

:facepalm:

So I ordered two. One from Rosenthal, and one of the viton 4 piece kits from Miataroadster. We'll see which one gets here first, I'm betting on Rosenthal...

Anyway, it's really frustrating when a $2 part delays your build.

No pictures of this fael parade, but how about a few of the tire/wheel rack I built on my new shed? As of right now I have ~30 wheels and tires so finding room for them all is a challenge. Because racecars

Doh...NM uploading from phone isn't working, I'll post some later.

shuiend 08-13-2014 01:18 PM

Luke what manifold and downpipe are you going with for the EFR?

Efini~FC3S 08-13-2014 01:53 PM

If and when I finally get the EFR installed it will be with my homemade log manifold and I'll build a down pipe for it.

There's a picture of the manifold in the first post of this thread

shuiend 08-13-2014 02:05 PM

I will get in contact with you later about the setup, I might have a better option in the near future for you.

Efini~FC3S 08-18-2014 10:35 PM

7 Attachment(s)
Ok long overdue pictures of my shed project.

Building a tire rack in my 8x12 shed because I have TOO MUCH STUFF! Total cost was about $10 in wood and maybe $2-3 in screws.


Shed started out like this:
Attachment 239059



And then I added some 2x3s
Attachment 239060
Attachment 239061


And then a few more 2x3s
Attachment 239062


And then put ~9 225 tires on the rack
Attachment 239063


And then repacked the shed full of TOO MUCH STUFF
Attachment 239064



And then I spend entirely too much time working on my POS stupid awful Troy Bilt Pony craptard lawnmower...

Junior mechanic hard at work trying to figure out Troy Bilt's "Engineering"
Attachment 239065

Efini~FC3S 08-18-2014 10:38 PM

2 Attachment(s)
So the above post actually took place a week ago or so.

Tonight

PROGRESS

though not much.

Finally, after 4+ months I did some work on the engine.

Installed the oil pump.

Attachment 239057

Attachment 239058


Wanted to install the oil pan too but it still needs a good washing which was going to take too long...

Hopefully the next delay is shorter than 4 months.

Jeffbucc 08-18-2014 11:22 PM

My god that engine is so clean and perfect...I had an OCD boner...until I saw the bolts!:crx:

:giggle: Seriously good work though man, anytime spent doing a little work is a little less time you have to do in the future. No rush, no hurry.

Leafy 08-18-2014 11:26 PM


Originally Posted by Jeffbucc (Post 1158727)
My god that engine is so clean and perfect...I had an OCD boner...until I saw the bolts!:crx:

:giggle: Seriously good work though man, anytime spent doing a little work is a little less time you have to do in the future. No rush, no hurry.

Clean? Do you see that sloppy ass masking job he did on the oil filter boss?! :p Got to get all that point off that machined surface before you can put that stuff back on.

Jeffbucc 08-18-2014 11:30 PM

I mean, general overall cleanliness. He will obviously clean that up right!

(I honestly didn't notice that at all...)

Efini~FC3S 08-19-2014 08:47 AM

Well if Jeff thinks it's clean, who am I to argue...

And yes I did a not so great job of masking some of the surfaces when painting the block.

Unfortunately, I have neither the time nor patience to clean all the bolts, so the engine will mostly go back together with cruddy looking hardware. I'm not badass enough to send out all the bolts for professional re-plating

Efini~FC3S 08-23-2014 10:10 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Dirty oil pan installed, sorry Jeff. Actually, it looks dirty, but I've cleaned this darn thing inside and out about four times. I was thinking I might paint it but, meh, paint on raw aluminum casting is...?

Also, while installing the oil pan I managed to explode my tube of Hondabond...which makes me very sad. I love me some Hondabond and now I have none. :vash:

Attachment 239035

Attachment 239036


Those of you with sharp eyes will notice I cleaned up some paint overspray on some of the sealing services. Thank you Leafy for pointing it out!


All wrapped up for the night (these were taken a couple nights ago).

