Shuiend blows motor #5; Naturally Aspirated Glory Incoming
10-20-2015, 04:55 PM
#1681
This is the first time I think it is a stuck relief valve. Below are the oiling issues I have ad over the past 5 years.
1. Originally did not put the oil relief valve in the oil pump. Did not realize it had been removed from the oil pump I had used. No damage was done to the motor, I added the relief valve in and the car ran great.
2. Added on glow shift oil sandwich plate and an RX7 oil cooler. Somehow the sandwich plate caused a blockage. Did not open the plug on the oil pump to test there. Pulled motor and had machine shop rebuild with a new BE vvt oil pump.
3. Tried new rebuilt motor with sandwich plate, had no oil pressure when trying to prime the pump, figured out it the sandwich plate. Removed it and oil pressure was good. Spun the thrust bearing while trying to prime originally, but motor was running good it seemed. Figured out about 750 miles later that crank could move in and out. Pulled motor and figured out what was wrong.
4. Rebuilt motor in a new bottom end. About 750 miles after driving it lost oil pressure. This is where I am at now.
1. Originally did not put the oil relief valve in the oil pump. Did not realize it had been removed from the oil pump I had used. No damage was done to the motor, I added the relief valve in and the car ran great.
2. Added on glow shift oil sandwich plate and an RX7 oil cooler. Somehow the sandwich plate caused a blockage. Did not open the plug on the oil pump to test there. Pulled motor and had machine shop rebuild with a new BE vvt oil pump.
3. Tried new rebuilt motor with sandwich plate, had no oil pressure when trying to prime the pump, figured out it the sandwich plate. Removed it and oil pressure was good. Spun the thrust bearing while trying to prime originally, but motor was running good it seemed. Figured out about 750 miles later that crank could move in and out. Pulled motor and figured out what was wrong.
4. Rebuilt motor in a new bottom end. About 750 miles after driving it lost oil pressure. This is where I am at now.
That sucks man, you've had a rough time with this. Good luck moving forward. I know it sucks have repeat failures, I've had them myself, last 2 motors in a row ended with a piston broke in half.
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10-20-2015, 05:41 PM
#1682
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I have seen two Honda B-series dump **** tons of oil on the floor from that damned Glowshit plate.. And another D that never got oil pressure either, and toasted every bearing in the thing.
Depending on what you stack them with (RX7 cooler in your case), it can cause a blockage. I love the Mocal plate, although pricey. Still be aware of the orientation the inlet and outlet holes in the plates form, after installing.
Such a bummer man, that machine shop sounds suspect too.
Depending on what you stack them with (RX7 cooler in your case), it can cause a blockage. I love the Mocal plate, although pricey. Still be aware of the orientation the inlet and outlet holes in the plates form, after installing.
Such a bummer man, that machine shop sounds suspect too.
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10-20-2015, 07:28 PM
#1683
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On case 1, what oil pump were you running? A stock pump, or BE Pump? Seems weird a stock pump wouldn't have a relief valve.
That sucks man, you've had a rough time with this. Good luck moving forward. I know it sucks have repeat failures, I've had them myself, last 2 motors in a row ended with a piston broke in half.
That sucks man, you've had a rough time with this. Good luck moving forward. I know it sucks have repeat failures, I've had them myself, last 2 motors in a row ended with a piston broke in half.
I have seen two Honda B-series dump **** tons of oil on the floor from that damned Glowshit plate.. And another D that never got oil pressure either, and toasted every bearing in the thing.
Depending on what you stack them with (RX7 cooler in your case), it can cause a blockage. I love the Mocal plate, although pricey. Still be aware of the orientation the inlet and outlet holes in the plates form, after installing.
Such a bummer man, that machine shop sounds suspect too.
Depending on what you stack them with (RX7 cooler in your case), it can cause a blockage. I love the Mocal plate, although pricey. Still be aware of the orientation the inlet and outlet holes in the plates form, after installing.
Such a bummer man, that machine shop sounds suspect too.
The machinist was the best that I could find in the area. The first time he built the block there was nothing that he did wrong. I removed the glow shift plate before he got the block, and installed it again after I got it back. It was only after I could not prime the motor that I figured out it was the sandwich plate.
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10-20-2015, 09:13 PM
#1684
I bought a 94 bottom end that had already been taken apart from a member on here. It was extremely cheap. So it was the OEM oil pump that I put BE gears into. I had never seen an oil pump before in my life, nor knew they had a relief valve at the time that I put it together. I sort of assumed the hole was supposed to be there or something. Had I known about needing a relief valve I would have spent the $5 in parts up front and reinstalled it. It was an error purely on me, that I learned from. No real damage was done except for me having to pull the motor again and such.
