Ooh, can I come too. Might be an expensive trip but worth it!

Dooo eeeeet!

I live 10 minutes from Laguna Seca. Stay with me and all you'll need is a plane ticket. Bring a couple R&Ps in your luggage on the way up, and some injectors on your way back, and you've paid for the trip!

I've made some more progress over the last few days. I had a driveshaft made, and with that and some additional wiring I ordered, I've got everything I need to complete the build.

One problem I ran into was the DDM flywheel Sits a little closer to the oil pan than the stock one, and the ecotec miata oil pan isn't what you might call precise in its dimensions. A set of round head allen bolts were hitting the oil pan. I clearanced them with a dremel and now the flywheel spins freely.

Also, the ecotec miata oil pan doesn't have a cover or bolts that mate up to the transmission on the bottom the way the stock LE5 oil pan does. It leaves the flywheel completely open and exposed to flying rocks, oil drips, or things hanging down in the engine bay. I whipped up a little bracket to add some strength on the bottom side engine-transmission mating, and made up some covers for the other open spots. This should really be part of the ecotec miata AR5 kit. I got an early version, so hopefully they add something to solve this problem in the production ready version.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...62ae960d1d.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...cb4959b157.jpg

I've took off 17 years of grease and grime in the engine bay, trimmed back and welded the tabs on either side of the trans tunnel, and painted over the bare spots.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5e5a948146.jpg

And I cut the PPF to make space for the AR5 PPF adapter that comes with the kit.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...de9c0e0c5d.jpg

I plan to drop the engine and trans back in tomorrow or the next day and bolt it down properly. After that:
- bolt up to the PPF via the adapter, adjust the angle, install the driveshaft
- find a place to mount the ECU and connect up the harness to the engine
- run new cables from the battery to the starter, ECU, and new relay box
- connect up the miscelanious wires like tach, reverse light etc.
- reinstall the radiator and connect up all the cooling hoses
- reinstall the intercooler and figure out intake plumbing
- figure out how I'm going to get the spedo to work
- fab up a downpipe and exhaust
- anything else I have forgotten
- do burnouts

Having owned and tuned my old LNF Cobalt SS/TC, your going to love the turbo response on that twinscroll K04. I was running ~320whp/380wtq on OEM everything with E47 fuel at ~23 psi. Clutch was just starting to show signs of slipping so I ramped boost in a little slower and all was well until the day I sold the car. That same powerband in a car that weights 6-700 lbs less and is RWD? Yes yes yes.

Edit: I have my old LNF HPT tune maps if interested in reference material.

Thanks! I'm stoked. I'm using megasquirt for this, so I wouldn't know what to do with the HPT files. I think in terms of tuning I'll probably find the most difficulty dialing in timing and vvt, both of which would be different than the LNF. I'm finding disappointingly little on people who have tuned the LE5 well with turbo. I think the MO of most solstice boosters is to give their credit card to someone and have them do it.

Unless you already have a solid base map, using his files will be extremely useful, even for referencing timing/vvt. (and looking at his logs wlil also prove very useful)
How do you plan to control DI timing?

The LNF is DI, the LE5 that I'm using is port injection and I'll be using some frankly amazing 960cc injectors at 4 bar (so 1110cc in my application). The LNF and LE5 both have VVT, but I'm not sure if they are similar or not. I've got a base map from someone running a similar setup in a Miata (LE5+K04+MS3) that leaves a lot on the table for a good tuner to figure out. I wonder where I could find a good tuner...

All that said, I'm pretty out of my depth here, so if maps from a DI engine are useful, then I'd love to take a look, Padlock.

ahhhhh ok I keep forgetting that you're PI

Ahh, didn't know you were going MS. If it helps I can pull a factory LE5 and factory LNF file from the HPT database and then at least you have a base map to know where GM sets them from factory. You can only access this database if you are a paid HPT user, which I am. I believe the VCM suite software to open up the files is free to download and use, but you'd have to double check via this link. https://www.hptuners.com/downloads/

If you cannot get the software to open up for you after download, then let me know and I can shoot you over screenshots of timing maps and fueling targets set up in the OEM tunes. PM me in that case, and I'd be glad to help. Nothing is more frustrating then getting base maps set up with no reference material.

The LNF likes a LOTT leaner AFR targets during WOT so I know you wont wanna follow that on your LE5. I was running 12.8-13.0 AFR at 23 psi WOT and the car loved it. DI is an amazing thing.