Attachment 239037



I'm going to install the water pump now, and hopefully get some time later today to work on installing the head. Going to be re-using stock head bolts and shooting for 300+ whp. I will be the guinea pig :fael:

Little by little, we're getting closer to having a buttoned up engine.

Jeffbucc 08-23-2014 01:20 PM

Dude it took me forever to clean/wire wheel the oil pan. Given the choice I'd just clean the oil off it any put it on as you did. Truly was a bitch to make look pretty.

Leafy 08-23-2014 04:13 PM

Arent stock head bolts single use only and thats why we all just end up with ARP studs?

18psi 08-23-2014 04:17 PM

They can be re-used if he measures stretch and confirms they're good.

Which he probably wont.

shuiend 08-23-2014 08:12 PM


Originally Posted by Leafy (Post 1160327)
Arent stock head bolts single use only and thats why we all just end up with ARP studs?

I have no clue if they are supposed to be single use or not, but I have reused stock head bolts without measuring anything on them on dozens of Miata's with and without boost and I have never had an issue.

Efini~FC3S 08-23-2014 10:21 PM

6 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Leafy (Post 1160327)
Arent stock head bolts single use only and thats why we all just end up with ARP studs?

The factory service manual does not say they have to be replaced, so deduction logic says they CAN be reused. The FSM is very specific about what should be replaced, there is very clearly a large "R" on all of the part diagrams for the parts that should be replaced. The cylinder head bolts have to "R" next to them, and there is no mention of replacing them anywhere in the manual that I could find (or mention of measuring them for that matter). I think the reason everyone uses ARP is because, A: They is scerred to reuse head bolts and B: ARP head studs are basically the same price as new OEM bolts so why not?


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 1160328)
They can be re-used if he measures stretch and confirms they're good.

Which he probably wont.

Get out of my head!!!!



SO...I got some time to install the head. Re-used the OEM head bolts. All gaskets including the headgasket are from the "DNJ" Rock Auto engine gasket kit I bought. Hopefully the non-OEM, cheapy headgasket can take ~300whp.

Pictures...because why not take up internet bandwidth to post pictures of stuff people have seen hundreds of times before?


Cylinder head AS-RECEIVED from the machine shop so many moons agoAttachment 239027



Even though the head was hot-tanked, it wasn't 100% squeaky clean so I took some brake cleaner to it. Here's a top view of the head, after some quick cleaning.Attachment 239028



Here's the bottom of the head. Compare to pictures early in this thread, much improved to the pleasure of 18psi I hope.Attachment 239029



The aforementioned OEM (ZOMFG!?!?!?!) head bolts, ready for cleaning and install.Attachment 239030



Head installed and torqued down. A note about numbering: I numbered the bolts during disassembly. The numbers correspond to the "loosening pattern" shown in the FSM. So they are the opposite of the "tightening pattern".Attachment 239031



Where I stopped this evening. My garage needs cleaning...:sad2:Attachment 239032



I wrote some huge, long, very insightful, hopefully informative diatribe about my logic for re-using the OEM head bolts. In an exceptionally cruel mis-hap of the "forwards" and "backwards" buttons on the side of my STUPID FRIGGEN *#(&* MOUSE it is lost.

The moral of the diatribe was that I worked for a long time at Honda R&D on engine fasteners, and if Mazda's OEM fastener quality is anywhere near what Honda's is/was, then I think they'll be OK.

:vash::vash::vash::vash:

Hopefully I'll either prove that not using ARP head-studs is a terrible idea, or re-using stock OEM headbolts is totally OK if you're on a budget. Hope...lolz

hi_im_sean 08-23-2014 11:02 PM


Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S (Post 1160389)
The factory service manual does not say they have to be replaced, so deduction logic says they CAN be reused. The FSM is very specific about what should be replaced, there is very clearly a large "R" on all of the part diagrams for the parts that should be replaced. The cylinder head bolts have to "R" next to them, and there is no mention of replacing them anywhere in the manual that I could find (or mention of measuring them for that matter). I think the reason everyone uses ARP is because, A: They is scerred to reuse head bolts and B: ARP head studs are basically the same price as new OEM bolts so why not?



