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Popcorn: Miata/Datsun PL521 Hybrid Build
I was thinking about doing this as an EV, maybe a K24Z3, and then it occurred to me... I have all the parts to do it as a Miata sitting in my garage... in my Miata, Mental. I have driven it less than 250 miles per year for the last 6 years. Keeping it for sentimental reasons (and the kick-ass stereo. Seriously spend more time in it listening to music than I do driving it.) So Mental is going up for sale, and when that fails it will get parted out out to make way for something more, ummm, useful. I need a truck, seeing how I keep borrowing them from other people.
Mental pics: https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a45c164752.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6a01b75cb7.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...51d2ef041f.jpg So I bought this the Datsun PL521 pickup and sat on it for a year waiting for inspiration. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d9b1272682.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...aa90bc78ce.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...1e0ec03cd4.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e8c859d14d.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...76b4cbfb5e.jpg I bombed the hell out of it and threw out all the interior. It had been sitting in AZ since 1986 and all of the non metal bits have perished. That was how it sat on the lift for the last year. |
And then inspiration struck. Dismantling and disposing:
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8b651a7d93.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...07f1d9ffa9.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0b22155856.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8fd434d970.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8ae7e7982c.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0ee7f52b46.jpg Making notes about axle centerlines: https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2a9a24da68.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...31e7e157eb.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...60741ab293.jpg Frame weight: (ignore the cross, etc I did not pay attention to where I put each scale.) https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...84d5571957.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...56b82985a8.jpg Total vehicle weight (required for CA truck registration) was 1980 lbs. Crazy light. |
Playing around with the frame in Solidworks:
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ff59c80e84.png https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...82134460b3.png https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6aa5181e43.png Cutting off all the OEM suspension mounts: https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...05016e28d6.jpg Mocking up the rear subframe. I wanted to push it up as high as possible, but even then it is not going to be as low as Mental is. For reference, Mental is ~4.5" pinch weld and 3" between the frame rails and the ground. The truck will probably end up at 4.5" from the frame to the ground. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...bce0417610.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c6d2cd34d6.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...3a89863762.png https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...05286806e6.png My computer is not happy with those scans for the subframes. Too many triangles for Solidworks. Gets weird when I turn on shaded with edges. Plus those scans are slightly crooked and not watertight. It is going to take too much time to straighten out for FEA, so I will probably skip on that. And that is where it is now. Going to be much cutting and welding to get it working. I am hoping that I can have it rolling at a fixed ride height before the end of the month, but that may be a bit optimistic. |
Interesting. My Datsun PU was a complete dog, and I hated it for that.
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Did some more cutting and test fitting.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...3455cc0d9e.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...be26ffdddd.jpg On to cutting. Ended up looking like something out of a slasher flick. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...cfc0cb3838.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...735d8ca2b6.jpg And then some fitting to see how much more I needed to cut out. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8936575b1a.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...7a523bca2c.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8ba21f57b1.jpg This is still higher than the planned static ride height, so I cut some more out. I may have gone a bit too far... the frame started to feel a bit springy right around the cut areas. So we shifted to welding, which I have never done. But Ed and Eric can and showed me how. I suck at it, so Ed took over and welded until we ran out of gas. I will practice on something before doing any more. Still need to add more structure back into it, but I have some ideas for that. |
This is certainly an interesting one, looking forward to seeing where it goes!
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Some more cutting and fitting. Close enough on the rear to move onto the front.
Full bump: https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...207f40f3cd.jpg Static: https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...1b15410f67.jpg Full droop: https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...3a3f5b5c85.jpg There is 2" frame to ground clearance at full bump and 4" at static. I am planning on spacing the top hats up about 1" to allow for longer shocks and more stroke. |
sick
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Not much of an update, but took this:
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...19bc44e2ed.jpg To this: https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...caebdc8e07.jpg And this: https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...47e9de44e5.jpg Cutting out the floorpan was much harder than I had planned on. Poor Monty. Not much truck action this weekend. I am getting read to sell or part out Mental. I figure there is a street value of right at $20k of parts in it. Don't wanna know how much I have spent on it in the last 10 years. |
This project has now gone sideways into a crowd of bystanders...
