MSM project nearing completion
 

I have been waiting to start a build thread but going has been slow over the last year
Car is an 05 MSM. In fashion typical for me I bought this as a car for my wife and then the bug hit and has gone much further than I intended
Car was originally intended strictly as a street car but now I feel it moving toward a more track oriented machine
2005 VR MSM
built engine
ARP head studs and main studs
supertech pistons 8.6CR
949 rods
ACL race bearings
boundary engineering oil pump w/billet gears
ATI super damper
Maruha oil pan baffle
M tuned coolant reroute
Koyo radiator
Ported head
supertech oversize valves
supertech valve springs and Ti retainers
shim under bucket conversion
Integral cams 272/272
Blox intake manifold grafted to BP flange
Blox 67mm throttle body, honda IAC
ID1000 injectors
Flyin miata fuel rail
Walbro 255
Hydra out being upgraded to ver 2.7(hopefully it will help with the injector latencies and the terrible cold start)
Absurdflow Vband manifold(coated) and downpipe
Enthuza 3" exhaust
GT3071, Tial MVS external wastegate
Flyin miata intercooler
FM frame rails
AFCO coilovers
FM swaybars with upgraded mounts and FM endlinks
V8R control arms
door bars
frog arms
Hard dog roll bar
3.63 gears
OS Giken LSD
Beatrush PPF brace
6ULs 15x9 with 225 RS3s
Wilwood dynalites two piece rotors front,sport brakes two piece rotors rear, stainless lines
Gauges Boost/oil pressure/oil temp/water temp/EGT
Nielex short shifter
949 racing twin disc(organic) clutch
Mazda competition motor mounts(I have some MMRs but chickened out)
Solid differential mounts from FM

I can't decide which direction I am going to go with the car at time strett car or track rat.
I will be getting the Trackspeed 11.75 inch rotor upgrade and I hope to add the trackspeed NB radiator when available
I have concerns about the size of the intercooler and am looking for a tube and fin unit that is larger.
It needs better seats, and if I go the track route a hardtop, front and rear aero, air oil separator(crawford maybe or maybe homebrew) and an accusump
Anyway I am waiting for the Hydra to come back, the tune will be finished and I'll post the dyno results. I have yet to decide if I will have them shim the oil pump for more pressure
Forgot I have some race coils from Diyautotune that I will install with the hydra
Attachment 191737
[IMG]http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/t...M/IMG_0020.jpg[/IMG]
Attachment 191738
Attachment 191739
Attachment 191740

b-e-a-u-t-i-f-u-l.

Dear lord your undercarriage looks bomb proof. Very nice build, did I miss your power goals?

Hmm, I had hoped to make 350whp on pump when I started. I think at 8k with e85 it should make 400whp but I really have no experience with cams in this size of a motor. I like the idea of e85 but the only stations around here(I live near forest heights in NW) are so far away it makes it a pain.
The initial tune will probably be pretty conservative as I have to learn to drive this thing. I did this all ass backwards putting all this stuff on first, but I didnt have much time to play this last year with a new baby and so I got really carried away. I have a line on a NB miata with a cage and coilovers but no power adders that I may pickup as a learning instrument.

I keep scrolling up and down the original post. Wow, I'm in love. Awesome build!

I want those control arms so bad! :drool:

Wow, that is just beastly. Must be fun to drive. Did you find the FM frame rails made a big difference?

Wow. I like.

Sex!
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^^^YUCK^^^

I really like this car. The V-band setup looks awesome.

What a car!

Dems a lot of braces.

I'd love to tighten up my NA and I've been weighing whether to throw braces at, however, part of me thinks it would be better to just have a partial cage welded in (e.g. - rear hoop/roll bar with door bars and some sort of 'boxing' up front, essentially a full cage minus the upper bars so I can drive the car on the street without smashoring my head).

Have you had a chance to drive a caged car to compare? I'd even be curious to see your opinion on what braces seemed to be worth the $$$. I've heard really good things about the Boss Frog arms but I've yet to drive a car with them - the nose of my car becomes really unsettled over uneven pavement.

