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cant wait to get a closer look at the usefullness of a nb6 intake vs usdm.. maybee some dyno numbers. volume numbers? I always felt the 1.6 intake did not have enough plenum for 7K RPM
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Originally Posted by emilio700
(Post 1528555)
Same rules here. One move is pretty much the norm across the globe. That driver, on his provisional (learners permit) license no less, had the audacity to tell Sonny (pro coach, 3x national champ, multi lap record holder) "That's what racing is, get used to it" or some such malarkey.
Said driver has been contacted nad "talked to" by racing organization after chief steward saw the video. I believe the race directors comment to Sonny after viewing the video was.. well, lets just say the RD might not have been so patient had he been in Sonny's seat. |
Originally Posted by VagaXt
(Post 1528153)
We measured the lobes and checked the casting marks on the camshaft today.
NB6 intake (B6KP): 7.25 mm NB6 exhaust (B6MC): 8.25 mm For reference, USDM NA6 intake: 7.86 mm USDM NA6 exhaust: 7.9 mm Checked the timing belt for misalignment, but the timing looks good. USDM NA6 manifold and auto trans TB showed up last week and visually compared it to the NB6 manifold. Looks like the TB on the NA6 manifold mounts further back than the NB6. Also noted is the downward angle the NA6 manifold has compared to the more parallel to the ground angle shown with the NB6. Can you confirm if the TB mounting pattern for the NB6 manifold is the same as the 1.8? Being able to add a Junk2 TB to an NA6 might be nice. |
Confirmed; it is the same. OEM NB6 and NB8 TB assemblies are identical.
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Originally Posted by HarryB
(Post 1528615)
Confirmed; it is the same. OEM NB6 and NB8 TB assemblies are identical.
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Yup. Those of you 1.6 guys wanting a Junk2 throttle body, get you an NB6 intake manifold. Also gets rid of what i-don't-even-know-what-the-hell-that-crap-is IAC system.
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Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1528626)
Yup. Those of you 1.6 guys wanting a Junk2 throttle body, get you an NB6 intake manifold. Also gets rid of what i-don't-even-know-what-the-hell-that-crap-is IAC system.
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Originally Posted by emilio700
(Post 1528151)
So far at least, it appears starting with a freshly rebuilt NA6 motor is probably a better choice. While you are rebuilding, shave block to bring CR to about 10.0:1 while retaining squish. If you have budget leftover, deshroud and bowl blend. That should, base don our past experience, get you to about 135whp on corn. Meanwhile, we'll swap cams and start A/B testing intake manifolds. Also ordered a JR header (4:2:1) to A/B against the RB (4:1). For science. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ad90b5e2de.jpg And for a little future reference if it may help someone, same motor with port matched T3 manifold and black top 4age ITB'S , 100mm trumpets with ITG filter installed. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d999a87b28.jpg No gains were found with cam timing adjustments as well on either setup. |
Originally Posted by gt5759
(Post 1528675)
Pretty accurate assessment. Here is a fresh NA6, .050 off the head, stock valves, stock 1993 cams, super singles, RB header, 45* intake tube, haltech, E85.
And for a little future reference if it may help someone, same motor with port matched T3 manifold and black top 4age ITB'S , 100mm trumpets with ITG filter installed. No gains were found with cam timing adjustments as well on either setup. Emilio; any reason you specify shaving block vs head? Don't the stock pistons protrude ~.010" at TDC with a stock deck height? |
Whatever method preserves squish. I'm not too familiar with the B6. With BP's, it's easier to deck it. Less machine work to preserve squish and deshroud areas that way.
In either case, stick below 10.3:1 or so for CA91, 10.4:1 for 93. If only E85, then 11.0:1 works nicely. B6 makes a good enduro motor as it's pretty easy to get it to run the 2hr max driver stint length for most sanctioning bodies. But it'll only do that on gas, thus the conservative CR for enduro. We have not pulled the head and hope not to need to. |
Adapting NB Throttle Body to NA6 USDM Intake Manifold
In the quest for more power, we are going to try using a NA6 USDM intake manifold. To avoid unnecessary splicing of wires on Miller's engine harness, we are going to adapt the NB throttle body to the NA6 intake manifold. Here some mock up and progress photos.