Based on my recollection of the ecotec forums I was on a few years back, a majority of ecotec owners are scared of tuning "witchcraft" so your credit card statement holds true.



Edit: Just looked in the HPT tune repository and found a turbo LE5 solstice file which may be valuable to you. It has the following detail notes on it.

2007 Saturn Sky- 2.4L LE5 engine
Engine – All factory internals and throttle body
TURBO- T3/T4 57 trim with .63 exhaust housing, 2.5” V-band outlet
Wastegate- Internal with 8psi spring
Manifold- Stainless Log
Intercooler- 3” thick core V-mounted in the nose with 2.5” diameter aluminum IC piping
MAF- Factory MAF used as blow through in a 2.5” diameter tube in the same location as stock. (welded on the GM aluminum MAF pad from Summit)
Downpipe- Catless 2.5” 304 stainless going into a full 3” magnaflow stainless exhaust
O2 sensors- Upstream narrow band O2 sensor only (no post cat sensor being used) plus NGK AFX wideband controller for tuning
Fuel- Premium (93 octane with 10% ethanol)
Injectors- ZZP Siemens 60 # for 2.4L LE5
MAP- ZZP GM 2-bar for LE5
Filter- The turbo has cone filter on the compressor housing, no intake
BOV- Located in a 2.5” SS tube and vented to atmosphere and is located pre-MAF (just after turbo outlet)
PCV system- The PCV hole in plastic intake manifold has been filled to eliminate oil in the Manifold from the cylinder head

If it's not too much trouble - if you posted screenshots of as much of the above tune as seems useful, it could be really helpful. I'm figuring other people after me will attempt this, so posting here could help others too. Figuring out what to tweak or not on VVT control, as well as timing and AFR in boost are areas that there isn't much general knowledge on it seems.

The engine and transmission is in. The big struggle over the last couple of nights was getting the PPF mounted to the trans. I've got an early version if what's intended to be an install kit, but the fitment is very poor. It took several hours of frustrating before I realized there was some contact between the adapter and transmission that's not visible when the trans is in. I should have test fit with the trans on the garage floor. About half of the surfaces facing the trans had to be cut back 3-5mm. Now it's in. Onwards!

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...02e1d57a9d.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8cce205218.jpg


I've been struggling with the downpipe - mostly because I suck at welding, but also because it's a bit tight. I should have that sorted out in a few more days.

I have the file pulled on my laptop. I'll try and remember to get some screenshots for you in the next few days.

That would be most excellent! :skid:

I ran my intake plumbing tonight. Despite the intake being on the opposite side of the car, the routing is quite similar to what I had before.
I'll tuck the air filter off to the side for now, but I may route it in front of the rad at some later point.
Hot side comes off the turbo and heads down, then wraps around the rad.
The intercooler is bolted up to the exact same points, just flipped 180 so that the temp sensor is on the new cold side.
The cold side pops up through the hole behind the driver side headlight, to the BOV, then into the way oversized TB.
Next up for the intake I'll need to sort out how to plumb the idle control valve.

Some more progress. Engine bay is getting shaped up.

I pulled the dash to work on wiring. It was a bit of a pain, but something I should have done at the very beginning.

Started building the exhaust. 3.5 inch off the turbo, condensing to 3 the rest of the day back.

There is a great thread showing how to best fit the exhaust around the diff, which formed the design for the mk kit. I can't find it now though. Does anyone remember off hand whose build thread that was?

I finally found the thread I was looking for. Tragically, non of the pics seem to currently be working. Y8s, almost thanks.
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...t-build-48215/

Exhaust is done. The first bend of the down pipe in 3.5 inches and then the rest is 3.

Down pipe

so unfortunately my tuning laptop is having some critical errors that dont allow me to update to the latest software and open the file for you. I'm still working through the bugs to try and get it fixed, but you should be able to go to the downloads page on HPtuners here (https://www.hptuners.com/downloads/) and download the software, install, then view the file attached.

Thanks Padlock, I'll give it a whirl!

Thanks Padlock, I'll give it a whirl!

Forgot to install the knock sensor, so the intake manifold has to come off.

Also, I'm having the darndest time bleeding the clutch. It's supposed to auto bleed when you press the clutch in, but it's just not building pressure. I'm going to try applying vacuum next.

Lordy that looks so good.