Anyways, not trying to detract from your build - it's fucking tits :drool:

Wow, beautiful build, in for numbers and video!!

And more pics please!

Nice job sir. Post numbers up as soon as you get them!

Oh wow, I didn't even realize you're local. I work in SE and there's one on 99/mcloughlin right around Fred Meyers. And a bio-diesel station right by where I work. That doesn't help you, but I think it's cool to see those popping up. Do they have an e85 station map somewhere? That'd be helpful. I've thought about doing the same, but lack of large injectors and lack of filling stations are holding me back.

Ah, here ya go:
http://www.altfuelprices.com/station...egon/Portland/

Very Impressive. I am interested in what your rpm range will be with that cam.

I did not see cam gears in your list of parts. Something to consider if you want your peak power at a more conservative rpm. Big cam motors can be intimidating until you get use to it. Mistakes are not taken kindly.

I can not wait to see some results from this build. Congrats.

God damn that looks good. I'm happy with my car as a track car I can drive to work a couple days per week. Look for Lotus Elise seats or Sparco Roadsters if you want to drive it more than once per week.

You want an mushroom shaped flat-bottom back to the steering rack.

Cam gears may give you more power, but you'll have more than you need at the track. It's going to be so much fun.

subin for more pics :)

Holy shit! Very nice job :bigtu: In for the numbers...

Nice parts list... nicer than mine

BTW Technoracer says that the 2001+ coils are good for 24+ psi.

I didn't know Hydra 2.7 was out. We have the same injectors. I'm on Hydra 2.6 and yes cold start in cold weather has kind of sucked. I wonder what other benefits there are though-- I'm kinda getting tired of having to pay and ship for lameass hardware upgrades.

How much did it cost for the IM welding?

Yeah the coils are probably overkill but I just couldn't help myself.
I am waiting for the 2.7 upgrade to come back from them right now. 2.5 units had to have entire new board installed, I believe the 2.6 is just a firmware update. anyway there are a bunch of new tables and I am not a talented tuner but I will try and work with Tim Bailey to learn something when he tunes my car.
here is the list of features that hydra emailed me
The Hydra2.7 has complete new firmware and software along with new processor with onboard datalogging and new idle, boost control, aux map and long term trim strategies. The 2.7 will also have capability to configure for additional sensors as inputs with configurability. Stage5 Epsilon has built in CAN Bus for use with external dashes, so you can run a dash and tune at same time. Hydra2.7 will be firmware upgradeable remotely without sending the ecu back. Each stage will be upgradeable to the next remotely without sending the ecu back.

You can also just buy individual Capabilities if you do not want the next full stage upgrade.

Stage 1 Alpha and Stage 2 Beta will be stripped down versions with less outputs and inputs then the current Hydra2.5 and 2.6. To get equivalent Outputs as the Hydra2.5, you will at least need the Stage 3 Gamma upgrade


Alpha
4 injector
2 inputs
6 outputs
Knock control

Beta
6 injector
6 inputs
9 outputs
Aux Fuel/Ignition Map
Launch Control
Intake VCT Control
lambda Target
Tip-in Enrichment
injector phasing
Basic boost Control
Staged Injection

Gamma
8 Injectors
10 inputs
14 outputs
Change datalog channels
Antilag Fuel /Ignition Map
Exhaust VCT
Immobilizer request
Valet Request
Flat Shift
Alternator Control
VE Mode
Alpha N Mode
Boost Compensation
Gear Correction
Individual Fuel and Ignition Trim
STT Ignition Trim
Throttle derivative
3D maps
Manifold Pressure delta trim

Delta
Steering Load
Traction Control
Coolant Temp RPM Trim
External Map sensor
Engine Speed Delta Trim
Idle speed Error Trim
Calibration Input Maps
Fuel Pressure correction
TPS Position Trim
Barometric Compensation
Fuel Temperature Compensation

Epsilon
Onboard CANBUS Control
Two Internal feedback outputs
Humidity Correction
EGT Correction(requires CAN Expansion Box)
Flex Fuel Support
External Wideband Support
Vehicle Speed Pit Limiter

So which coils did you go with? I saw a bunch of coils on the DIY site.