Get out of my head!!!!



SO...I got some time to install the head. Re-used the OEM head bolts. All gaskets including the headgasket are from the "DNJ" Rock Auto engine gasket kit I bought. Hopefully the non-OEM, cheapy headgasket can take ~300whp.

Pictures...because why not take up internet bandwidth to post pictures of stuff people have seen hundreds of times before?


Cylinder head AS-RECEIVED from the machine shop so many moons agohttps://i.imgur.com/9zfa6EE.jpg



Even though the head was hot-tanked, it wasn't 100% squeaky clean so I took some brake cleaner to it. Here's a top view of the head, after some quick cleaning.https://i.imgur.com/fAuZTgB.jpg



Here's the bottom of the head. Compare to pictures early in this thread, much improved to the pleasure of 18psi I hope.https://i.imgur.com/l43gMN4.jpg



The aforementioned OEM (ZOMFG!?!?!?!) head bolts, ready for cleaning and install.https://i.imgur.com/080895q.jpg



Head installed and torqued down. A note about numbering: I numbered the bolts during disassembly. The numbers correspond to the "loosening pattern" shown in the FSM. So they are the opposite of the "tightening pattern".https://i.imgur.com/H11dxwg.jpg



Where I stopped this evening. My garage needs cleaning...:sad2:https://i.imgur.com/I69GaXT.jpg



I wrote some huge, long, very insightful, hopefully informative diatribe about my logic for re-using the OEM head bolts. In an exceptionally cruel mis-hap of the "forwards" and "backwards" buttons on the side of my STUPID FRIGGEN *#(&* MOUSE it is lost.

The morale of the diatribe was that I worked for a long time at Honda R&D on engine fasteners, and if Mazda's OEM fastener quality is anywhere near what Honda's is/was, then I think they'll be OK.

:vash::vash::vash::vash:

Hopefully I'll either prove that not using ARP head-studs is a terrible idea, or re-using stock OEM headbolts is totally OK if you're on a budget. Hope...lolz


i really hate those buttons on my mouse. i have experienced similar loss of data that way. they might get disabled in the near future.

your garage doesnt look half as bad as mine. nice choice on engine paint.

hows the motorcycle fund going?

Alejo_NIN 08-25-2014 11:40 AM

it is refreshing to see someone who thinks logically instea dof "throw money at a problem and it'll fix itself"
i can def see why you used the same bolts...they almost never stretch unless you go ape shit on the torquing.
DNJ makes great quality stuff, i used it on my miata and my srt-4 builds with amazing results.

keep it up man...cna't wait to see it running

Efini~FC3S 08-25-2014 01:06 PM


Originally Posted by hi_im_sean (Post 1160399)
hows the motorcycle fund going?

Lolz, I was wondering if anyone was going to notice that. I think that piggy bank stopped being a "motorcycle" fund about 2010. I should cross out motorcycle and probably put "race car" or something...

18psi 08-25-2014 01:33 PM


Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S (Post 1160389)
Compare to pictures early in this thread, much improved to the pleasure of 18psi I hope.

I love it when you pleasure me:giggle:

What did you paint block with?

Efini~FC3S 08-25-2014 09:16 PM


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 1160849)
What did you paint block with?

Whatever engine paint crap they sell at Autozone.

I don't remember the exact brand or color, I bought it so long ago. I might have it around somewhere, I'll try to remember to check for it.

Efini~FC3S 08-25-2014 10:06 PM

7 Attachment(s)
So I got an okay amount of work done on Sunday, a little more than I had hoped actually.

Head is mostly assembled. Valve cover needs the baffles reinstalled. I shot blasted the valve cover which turned out to be a bigger headache than benefit. I had to remove all the baffles and plates to really clean it to get all of the media out. Pain in the arse.