Top two holes of the TB and IM line up perfectly, but some air channels on the NB throttle body look like they will cause vacuum leaks. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a8f8df7a50.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d343de3e94.jpg The bottom two holes do not line up with each other. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f346f47872.jpg Not only bore hole sizes are different between the NB TB and the NA6 IM, the centers are offset from each other. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...cdea38bc6e.jpg John getting to work on porting. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...22ca87ef6a.jpg Beautiful smoothness. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...70c0dfe006.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...97cb1f1855.jpg There's a problem trying to seal up potential vacuum leaks, but another gasket can fix this. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...eb73c0e5b0.jpg There's the second gasket mounted backwards on top of the first one. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...37759e4a8e.jpg Note that we had to slot one of the holes for the NB TB to mate to the NA6 IM. A nut and bolt will work here to clamp everything down. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d670284b8f.jpg NB TB is mounted and mocked up! https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...143eb0c1c1.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...498dac2660.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...189cfa5c15.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a5a6dd6363.jpg Mmm.. ported! https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5d7ae50e54.jpg |
NA6 Intake Manifold Install to NB6 Block
Modified NA6 manifold ready for install. We are crossing fingers that it may make more power.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...16051d8b17.jpg It seems the JDM B6 has two water ports that connect with the intake manifold. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2ac00ba3ce.jpg Though the gasket has holes for both water ports, both USDM NA6 and JDM NB6 intake manifolds have the trapezoidal water port blocked. Both manifolds have the circular water port to allow coolant to flow to both the NA6 and NB throttle bodies. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...774f394492.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...17090c6dc4.jpg Backsides of the JDM NB6 (left) and the USDM NA6 (right) intake manifolds. It is interesting that the runners on the NB6 IM is more squared off than the smoother, wider radius of the NA6 IM's runners. Maybe the smoother, wider radius means more air flow and more power? We will find out on the dyno soon. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...1de0600ac1.jpg Side views of both JDM NB6 (left) and USDM NA6 (right) IMs with NB throttle bodies mocked up. Note the longer and straighter approach to the plenum from the TB for the USDM NA6 IM. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a739dbf639.jpg Close up of the USDM NA6 IM. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...774734a31c.jpg Close up of the JDM NB6 IM. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4c4035b5dc.jpg Handmade idle air control block off plate for the USDM NA6 manifold. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e78946233e.jpg 59 mm inner diameter for the TB opening of the JDM NB6 IM. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5e5600de0f.jpg 55.5 mm inner diameter for the TB opening of the USDM NA6 IM. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2d70874509.jpg Verified: NA6 and NB6 IM gaskets are the same. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...15bffda468.jpg USDM NA6 dressed and ready for install. 1.6L fuel rails are interchangeable between manifolds. Also, 3 vacuum line bungs had to be capped. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d16773c72f.jpg Swapping TB cables because of the different TB bracket mounting locations between the NA6 and NB6 IMs. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f198f493e5.jpg New TB angle means new intake pipe routing. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...1846f2f42e.jpg New intake routing completed. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b74eb23bdc.jpg |
Shorter runner length should tune the RPM range slightly higher, possibly at the cost of low-mid range.
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Mazda marketing literature from NB6 era states that it was tuned for more torque. The B6 was already an archaic design in 2001. Tough to meet emission standards. No real reason to tune it for power when anyone that could afford power would just by the BP version.
Of note were the advertised peak power rpm of the 90bhp NB6 at 6200rpm, same we saw with ours in stock form. Swapped cams and still 6200rpm peak power. That is all intake manifold influence I think. For reference, a stock NA6 makes peak power closer to 7000rpm. The two key items of the NB6 responsible for it's meager output were cams and intake manifold. Changed both, Dyno this afternoon. We'll see. |
Can't wait for the update man.
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Interested in your treatment of the throttle butterfly screws. Care to elaborate on the thinking there?
My collection of busted shafts and lost screws would like to know ... |
Originally Posted by Gee Emm
(Post 1531383)
Interested in your treatment of the throttle butterfly screws. Care to elaborate on the thinking there?
My collection of busted shafts and lost screws would like to know ... |
Oh well
No joy. Made a few more whp with the NA6 IM and RB header but still way below what we need to be competitive in ST6. Motor, at 6% leakdown is just too tired.
Of note is how much less the RB fell off after the power peak. JR vs RB header. In the past, with much bigger cams we saw the 4:2:1 JR worked better than the RB. As the cams get milder, the RB seems to have more total area. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e6073bd994.jpg NA6 intake manifold vs NB6. We expected to see the power peak more than the 150rpm we see here. Also expected another 8-10whp, not 2whp :p. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0c7b91120f.jpg I made a lot of pulls doing sweeps on injection timing, ignition timing and AFR on each hardware combo. So each was optimized. Based on the 125whp we made with a Mazda NA6 crate engine, E85 and RB header, I think we would hit 135whp or so with the Kelford 203B cams. Sonny will decide if he wants to put a BP back in or not. |
Man.... y'all sure that dyno isn't reading low here recently?
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Nuts :(
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