Shuiend tries built motor #4, lets see how I break this one - Page 41 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 05-29-2011, 02:26 PM   #801
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I have a 1-2psi drop in the intercooler, but zero inconsistency with heat-soak when the car is moving. I'd take the WG signal as close to the turbo as possible, maybe from the intercooler tank.

I agree with you guys that the ports on just about every boost controller are too small. TiAL guy told me to bore-out the ports and hope for the best. The expensive, fancy, Greddy and Apexi supposedly have larger ports but I don't have that kind of cash nor do I give a ****.
This solenoid has 1/4inch inlets and outlets. It is a bigger version of what DIYAutoTune sells now. I just did not have time to pick it before coming up for the dyno day.

I am going to pick up a much bigger IC in the very near future. I currently have the small Begi one and it is not up to the task. I am debating between sending my current one into Begi and having them make it larger, or getting the Precision 600hp one that Savington raves about. When I get one of those I will definitely get and air port added on.
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Old 05-29-2011, 02:30 PM   #802
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This solenoid has 1/4inch inlets and outlets. It is a bigger version of what DIYAutoTune sells now. I just did not have time to pick it before coming up for the dyno day.

I am going to pick up a much bigger IC in the very near future. I currently have the small Begi one and it is not up to the task. I am debating between sending my current one into Begi and having them make it larger, or getting the Precision 600hp one that Savington raves about. When I get one of those I will definitely get and air port added on.
Show me pics of your chambered ducting. I bet you can make that little BEGi intercooler work. Copying Matt Andrew's set-up is a great idea and I'm going to do a similar design, but inverted.
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Old 05-29-2011, 02:46 PM   #803
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Show me pics of your chambered ducting. I bet you can make that little BEGi intercooler work. Copying Matt Andrew's set-up is a great idea and I'm going to do a similar design, but inverted.
Current ducting is just the stock under tray. On my last run on the dyno my intake temps went up approximately 20degrees and even higher then that when we did several back to back runs at the start.

Now that I have tin snips, rivet gun, and tin I will be doing some better ducting this next week.
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Old 05-29-2011, 04:19 PM   #804
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Current ducting is just the stock under tray. On my last run on the dyno my intake temps went up approximately 20degrees and even higher then that when we did several back to back runs at the start.

Now that I have tin snips, rivet gun, and tin I will be doing some better ducting this next week.
FYI, dyno IAT temps are always higher than the track or highway. Mine are also 20* high according to my log, and ~5-10*+ on the track.
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Old 05-29-2011, 07:54 PM   #805
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here's his before and after.

most improvement was from adjusting his VVT and cleaning up his fueling.



he had a little less, but I didn't get a print out of the run we did that was 3 retarded compared to this.
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Old 05-29-2011, 09:47 PM   #806
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I'm super impressed with that head and the low end HP. Run 18psi through that ******.
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Old 05-30-2011, 01:59 AM   #807
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I'm super impressed with that head and the low end HP. Run 18psi through that ******.
I really want to run 18psi. It will hopefully happen very soon. I will be ordering larger EBC solenoid on Tuesday.
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:58 AM   #808
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just hookup what you have inline with the lower port. i had the same issue with the top port of my MS-v and as soon as i hooked it up to the lower i had boost control.
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Old 05-30-2011, 09:12 AM   #809
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just hookup what you have inline with the lower port. i had the same issue with the top port of my MS-v and as soon as i hooked it up to the lower i had boost control.

we tried that once everything else failed.

I had him setup the solenoid so if the valve failed it would fail to wastegate. So only boost would go to the lower port.

Then the software was setup in a manner that it would allow full boost to reach the upper port. This should raise boost.

and it did. Felt awesome spooling fast up to 215kPa...but no matter if I put the solenoid to 100% or 0% there was no difference. That made me think it couldn't bleed enough boost from the upper port.

So we altered the routing a bit just to try to get any reaction from a fully closed solenoid and fully open to no avail.

My last ditch effect was running it inline to the lower only like an internal wastegate setup, but even then I could only get wastegate, I could raise it above. The solenoid was operational but we were failing.

At least he got a good baseline run. I cleaned the hell out of his fuel map, bumped the timing up a bit, and got his VVT to bump up his low end just a bit and fix it dropping off at 5K. He still has more to make with timing, that was only 18-20* at 10psi. But being 500 miles away he didn't want to push it without being meticulously tuned.