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...7249b29621.jpg Ok, it was hit by a Hyundai, based on the bits and pieces found in the trunk. No innocent bystanders were hurt in the filming of this thread. I mostly bought it for this: https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d90bd906a6.jpg 2.3L, turbo, 310hp/350 ft/lbs with TONS of aftermarket support. Stuff you would never want to put into your car. Amazing what sales numbers can do for a platform. This is a 2015. I kinda bought it spur of the moment, and maybe should have done a bit more research first. I wanted an auto transmission (easier since I don't have to worry about where the shifter goes) and Sync 3 (gets Android Auto). I got a 6 speed auto and Sync 2... with no Android auto. That is now an $800 upgrade. Boooo. Should have gone for the 2018+ with a 10 speed and Sync 3 included. The prices on Copart did not change much until the 2020 model anyways. If I could only sell this for about what I have in it (i.e. small loss) I would redo it. FWIW, this is cheaper than doing a K24Z3 swap with a BMW DCT once you add in the cost of getting the K24 up to 300hp and the associated electronics. I will use just about all of the electronics from this in my project. I can't wait to see what the wiring harness weighs. Anyways, I spent months agonizing over how to do the front subframe install. I had put the subframes so far up into the stock frame that I was looking at having to split the frame to get it to work. I then had the idea of ditching the rear FLCA mounting point from the subframe and recreating it inside the Datsun frame. I am now working on that with a local fabricator, and hopefully we will have it rolling again this month. Then I am going to get Renderos Racing to do the roll cage / chassis stiffening. While it is in his care, I will work on parting out the Mustang. I am really hoping to have a running vehicle this year. Maybe not on the road again, but close. Edit: I did a burnout in the parking lot. No bystanders to witness this event. |
Super cool project... watching with great interest, as I've been scheming about putting NC subframes/suspension under a Mk1 Ford Capri.
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I have been surprised to find that some of the NC engine parts bolt onto the EcoBoost. The NC transmissions are a bolt on, as is the oil pan. Makes me want to try an EcoBoost NC swap. The dressed engine weighs in at 300lbs and the 6R80 transmission is 200lbs.
We got the front suspension fitted in. Still needs some adjusting, but the the hard part is done. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2e7ea79ff3.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6085d244d6.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...16acc1ad9c.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...3f539418c3.jpg Back to the rear next week and hope to have it rolling again soon. I had to store the bed and body outside and we have had more rain in the last month than this truck has seen since 1986. |
amazing. I wish I had this level of skill to do this for my Datsun Z. I'd have loved to use XIDA's
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After taking a bunch of measurements, we decided that the subframe install was only off a small amount and that the frame has some twist in it. We think it will be able to align well enough and went ahead and welded everything together. She is not coming apart again.
And then we welded the rear subframe in. We decided to do the custom rear shock mounts instead of the OEM ones. I need to redraw them slightly before sending them out to be made. It is going to need custom shocks.... lucky for me I work for a place that specializes in custom shocks. Still going to be $$$ though. This is starting to add up. I have just hit the amount I parted out Mental for. That Mustang hurt the budget, but I decided that it was worth it for a running and driving vehicle. Sure hope that motor fits between the frame rails and under the hood. |
I think you're going to really like that engine. While the 3.5 I have in my truck is larger, I think that Ford got it right with their latest generation of engines. I haven't been this satisfied with the power delivery of a vehicle since my 5.0 Mustang.
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Oh, wow. Just stumbled across this build. Epic, and subbd for updates!
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Absolutely insane. Subbed for updates.
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3 Attachment(s)
Rear shock mounts tack welded for fitment check.
Attachment 227048 Attachment 227049 Attachment 227049 Not perfect, but close enough to work. |
Everything is welded up. I hope to get it rolling again this week and the body back on next.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a106477b8a.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...7f2f2c679e.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c0a56844f8.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...dc285e2df9.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8164e5a011.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...3674a40f20.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a93272e112.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d6cf83d82b.jpg It now weighs 262 lbs. It was 173 when I started. That was before cutting out the OEM suspension mounts. I have kept all of the cut off parts and am going to weigh them here in a bit, but I don't see how I have added 90 lbs with the subframe addition. I also have a spare subframe set and will weigh those too. |
Front Subframe 36 lbs
Rear Subframe 34 lbs Metal removed from frame 75 lbs Top hats 32 lbs (for 2) Added 102 lbs, removed 75, difference of 27 lbs. Unless we added 63 lbs of welds, I don't know why it is so different. |
It rolls. A little too low, but then the shocks are a couple of inches too short. Will fix that here in a bit. Currently on the Tecna protos with travel limiting chips instead of springs. We are going to have a custom set of Tecnas made for it.
It was a pain to get off the lift due to the extreme ride height. The center braces are going to have to be replaced. After being in the sun for a few minutes, it got rained on. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...48d5cea82b.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4d0e74366e.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ea913a4ccc.jpg |
This crossmember is stupid low. It will have to go.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f974efd352.jpg We removed a bunch of Arizona desert from the cab before bringing it back in. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...30e9fe02dc.jpg Getting close to fitting the cab (ignore the piece of wood.) https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...988fdafbc6.jpg This engine bay is smaller than I remember. I hope I don't have to remove the balance shafts and dry sump the EcoBoost in order to get it to fit in there. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...37f8bb8e3a.jpg I should get the cab on this week, the bed on next week, and then I am going to give it to a friend to do the roll cage and chassis work. I am not pro enough (and don't have the right tools) for that job. I will strip the 'Stang while he has it. |
I couldn't wait for the weekend.
Is it too low? https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...fb828f4528.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...319778e4cf.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...996762112f.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...31f27d0e19.jpg Maybe I will get the bed on this weekend. |
This is awesome John!