Humidity correction. That's interesting. I wonder how it would deal with water injection :|

Fuel Temperature. Neato. Useful for all out drag guys?

External wideband-- does this mean you no longer need the stupid proprietary Hydra wideband sensor?

EGT correction- nifty. If only this could be used with the knock sensor for timing autotune!

wow. Beautiful. I'm glad to see it all together, that exhaust looks awesome! I too keep paging up to the first post :)

Did you have an extra set of MVS flanges in your MVS box?

Yeah the manifold and downpipe look awesome Tim! Thanks, sorry it took me so long to get it together.
No we didn't have any extra flanges

Oh yeah almost forgot the cutting and welding on the manifold was about $275 I think

I have the IGN-1A race coils-need to find somewhere to mount them and then get some custom plug wires made

In for more awesome.

Thanks for the info- will be helpful for some manifold work I'm shopping around for.

Ahh those coils!

Hmm I have thought about going to super coils just in case. When are you doing the upgrade? Maybe I can do it too and we can help each other with the R&D/testing.
:makeout:

Sure, I haven't installed the coils mostly because the main thing was to get it started and running first. I'll let you know where we decide to mount the coils and how. The wiring shouldn't be difficult

I agree with Hustler about those Exige seats. Easily the nicest/comfortable track ready seat I've ever sat in.

This is what my mechanic came up with to mount the coils. Looks pretty slick. It is actually mounted from the strut bar. Hopefully it won't vibrate too much

Attachment 191535

Hydra is back from upgrade. Coils are installed.
Tuning may commence tomorrow.
I have thought about the oil pressure issue and I will probably just bite the bullet and go with a full dry sump system from Armstrong Race engines as he already has a casting for a dry sump pan for the miata. it will probably be a 3 stage system but I am not sure if a 4 stage system would be able to pull vacuum in the crankcase and the head. Probably overkill. I'll have to work out if it makes sense to keep AC or if it will work. AC is just so nice to have in a street car. Seems silly to have the only dry sump street miata that I know of so complete conversion to a track car may be inevitable. Hmm aeromotions active wing, big splitter, diffuser, flat bottom-my wife is really gonna love that.
All this might depend on another miata project. Found a 99 with a full cage, low mileage engine, Teins, and willwoods for pretty cheap and am considering whether it needs an LS3 swap.

Why go dry sump? I do think that would be a waste. There are several tracked 350hp miatas here and they do fine without a dry sump.

Probably more for fun/interst. It does remove the oil pump gears as a potential point of failure during high rpm use and prevent possible oil starvation with heavy braking that others have reported.-of course at the expense of additional possible points of failure
It might free up a little HP in reduced windage losses/better crankcase ventilation.

Mostly just for fun though. oh yeah and it looks cool too.

Where would you mount the pumps? How much would the whole package run, new pan and all?

Pump unit is mounted to front of the engine with a custom bracket and runs on a belt drive attached to the front of the crank pulley/damper.
this setup would probably be around $2.5K might be more due to length of hoses as I would have to mount the oil tank in the trunk as there really isn't anywhere to mount a 2.5 gallon tank in the engine bay

Thumbs up to you if you do it!

Damn that would cost more than my turbo, pistons, and rods combined!

looks like a solid build. good luck!

So after discussion with my mechanic I think I will have to pull the engine and go through it. The low oil pressure gives me no confidence of the ability of this build to stand up to extended WOT periods.
We'll mainly check the bearing clearances, check the oil pump/bypass. the pickup, check the head etc
rebuilding the motor will give me a chance to do some stuff I didnt do the first time like WPC treatment of some stuff, REM on the crank journals I don't know.
I am still planning on adding a full dry sump system from Anderson Race engineering.
Hopefully the NB radiator from Trackspeed will be available soon
Lastly, my tuner really hates the Hydra 2.7 so far. He asked me if I would switch to an AEM today

I agree on the Hydra. I think it's garbage compared to the AEM.

Wait, what is your oil pressure issue? How much pressure are you seeing at idle? How much at redline?

