@Z_WAAAAAZ , I at least should be doing pads and rotors. I bought the current setup used from my old roommate back when the car was still fairly new to me, probably like 2021 :eek3: I've also swapped track pads onto those rotors, bedded them and then swapped back to the other pads later... I mean the car still stops so they can't be that bad, right? E85 was a huge pickup power wise. It seriously was like +50 WHP. I still want to make around 350WHP, but figure I'll probably run closer to 250-300 for any competition stuff. The 2860 should also allow me to hit 250-300 on pump gas I think, which considering we only have 2 E85 pumps in the state, is significant. Running E85 and lower boost seems like the ideal scenario.

@curly The track day is on October 4th and is 7 hours of open track, $325. If you look up Skip Day ORP you should be able to find it. You read my mind because I was going to suggest that you and Laz might want to make a trip out. I registered last night, so I guess I'm committed.
Good point on the individual cylinder trims. I haven't even thought about using those. Knock events are almost always registering on cylinders 2 & 3 which are closest to the knock sensor. I'm assuming that those are false positives and I'm not terribly worried about them. When I first got the knock sensor hooked up I was peaking to a 7+ on the knock signal, so something around 2.5-3 seems mild if anything.

On a ~20 minute spirited mountain drive I saw 3 knock events, 2 on cylinder 3 and 1 on cylinder 2. I wouldn't say it's very repeatable. The trend I have noticed over the past couple months has been knock mostly on cylinders 2 and 3 and usually around 4.5K RPM. 7KHz Narrow band filtering and a 2.4 Knock Threshold in the Link, using a drilled out Bosch donut sensor (just FYI for anyone who's interested).

Using the 7kHz narrowband should be fine, but consider using the wideband setting since you have the Bosch unit and the wideband option is made for them. It's hard to say if these are real knock events or not over the interwebs, but it's worth trying Curly's advice.

Slapped this table in and will monitor to see what the knock sensor shows. When there is knock registering it seems to be happening on lighter throttle slowly climbing into boost.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...cb83299192.png

-2!

You're adding timing in that table.

It's temping, I'll look into it. Expensive, and still 2 hours away, and it's not a track we're interested in racing at. But it's still a really fun venue.

Curly, that's the fuel trim table. It should just be adding 2% fuel to cylinder 3 unless I'm missing something. I was going to try fuel trim first and then timing trim after.

Oh sorry, thought that was ignition. Too early for me.

+1 again for the Link. Went through the flat shifting menus this morning, read the help/descriptions, punched in reasonable numbers and tested it without any issues at lunch. I was mostly doing it to maintain boost pressure but it definitely seems to allow the car to shift quicker as well.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c6e37901d4.png



It's setup to use the gearbox speed and associated settings to figure out exactly how much to drop the RPM instead of using a fixed RPM target. I already had that setup so it was as simple as selecting that setting.

Here are the settings I used for anyone interested. I'm not saying these are correct, but they seemed to work fine on the initial test.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...33244d98b1.png

For whatever reason this is the gear ratio table that works for me. I'm not sure how Link gets these numbers but the reported KPH/MPH is pretty accurate. This is the 6 speed with a 3.6 but I don't believe the diff ratio matters.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4d87c3ef5b.png


It's surprisingly tame at low boost which I attribute to the higher ignition timing in that area of the map. I expected a little pop or grunt from it but heard nothing. High boost on the other hand sounds like a shotgun. Might need to tweak the settings on that a bit but for now it's working and honestly if I'm driving the car aggressively enough to want to flat shift it I don't mind the pop. Call me a ricer :drama:

I'll also need to figure something out for 91 if I intend to use this much. I imagine with the way more retarded timing in the 91 map that the ignition timing would drop into the negatives which doesn't seem great (or necessary).

I'll say, I really love the flatshift on my MSM. Makes rowing the gears really snappy and boost recovery is insane.

Jesus I want FFS. But I'm afraid for my new transmission.

Yeah, getting through the gears is way quicker now.

Fire, if it makes you feel better I'm also fearful for the life of my 6 speed and my cat now. I definitely want to go to the bigger turbo but I don't know that I'm going to turn it up too much more from where it's currently at. At this point I basically want the bigger turbo for the increased efficiency and a bit more power, but I'm also worrying more and more about the life of the trans.

I wouldn't expect the flat shifting to be much harder if any on the trans, but I'm not really sure. The ignition retard/bangs makes me more worried about turbo and cat life than the trans. The Link also has a table for torque reintroduction so you can specify how long it takes for the ignition timing to be tapered back in, so I think that should help smooth out the power delivery to the trans.

It's my understanding that flatshifting with ignition or fuel cut + RPM match + torque reintroduction time is not any harsher on the drivetrain than banging a gear hard without flatshifting. The same cannot be said for the valves, turbo and catalyst under ignition cuts...

@SimBa how much ignition trim are you applying? And if you haven't I would disable the dog unload stage since you don't need that in a synchro gearbox. As far as cat/turbo life, give the fuel cut method a try instead of ignition cut. It will cause you to lose some more boost than with ignition cut (and may not be as fast), but it will keep the components happy. Alternatively, use a fuel trim to add fuel during the ignition cut, and that should assist cooling down the turbo and valves. The cat will still suffer regardless though, maybe even more since it will take raw fuel everytime. I use the fuel cut method in Scooter veeery sporadically, and the cat has been visibly fine (unknown efficiency though)....the jury is out whether my muffler and resonators are ok with it.

I can post my settings later, but they're likely similar to yours except fuel cut instead of ignition cut, and 0ms dog unload stage. Flatshifts are buttery smooth.

I actually found that video a while back when perusing youtube.