Is that cowl vent and second/forward firewall on the chopping block already? |
I was thinking about putting the A/C from a Miata in it. That would pretty much eliminate the cowl vent.
After getting the Mustang, I thought it would be cool to incorporate as much of the OEM Ford electronics as I can. It would probably be too hard to get the Miata A/C to work with the Ford touchscreen controls, so I may try to use the Ford climate controls. Which would also kill the vent. Not sure what the firewall is going to be like. I have the 95 Miata floor sitting out back to swap in, but I think I am going to try and use the Ford steering. I also see a way to use the Ford EPS in it. I think it will mean cutting out part of the subframe to push the engine forward. Still lots of questions to be answered now that the first steps have been completed. |
Wheel test fit with some 17" wheels we have here. I am leaning towards 17" over 15"
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...7559047312.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...87b4de23bb.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f45132c22d.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a4fa63d37d.jpg This is close to the ride height I am shooting for and it should have 3" of bump travel from here. |
I still like the 15's best :skid:
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Guess it will depend on how much room there is. I'd like to see 17x10 with 255/40 in back but skeptical there will be enough room. For sure 15x11 with 275/35 Nankangs will have enough bump travel. That would look hawt with 15x10 and 245's up front.
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Needs 15" with high sidewall; the 17s look too modern to my eyes
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15s all the way
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Probably going with the 17's for gearing and MPH/RPM reasons. 19's would be even better, but good luck with 4x100 19" wheel choices.
Parted out the Mustang a couple of weekends ago. Kicked it out of the shop and hopefully have it sold. This week is about getting the engine sitting in the truck. Not really in, but at least close enough for the time being. I set it in there and then made some cuts to the subframe and crossmember. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4eb1628cad.jpg Placed it again, made a couple of more cuts, and figured it is close enough. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8f295683c8.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...3ba79fc0e8.jpg It needs to move about an inch to the driver's side, but it is hard up against the steering rack mount. I will address this later since I am planning on using the Ford EPS anyways. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a9a501d9c7.jpg Tomorrow I will drop the cab back on. I think there may be quite a bit of cutting going on. |
It fits! (extra cats to you if you know the anime I am thinking about when saying this line) I was worried that the high pressure fuel pump was not going to clear the cowl (it is the highest non-negotiable point on the engine.) But it clears with more than an inch to spare.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...7c5b62d6b2.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e1c6419050.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a3bf63c58f.jpg I see lots of problems in my future. But I will worry about those tomorrow. Next up: motor / transmission mounts, diff / driveshaft, and fitting the EPS. |
It has been a while. Many printed revisions of the motor mounts to get it to this point. Ditched the idea of using the Ford EPS. There was not enough room between the frame and the engine to fit it in. Going with the manual Miata rack and will consider doing an EPS conversion kit in the cab (if there is room.)
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...59d93c20e4.jpg I like to start my CAD with manila folder material. It is easy to cut and manipulate to get the contours correct. A is helpful to get the profiles close to start. I then transfer the designs to balsa wood. I like balsa over cardboard since it is easy to cut and you can sand it down for a more precise fit. You can get it McMaster Carr. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4cd1f09cf2.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...40b29509fc.jpg Next I will scan the parts to get them into Solidworks before sending them off to be made out of steel. I will also epoxy the parts together to help get it all just right in my model. The driver's side is a pain. It will probably take 3 supports to get it strong enough while avoiding the steering stuff. |
Hey. How's it going? Long time, no see.
So I took some time off of this, ostensibly to save up some money such that I could pay a guy to do the things I am not so good at. Like all the welding that needs to be done. Stuck the truck on the 4 post lift and then proceeded to store a bunch of stuff under the truck. Saved up a lot of money, and then gave it to the government. Decided I was going to have to do a lot of the welding myself. Borrowed a welder, practiced a small bit, ran out of gas. Bought a new big tank of gas, practiced a small bit, discovered I bought the wrong gas. Got the small tank refilled, practiced a small bit, ran out of wire. Finally got everything lined up and got enough practice to feel reasonably confident in my work. Then I made the motor mounts. My welds look like ass. I may have to go back, grind them out, and redo them. Once I get some more practice. You tube videos make it look easy. Here are some pictures of the motor mounts. I also cut out the inner fenders so that I can redo them to tie in the shock towers. I also made some room up front for the Ford radiator. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...45a81c3937.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...667bb8ca12.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...342c68e7c9.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...df7ea9ac3b.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4aed7eddcd.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...9b2ff12ea5.jpg Next week I will start on the inner fenders. I will be paying a friend to build the cage. That requires more skills than I will ever have. |
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This sparks joy.
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Originally Posted by turbofan
(Post 1649447)
This sparks joy.
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Love seeing the progress here. That front end design looks pretty awesome with the notched frame for the lower A arm. And that drivetrain fits like a glove.
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A very, very tight glove.
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