I think his BEGi intake manifold might be robbing him some mid-range TQ, but that top end is great. As soon as he runs 15psi, hell match that of his T25 at 4K and then hit ~300hp...not too shabby on a dyno dynamics, that would be around 336rwhp on a dynojet.

here's my prediction at 15psi:

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Old 05-31-2011, 12:28 PM   #810
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we tried that once everything else failed.

I had him setup the solenoid so if the valve failed it would fail to wastegate. So only boost would go to the lower port.

Then the software was setup in a manner that it would allow full boost to reach the upper port. This should raise boost.

and it did. Felt awesome spooling fast up to 215kPa...but no matter if I put the solenoid to 100% or 0% there was no difference. That made me think it couldn't bleed enough boost from the upper port.

So we altered the routing a bit just to try to get any reaction from a fully closed solenoid and fully open to no avail.

My last ditch effect was running it inline to the lower only like an internal wastegate setup, but even then I could only get wastegate, I could raise it above. The solenoid was operational but we were failing.

At least he got a good baseline run. I cleaned the hell out of his fuel map, bumped the timing up a bit, and got his VVT to bump up his low end just a bit and fix it dropping off at 5K. He still has more to make with timing, that was only 18-20* at 10psi. But being 500 miles away he didn't want to push it without being meticulously tuned.

I think his BEGi intake manifold might be robbing him some mid-range TQ, but that top end is great. As soon as he runs 15psi, hell match that of his T25 at 4K and then hit ~300hp...not too shabby on a dyno dynamics, that would be around 336rwhp on a dynojet.

here's my prediction at 15psi:

the ms3 software doesn't have overboost protection? even my ancient link has that. i used an ingersoll rand solenoid from fm when i tried going ebc. i would get it setup perfect here in corpus (sea level) and when i would go anywhere else it would boost higher, needing a re-tune of the wastegate control settings. PITA. plus even when i did manage to get it set, for some reason it didn't feel any faster at 12psi than 9psi on a manual.

OP, you gonna be drag racing? is that why you want the staged boost control? you know the fix for that right? better tires! besides a little of this is always fun.
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:18 PM   #811
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yes has has overboost. what made you suggest it doesnt?

MS3 has closed loop boost control, it will always be the same level of boost no matter the elevation, once tuned.

He wants to run gear/speed based boost control so he doesn't break traction in 1st and 2nd gears.
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:25 PM   #812
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Can I ask what made these dyno plots? It does not look like a dynojet or dynamics or any other brand plot print out that I am aware of, but I dont know them all. What dyno? Correct or uncorrected numbers? Just curious!
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:27 PM   #813
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I have overboost set at 225kpa right now and I have hit that at around 3800rpms trying to get my EBC working.

I want gear based boost control just because it should be easy to setup once my EBC works.

15x9 6UL and 225 RS3's will hopefully be bought this fall.
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Old 05-31-2011, 02:12 PM   #814
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Another way to get boost control setup would be to T the line to the bottom port and put the solinoid in there to bleed the boost off.

this system wouldnt be as nice though.
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Old 05-31-2011, 02:14 PM   #815
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bleeding off boost to the lower port doesn't make any sense.

the exhaust pressure would have to overcome the spring pressure AND the boost pressure on the top to open the wastegate.
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Old 05-31-2011, 02:24 PM   #816
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the top port would be open to ATM in this configuration.
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Old 05-31-2011, 02:44 PM   #817
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we tried that, we couldn't bleed enough out of the solenoid to increase boost over wastegate. and I posted such in post #809. The GM solenoid he's using has port the size of my pee hole.
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Old 05-31-2011, 02:47 PM   #818
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Is MS like the AEM system, do you have to setup the valve frequency to get the proper PW and stuff?

i.e. is the solinoid compatable with the computer?

that is the most basic way to control boost and it 100% should work.
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Old 05-31-2011, 02:52 PM   #819
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You make me want to punch you with a ban hammer.

the valve was set to 19.5Hz.

In all configurations I tried: 0% duty cycle and 100% duty cycle.

This is fully opening and fully closing the valve. in all the configurations we tried, we would only have full boost or wastegate. there was no change to the boost output if the valve was opened or closed.

I tested the valve operation and it worked, but I was unable to control the boost.
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Old 05-31-2011, 02:56 PM   #820
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Can I ask what made these dyno plots? It does not look like a dynojet or dynamics or any other brand plot print out that I am aware of, but I dont know them all. What dyno? Correct or uncorrected numbers? Just curious!
Dyno Dynamics. Uncorrected. Reads about 12% lower than a Dynojet.

Plots were done in Microsoft Excel using raw data.
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