Re the clutch, if you haven't already, try just pumping the pedal over and over somewhat vigorously with the nipple open for a good few minutes.... works for me on a standard miata clutch system that had been full of air.

The tricky part is there is no nipple on this system. The slave is internal in the trans, and is "self-bleeding". If I have to do this again, I'd first fill the slave and line on the bench before installing. Also, some people tap the slave and add a remote bleeder, which would be a huge help.

If this is a GM slave you're referring to, I wouldn't waste any more time and just pull it for a bleeder valve. I've bled a few and over heard many curse words from across the shop from techs bleeding GM slaves. A lot of the aftermarket ones already have the bleeder line installed. You can even route it up to the engine bay and never have to crawl under the car to bleed it again.

That is the last thing I want to do. It was a major pain to connect the engine and transmission on the floor. And it's so close to being ready!

And yeah, GM slave :(

So close, yet so far. The clutch built pressure, then started dumping brake fluid all over my garage floor. We pulled the engine and found that although I ordered a clutch slave for a 2.4, I received one for a 2.0. Womp womp. Apparently that explains the bleeding issues as well as the part failure. They aren't interchangeable.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c2423eebb7.jpg
Feeling empty

Curly - for a bleeder, does it need to be welded on, or can it just be tapped in? Is there a super reliable easy button? I'd hate to add something that could fail in an inconvenient spot just to gain a little convenience in the bleed process.
This is what the slave looks like:
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...429dd83192.jpg

I’d research aftermarket solutions with a good rep. They have built in bleeders, swivel fittings, -3 AN lines for easy replacement, etc. I might have a -3 dry break floating around my tool box you could try too. Those are really nice.

It runs!

Congratulations! Let me know if you ever run Sears Point so I can bug you for a ride. Maybe I will make it down in October.

No build is ever finished, but this feels so much more done than not done at this point I just want to take a moment to enjoy it. I'm only running 5 psi of boost right now, but my butt dyno says it's got more power than my previous set up (MK turbo at 14psi). The two screenshots below are pulls from 3500 and 2500 RPM respectively. Can you tell which color is MAP and which is TPS? No, because boost is instant.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6006397539.png https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4efbe48102.png

I'm losing spark in some spots so I'm getting some new coils, and the tune doesn't have enough time on it to even smooth out the VE table. I'm getting knock in a bunch of places and the internet says these engines throw falls knock all the time, but even so I'm running a super conservative spark map. I also think I might be burning some oil, so I'm not sure what that's about. Once a get a couple weeks of smoothing out all the rough spots I'll take it for a dyno tune and really get it dialed in. I've got a flex fuel sensor installed, but I'll hold off on E85 until I really get this tune locked in.

I've got the engine bay tidied up pretty well. I built a two-layer heat shield for the turbo because there are fuel lines right beside it. I went with the Cappuccino washer bottle to make space, but generally it doesn't seem to take up more space than a turbo BP.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8e47d4f458.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...25d83d2d2d.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6de7b164bd.jpg

For gauges, I went with a tablet setup with USB OTG. The tac, speedo and fuel gauge are on the main dash, and one day I may do a real oil pressure gauge and working engine temp on the main dashboard. I'm also fairly stoked about the ECU mounting. That wasn't planned, but it fit so nicely I just had to go with it. I'll be running a small amp in the glovebox powering the door speakers, with audio supplied by the tablet.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...17a09cde93.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0d1d7897ed.jpg

Aaaand, I just think it looks awesome from the back. But that's just me.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b91fc71187.jpg

Spent some time at the dyno today. I couldn't figure out how to get it to hold boost to the redline, so I didn't put down the kind of power I was looking for, but I was able to tune find some gains across the full range. When I got home, I found that the EBC valve had come unplugged :vash:
Still, 275 ft-lbs at the wheels at 3k feels soooooo nice.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f16d11a313.jpg

Oh well, next time. Sounds pretty nice even without EBC.

Well that was short lived. I had a couple days of sweet power. It really felt amazing once the boost was turned up. The as I was dialing boost control I overboosted hitting 15psi at 3100 RPM. Now I'm one piece short of a full piston.

You may want to enlarge the bumper cutout over your exhaust, it'll burn the bumper.

:-( Sorry to hear!
You got till October to fix er' up!

I sure hope it doesn't take that long!

must've been the amount of timing you were running? 15psi is stock boost levels on the LNF.

How strong are these engines typically? It doesnt even look like the piston was showing signs of detonation.