High RPM + Turbo + Ignition Cut? Don't worry man, that's where the stock valvetrain thrives!

I was driving around a bit last night and tried fuel cut. Compared to Ignition Cut it just seemed really slow, like I was waiting for the revs to drop before letting the clutch out. It sounded similar to your shifts in that video where the RPMs seemed to climb for a split second after putting the clutch in and then would start to drop but it seems like the clutch is doing a lot more work in that case.

Ignition retard is at 10 degrees which is the default for that table. I tried -5 but it wasn't quite quick enough. It looks like 10% fuel is being added during the shifts as well.

There were a few times where the car seemed to try to flat shift when putting around even with the TPS lockout, so I raised the RPM lockout to 4500 and that helped. I'm going to lower that to 4K and raise the TPS lockout to 70% and I think that should fix any issues with street driving.

Man it's fun though. I don't imagine anyone at autocross is going to enjoy it and I might blow sound, but the ricer in me loves it. I think I'm going to try to make it out to our local drag strip before the end of the year to see what she'll do.

Realistically I will try to quiet down the flat shifting or use it very sparingly. We'll see if the novelty wears off.

Also, @redursidae , have you looked at the Gear Shift Target/Error RPM on those flat shifts. Even with the ignition cut it still looks like it's a bit slow to get to the target RPM
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2811fccbde.png


Not totally sure what's going on with that first shifts target RPM. Might be worth breaking this out into it's own thread in the Link subforum

In my case the RPMs don't rise more than ~50 so this may be with how your clutch switch is positioned or with the activation delay? But yes it is much slower than ignition cut. It's either a slow RPM drop or blow the cat in due time, so I just don't use it much :D

Yep that can happen. I've had some dangerous moments where I've tried to aggressively join onto traffic and gearshift control or launch control activate on me. Or on a spirited drive messing around with gears and it would activate mid corner. So now I have them on a "cheatcode" GP Logic, where I have to heel-toe 3 times with the engine off for the motorsport features to activate. I find I just end up not using it on track anyways.

It sure is fun! I'm glad you're enjoying it. If not for worrying about hurting the catalyst I would use it with ignition cut on track.

I haven't looked at the error runtime in detail on mine but yes it takes a while to react. Actually, now that I say that I realize I haven't used it with the 1.6 lightweight flywheel, so it may be faster now than it was. Again, I was trying to be as nice to the cat as possible, so no aggressive ignition retard or ignition cut. Without a heavy retard into the negatives and closing the throttle slightly you may not see the RPMs drop as fast as you may expect. But look at the ignition cut % runtime to see if it's applying less than 90%. There is a table that maps RPM error to cut % and you could play with that to increase/reduce the aggressiveness of the cuts which in turn changes the sound and the reaction speed.

Sorry I forgot to post my settings last night, but starting a new thread under the Link forum is good idea. I'll try to remember tonight when I get home.

I forgot to respond to the part about waiting for the RPMs to drop. I don't wait when trying to do a fast shift with flatshift. The engine torque is already lowered with the fuel/ignition cut and ignition retard so I just shift and let it ramp back in and it feels very smooth. It's only marginally faster than shifting normally though, maybe 0.05s or a tenth faster at most. You get more benefit with a turbo because you don't loose as much spool, but NA is kind of a wash.

Do you worry about wearing out your clutch if the RPMs aren't very close during those shifts? That would be my main concern shifting like it shows in the video.

I do have a high flow cat fwiw, but even so I doubt it's good for it.

With the ignition cut it seems like the RPM's drop immediately, but it could just be masked by the gunshot from the exhaust. I'll keep an eye on the logs and might play around with fuel cut a bit more. I use fuel cut for 2 step and that works fine there, but it's a different situation.

So far I haven't had issues with launch/2 step activating when driving around. I don't think the flat shifting should cause issues with drivability if it's set up correctly, so we'll see how the lockouts perform.

I'm not worried about excessive wear during the shifts with the way it works. If you notice the RPMs just snaps to the target once I let go of the clutch. If it stayed high for a while like a slipping clutch I would worry.

I guess I forgot to mention the caveat that my launch control was setup as a latched type that would snap to the current RPM once I passed 40% throttle. So I would be trying to join traffic, go to 50% throttle and brrrrrrrr limiter at 2500 RPM. The idea was to be able to adjust the launch RPM without a rotary switch, and it works well at that, but yeah...scary on the road.

Loving this back and forth regarding flat shifting. I don't have much to add, but you guys have me thinking about looking at my settings to see what the ECU is doing now lol. My flat shifts are smooth but I'm just running the default settings and haven't messed with ignition advance or target AFR.

The one bit I can add: my buddy and I confirmed this with our AIM data at a track day earlier this year. The two of us are running the same powertrain combo in our cars but I'm running flat shift. Zooming in on the speed curve through each of the longer straights showed that my car "flatlined" on the graph less than his during each upshift. This equated to just over .05s per shift on average. Not much, but everything adds up! With a turbo, it seems like there might be some easy tenths to be gained.

That's great info! Totally adds up @ 0.05s per shift, say 4 shifts a lap, that's 2 tenths. Could be the difference between 1st and 3rd some days!

That's wild to hear. I wouldn't be surprised if it's just in my head but it definitely feels significantly quicker, granted I could just be shifting faster due to adrenaline.

I forgot to mention earlier but I did compare the fuel and ignition cuts I had in the logs and they didn't seem to be too far off as far as length of the shift or how close they got to the target RPM. I probably need to adjust my log viewer to show the clutch input as well so I can see when the clutch is reengaging to confirm that though. Again, keep in mind I'm just a hack who someone gave a laptop to.

I'm going to play around with it a bit more. Ignition cut is definitely hitting 100% cut FWIW