Next step after bolting the head down was installing the M-tuned reroute.
Attachment 239007



As you can see, I painted the valve cover. I picked the closest thing they had to pink at Autozone/Advance
Attachment 239008



Head assembly continued
Attachment 239009


Attachment 239010


Attachment 239011


A preview of the finished product
Attachment 239012


Attachment 239013




I'm not 100% if I want the coolant neck on the front of the motor or if I'm going to try to source a freeze plug and seal it off. It seems like the ports on the m-tuned cover might come in handy?

What do most people do with the M-tuned reroute? Freeze plug or run the block-off plate and use the ports?


Next up is to finish cleaning up the valve cover and get it 100% put back together. Then timing stuff, ancillaries, intake manifold, etc. etc. etc.

Efini~FC3S 08-26-2014 03:48 PM

Triple Post?!?

No comments on my "color" choice for the valve cover?


Also, as asked above, what are people usually doing with the front coolant neck after re-route? Are the ports useful or are the mostly for show. Can turbo water line return go the the front block off plate (even though it's not adiabatically ideal nor uphill???)? Or should I take the time to freeze plug that sh*t?

:-/

Leafy 08-26-2014 04:08 PM

The front spot can be used to feed the turbo with the water pump inlet being the return. Then once the car is off direction of flow would probably reverse and it would be ok. I just find it easier to pull the turbo water off the reroute spacer.

hornetball 08-26-2014 04:22 PM

I block off the front water outlet. That point could be useful as turbo water line feed. The turbo water line return must go to the mixing manifold. These are the high pressure and low pressure points from the pump.

I had extremely bad luck with the DNJ gaskets from the standpoint of cam and rear main seals. Both cam seals leaked right away. The rear main seal leaked after about a month. I would definitely do OEM on those. On my last engine build, rebuilder wanted to use DNJ and I refused and provided him with Mazda OEM using my Mazdaspeed discount. Absolutely no issues.

Head bolts can be reused -- they're nowhere close to TTY as long as torqued to factory specs. However, on my Silver car, I blew 2 head gaskets. That was a 1.6 with a composite head gasket, so different animal. But I always do MLS and ARP studs now. A nut on a stud will provide a more consistent clamping force vs. torque than a bolt -- unless the bolt hole threads are absolutely perfect/clean/lubed.

YMMV.

Efini~FC3S 09-03-2014 06:09 PM

LET'S PLAY PRETEND
 
3 Attachment(s)
Pretend you are a sad sack of uselessness and this is your life:

Attachment 238963

Attachment 238964

Attachment 238965




How would you improve your life?

rhysmate 09-03-2014 07:01 PM

Thanks for documenting this so well. This thread is going to be invaluable to me in the coming months. Thanks! Awesome work

Efini~FC3S 09-04-2014 08:48 AM

Any ideas on how to fix the disaster pictured above? I'm at a bit of a loss.

It's hard to see in the pictures, but the crank key is broken off and stuck in the key way.

F

A

E

L

shuiend 09-04-2014 10:21 AM


Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S (Post 1163866)
Any ideas on how to fix the disaster pictured above? I'm at a bit of a loss.

It's hard to see in the pictures, but the crank key is broken off and stuck in the key way.

F

A

E

L

Get a pry bar behind the pulley and slowly wobble it off would be my best suggestion.

Efini~FC3S 09-04-2014 12:46 PM

I was leery of prying around the oil pump housing and water pump housing for fear of breaking some hpdc Aluminium piece. I'll try to gently wiggle it off tonight but the key seems pretty lodged in there

Ughhh

Leafy 09-04-2014 12:48 PM

Vice grips on the key?

Otherwise see if you can pry only pressing on the bolt heads in the area.

18psi 09-04-2014 01:18 PM

tap it with a hammer really lightly. lube it up with something. with enough vibration and lube I think it will come out. (insert vibration/lube jokes here)

Efini~FC3S 09-04-2014 01:22 PM


Originally Posted by Leafy (Post 1163972)
Vice grips on the key?

That's how we arrived at this conundrum. There isn't enough material sticking out to grab onto, at least not anymore...


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