The ring land is reportedly a weak point on these pistons when boosted. I think I was running too much timing, as the cell I ended up in was one that I didn't think I was going to end up in, so I hadn't given it as much thought regarding timing as I should have. Where the issue happened it was 200-205 KPA, 3100-3200 RPM, and about 14 degrees of timing. Other guys in endurance racing have lost bits like this at lower boost levels and lower timing levels.

I think wouldn't be surprised if the LNF has stock forged pistons.

Actually I did some research, everything is forged....EXCEPT the pistons lol. I bet they are hypereutectic or something, if that was a forged piston it probably would melt before it chunks up like yours did.

LNF, LE5, and LSJ are all hypereutectic AFAIK.

My car can't go, but at least it will be able to stop real quick...

:likecat:

Is that an off the shelf kit, or are you piecing it together? Looks good!

It's the big boy Trackspeed 11.75" superlite kit. We're going to be stocking these kits in short order.

Hi Nigel awesome build, Im sorry you are having some engine trouble. Hopefully a set of pistons will bring it back to life. I recently purchased a whole powertrain from a solstice gxp and plan on swapping it in my 2000 miata for track use. Your build thread answered some of my concerns like where to route the exhaust, but am still curious on what you did for some other things like:
What did you do for a clutch master cylinder for the AR5?
Did you have to modify the turbo outlet to fit under the hood?
What intercooler kit or piping are you using? I was thinking about using the Fab9 larger intercooler but not sure if the ebay piping is any good.
Are you using the factory turbo blow off valve or aftermarket?
What did you do for fuel lines and pressure?

Any info would be appreciated. I am thinking about doing a build thread here once I start the project(hopefully this winter)
Thanks

I haven't posted updates for a while, but I'm in the home stretch for getting this thing back up and running. I've made a couple of small tweaks in putting it back together, but in the end I opted to jump toss in another junk yard motor and be on my way.

First of all, the 2.0 is a cool choice here. I don't know of anyone whose done it yet, and you should expect to do a lot more cutting to make it fit. It's a direct injection engine, so fueling will be different than my setup, which is the port injected 2.4. The 2.0 can make great power in stock form and there is a solid aftermarket, unlike the 2.4 which is a bit of an orphan.

For the clutch master I got a kit from ecotecmiata. It included the master with an adapter, a hose of the right length, a few fittings, and a beefy adapter to join the AR5 to the Miata PPF. Fitment was okay, but it was quite reasonably priced so I'd go the same route if I was doing it over. I don't think they advertise it, but if you are buying your oil pan from them just ask.

Turbo outlet had to be cut and re-welded to fit

I'm using all eBay intercooler parts. I just reused my 2.25" piping and intercooler from my BP turbo setup. For the 300whp/300wtq I'm going for, I don't think it will be a big limiting factor.

I ran an aftermarket blow off valve and EBC that I carried over from my turbo BP setup, but then I found that the turbo does all that just fine. It's a Borg Warner and shares many features with the EFR including built in EBC and bypass valve. It works quite well.

For fuel I'm running a DW200 pump, stock returnless fuel lines at 60psi, and FF960 injectors. Again, all stuff that carried over nicely from the BP. I just had to run some extra fuel line and shielding to reach the other side of the engine bay. I just did run of the mill E85 compatible Continental fuel line.

Today is a sad day. My regular job has been quite demanding lately, so it took me 4 months to get the new (old) engine in and going. I put about 25 miles on it and I get rod knock. I was so looking forward to turning some laps this weekend at Miata Reunion. :mad:

That's terrible news. So sorry to hear!

Hope you get her up and running soon- though depending on your location, it seems like it might be a winter project.
Best of luck.
Dan

Darn im so sorry to hear that. Maybe you can piece together a good motor with what you have. Thanks for the info on your build. I sent a reply about your initial response but it doesnt look like it saved it? I am currently piecing parts together for mine. Once I start I will make a build thread.

It was good to see you again this weekend Nigel. I was looking forward to a ride in your car. Hopefully we both get our cars on the road soon.

Totally. I'm going fully forged, no holds barred, all-out, overbuilt, so much less likely to fail, allofit this time.

Just curious, I am doing the same exact swap in my NA. Who made your driveshaft and if its not asking to much what about did it run you.

I just had a local shop do it for me. It was about $600 I think, and I had to get an adapter from driftmotion for about $150.

I approve of this message.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...df3a556ae8.jpg
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