Yeah I now only recommend Mocal sandwich plates. One day when I get back to adding an oil cooler back to the car I will be using one.
The machinist was the best that I could find in the area. The first time he built the block there was nothing that he did wrong. I removed the glow shift plate before he got the block, and installed it again after I got it back. It was only after I could not prime the motor that I figured out it was the sandwich plate.
Yeah I now only recommend Mocal sandwich plates. One day when I get back to adding an oil cooler back to the car I will be using one.
The machinist was the best that I could find in the area. The first time he built the block there was nothing that he did wrong. I removed the glow shift plate before he got the block, and installed it again after I got it back. It was only after I could not prime the motor that I figured out it was the sandwich plate.
I had a similar situation long time ago. When I was a kid I did a 302 swap into a 94 thunderbird. When I got it all put together it wouldn't prime for oil pressure no matter how much or how long I spun it over. Finally did the drill down the distributor hole trick, still it wouldn't prime. Then I found the pickup tube laying in the box in the garage....
Last edited by patsmx5; 10-20-2015 at 11:14 PM.
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10-21-2015, 07:22 AM
#1689
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Whats the easiest way to dispose of a block? I don't think I can just toss it in my garbage can.
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10-21-2015, 07:58 AM
#1690
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Yeah, looks like something went through and did some "machine work" on your innards. Bad luck man.
I don't think the BE pumps are necessarily bad, just that the QC could be better. Right now I'm paranoid about oil pressure. I've got a Bosch sending unit on my Mocal sandwich plate & a real OPG in the cockpit. There's also a Big Red Light in the dash where the emergency flasher button was, hooked to the OEM sender as a redundant indicator - it comes on when the oil pressure is less than 10 psi. I've also got a mechanical OPG in the engine bay connected to a gallery in the head.
Like I said...paranoid.
Do people dispose of engine blocks?!! (I've got two bare blocks in my garage now from previous fails)
I don't think the BE pumps are necessarily bad, just that the QC could be better. Right now I'm paranoid about oil pressure. I've got a Bosch sending unit on my Mocal sandwich plate & a real OPG in the cockpit. There's also a Big Red Light in the dash where the emergency flasher button was, hooked to the OEM sender as a redundant indicator - it comes on when the oil pressure is less than 10 psi. I've also got a mechanical OPG in the engine bay connected to a gallery in the head.
Like I said...paranoid.
Do people dispose of engine blocks?!! (I've got two bare blocks in my garage now from previous fails)
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10-21-2015, 08:04 AM
#1691
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Clean it up and make a heavy *** coffee table out of it.... gotta wonder what broke/chipped/disintegrated and turned to sand inside the engine - or started with no oil causing bearing failure then debris. Bad luck Lars - dam.
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10-21-2015, 09:44 AM
#1695
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Would have to go up to 84.5mm pistons or something. Right now I have 3 blocks in my garage that are not "good". I have a 4th sitting in a different garage. I don't really need that many so I would like to dump some of the worst ones.
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10-21-2015, 10:37 AM
#1697
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I see no reason not to use that block? replace the bearings, rings and the crank then you have a short block ready.
the cyl walls and pistons don't have damage or you would have posted, right?
The head though you might need to change out, since the cams don't use replaceable bearing surfaces.
the cyl walls and pistons don't have damage or you would have posted, right?
The head though you might need to change out, since the cams don't use replaceable bearing surfaces.
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10-21-2015, 10:53 AM
#1699
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I have seen one stuck relief valve in person, on a 100k mile OEM oil pump, and it happened ~20 miles after a turbo install (oil pan drill/tap). I've never seen a BE pump fail, and I have used/installed several over a several year period.
Lars, is this the first oil pump failure on this motor/block?
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10-21-2015, 10:53 AM
#1700
Everything that you've shown doesn't look great BUT:
--Those oil pump gears/housing are not that bad and are likely not the reason you lost oil pressure
--The two cam caps don't look unusable (maybe its just me?, I've certainly used worse..)
Did you find the source of the pressure loss? I may have missed it.
--Those oil pump gears/housing are not that bad and are likely not the reason you lost oil pressure
--The two cam caps don't look unusable (maybe its just me?, I've certainly used worse..)
Did you find the source of the pressure loss? I may have missed it.
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