If the motor was built like most race motors, both main and rod journals would be looser than stock. This would give you the low oil pressure issues. That has been a problem as long as people have been building race motors.

You should at least consider discussing the issue with Boundary Engineering before making a rash decision and spending that kind of doe on a dry sump.

When I talked to Boundary, they suggested that I know exactly what my rod and main journal clearances were, and then they would know how much volume and pressure to correctly set up the oil pump. You may just need to pull the pump, and have it shimmed to the correct volume.

Sounds to me that the engine builder built the motor loose like it should be, and a simple oil pump adjustment is all it needs. I doubt seriously that there is a problem with the motor. I hate to see you throw money away unnecessarily.

Well after a long year the beast finally runs.
Short block was rebuilt with proper bearing clearances and it now has great oil pressure.
Had some problems with local miata shop and the integral cams were damaged and are now being repaired for $460.
So the car has stock cams in it for now.
this is one of the plots from the intial tune-the ID 1000s actually idle pretty nice
The intial tune was pretty conservative. The final intial tune made 342hp but for some reason I don't have that plot on my jump drive. at this tune level car is still quite quick.
Inital plan is put a few miles on the car and then come back and retune(maybe with repaired integral cams) with a race gas tune as well. Still considering whether to switch to E85 it's just that any stations are so far from my house that it makes it impractical
Still a few odds and ends to finish up-install trackspeed front rotors, trackspeed NB radiator when available then do some ducting and then hopefully finished.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1315421314

Your boost be creepin' son. If you do decide on E85 I have a feeling ID1000's won't be enough depending on how much boost you plan on running, but then again you'd want to take advantage of E85 and run all of the boost at least 50 psi.

Also, I agree with your tuner on Hydra...mine laughed when I mentioned Hydra and said it's the biggest POS and a pain to tune. Go AEM you won't regret it.

342hp on 14psi, is very nice. Definitely makes you wonder what 20psi is going to be like... https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1315446506

Got my Trackspeed radiator today. Very nice piece welds look really good. Looks pretty thick. I'll try to get it mounted and get some pictures soon!

Not much much more. A 1.6 I tuned made 327hp at 14psi and 407hp at 25psi. GT3076, nice header, cams, MS2.

That's ok, I was never going for an all out horsepower monster. I was shooting for about 350whp. Mostly just wanted to make it a lot of fun and reasonably reliable to track occasionally. I doubt I am a good enough driver to put 500whp to the ground at 10/10ths anyway.
E85 would be great for some extra HP but no one carries it near my house so until then I will just stick with pump gas. Of course there is always the bug to get more horsepower and while I am intrigued by the GTX turbos, I'll probably just put the money in some suspension(Xida 2ways?) or aero mods maybe strip and cage it.
I still haven't decided if I am going to put the integral cams in it or just swap to VVT head and call it done.
For now I just want to drive the thing and it still needs a corner balance and alignment.

Are you curious at all why you're missing 75+ft.lbs of torque at 4500rpm?

(Posting from my phone.)

You can see it by the boost plot..it would be making shit tons more mid range if the boost at spool up matched that of redline

He's making 14psi at 4500 scott and just 210 ftlb with a 3071. IIRC I made about 230torques at the wheels at that rpm with the same exhaust mani, a much smaller IWG turbo (2560) and worse cyl. head. Summin's not right. He did say that was the pre tuned plot though.

I don't have the final plot from the initial day of tuning. The torque curve was somewhat better, I think it was around 225-230 at 4K. There is still some more tuning to be done before I start driving it. They were also playing with some of the 2.7 Hydra features and this is the first car with the 2.7 they have tuned. I'll post an updated dyno plot from the next session(I also wasn't there when they did the intial tuning).
Honestly I was just excited that the car actually runs-has good oil pressure and doesnt appear to leak any fluids to be too concerned about numbers right now. I'm sure there will be plenty of things left to work out prior to getting anything like the best performance out the car.

Hmm I was at 330tq@ 400hp. Same turbo. Crappier manifold.

Me no understand how the difference can be that big.