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Your Basic NA T25 Build
I've been lurking long enough and figure it's time to start a build thread, so here goes. This is my 1996 that I've had for a few years, and finally got all of the parts together to boost it. The whole goal of this car was to build it on a budget but build it decently. I wanted the car to be comfortable enough to DD in the summertime, and fun at autocross and the (very) rare track day. The goal wasn't crazy power, so if I wind up with a quick spooling 200 HP I'd be happy.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...7fc398e399.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...04c40af8f6.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4c63651767.jpg I had never really modified a car before this so I worked my way up to this by doing the basics, upgraded sway bars, suspension, tb/wp and generally trying to keep up on maintenance/appearance items. I scrounged up the below items from various places since pretty much the day I got the car, learning from build threads I've seen here.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...299f94f448.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...73d990caa1.jpg The PO of this car was obsessed with red and painted/replaced everything they could and it's been a slow process to get rid of it. During the offseason I'll make better heat management, get a stronger clutch, and learn as much as I can about EBC so I can get the most out of the car come spring. |
Originally Posted by festersays
(Post 1518342)
I do notice boost falling off up top but I expected it with this turbo.
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Originally Posted by HmoobDude
(Post 1518443)
Might depend where your wastegate is plumbed into. Check the sticky here: https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...eed-ebc-47532/
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Where are you located? I see the Akron Sports Car Club watermark.
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I'm from the Cleveland area also, about 30 minutes west. I try and get to a few of the ASCC autocross events at Dragway 42 every season but I was a little disappointed about the number they hosted last year. It seems like they'll have a lot more planned in the upcoming season which is exciting. It's good to find people local on here!
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I grew up a couple miles south of Dragway 42 but haven't been to an autocross event there yet. I am hoping to sometime this year. Maybe I could tag along sometime with you to get my feet wet.
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Sounds good, I'll let you know. My wedding is this summer so I will have my hands pretty full. I hope to squeeze in a few though.
This might be the quickest thread on MT.net to need engine work after a mild turbo setup. I compression tested the engine earlier this year and #3 was down a little bit, but not enough to make me action it at the time. Now I am still seeing the issue of oil leaking passed out of the turbine seal and am thinking it's due to excessive blowby/crankcase pressure. I know it's not a scientific test by any means but I removed the oil cap at idle and felt quite a bit of air puffing out. Aside from adding a 323 gtx PCV valve I've made no other modifications to help the engine relieve pressure better. I think it's time for a leakdown test to see what it is exactly so I can get it repaired. I've been dealing with a slight miss at idle also and although the stock ECU idled perfect, I wouldn't doubt it's related. Regardless of the fix I'm planning to add a catch can at some point. Plugs are brand new. Potato video attached. To keep myself busy I've added a DIY air box (thanks Shibby for the help) and added a flex section into my downpipe. At some point in time a PO had hacked off the part of it that was supposed to slip in, and it's been held together with ghetto fixes temporarily just so I could drive. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e62670ecb4.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...531754d7e2.jpg |
POs are the worst. Good looking airbox there - yours looks much better than mine. Glad I could help a bit.
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I did a compression test today and here's the results..
Dry 1. 200 2. 170 3. 200 4. 180 Wet 1. 220 2. 225 3. 250 4. 300 (went off the gauge?) Unfortunately the engine was cold but I did turn the engine over 15 times for each cylinder to try to stay consistent. I'm not sure how well I did the test a few years back, but I swore it was cylinder 3 that had been low. I bought the HF leak down tester and am a little disappointed that I can only use it to about 15 psi but I shouldn't have expected it to be great. I will measure actual numbers but so far with just putting 15-20 psi through each cylinder, I without a doubt heard air escaping through the most through the tailpipe (exhaust valves), oil filler cap (rings) and ever so slightly on the intake (intake valves) on one cylinder. I'm still interested in the results from the leak down test but the compression test results don't look phenomenal. I keep tossing around the best idea on how to fix it. I want an el cheapo-depot solution because I need to be spending dollars on the wedding, not the car at the moment. If I can find one in good health, I'm probably going to swap another 1.8 from a Miata or ideally if I can find one from a Protege, Escort GT, etc, then that might be the move (read, cheap). The local pull-a-part shows they have multiple Proteges on hand so I will likely pay them a visit to see what's up. |
Was the engine warmed up before comp. test? Those #'s don't look too bad to me, total % spread a little big,(high to low), but I'v seen lower #'s in very nice running , non-oil burning 1.8's. Your issues may be elsewhere.
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Did you also do it with all spark plugs removed and with the throttle open?
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Do you have a restrictor in the turbo oil feed line?
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Originally Posted by tomrev
(Post 1524065)
Was the engine warmed up before comp. test? Those #'s don't look too bad to me, total % spread a little big,(high to low), but I'v seen lower #'s in very nice running , non-oil burning 1.8's. Your issues may be elsewhere.
Originally Posted by HmoobDude
(Post 1524068)
Did you also do it with all spark plugs removed and with the throttle open?
Originally Posted by borka
(Post 1524071)
Do you have a restrictor in the turbo oil feed line?
This where the drain is plumbed to. And yes I did clean the pan before putting it back together, this was just a test fit. :party: https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...501c2d247d.jpg Oil drain clearance to oil pickup. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...27d5083acc.jpg Oil drain location, capped off for NA operation at the time. While I'm at it here are some other photos of the car throughout the years. Plus cat pics. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...05b5f1707f.jpg Botched oil pan seal from PO. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ee7c1905d6.jpg Fixed. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...09225fdab6.jpg Supervising when I trimmed for the roll bar. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...7cf014a974.jpg Rando that stopped by when pulling the engine one night. |
Considering the bottom end is making halfway decent compression, I think that the problem I'm facing is either in the head or the turbo itself. I'm still noticing oil smoke from the center section (turbine side only) and oil smoke on the exhaust. I even switched to a 1mm restrictor from a 1.5mm restrictor and still see a constant smoke from the tailpipe. I see it most shortly after startup, and after idling for quite some time. I know that sounds like valve stem seals and they're probably overdue also but this turbo shouldn't really require a restrictor in the first place and so I'm thinking crank case pressure is forcing it passed the seals. Or maybe I screwed some part of the turbo rebuild process up. I did do a leak down test with the cheapo Harbor Freight tool and got..
1. 40% 2. 65% 3. 100% (leaking badly on intake side, see below) 4. 15% I think this data is a little skewed because I was setting the piston to TDC, pressurizing it, and not turning the crank back and forth slightly to get the best seal. I'm going to redo the test this weekend hopefully. That hasn't stopped me from driving. I did some tuning now that I have the wastegate plumbed to the intake side, and did a virtual dyno to see where it's at. The richness you see up top has been tuned out now. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2a79c83d1d.jpg I also added a catch can. I scrounged Amazon and found this for $17 bucks. It's identical to the Mishimoto Compact and so far has only caught a little oil. Not a bad deal considering the Mishimoto branded one is over $100. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4039766649.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b099c0b64c.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8715bef06a.jpg |
Something off with those leak down #'s If it would run at all with that much leakage, I'd be surprised!
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A little longer than anticipated but I've got way better leakdown test results. Doing this at 100psi on a 6 gallon pancake compressor sucks, by the way. I am only as smart as the tool, so maybe you guys can help me interpret what these leakdown numbers actually mean. I am most interested in the hissing coming from other cylinders. I was checking the coolant for bubbles, intake, exhaust, and oil cap.
1. 4% leakage, heard from the oil cap (rings) 2. 4% leakage, heard from the #4 cylinder spark plug hole, also from the exhaust pipe 3. 6% leakage, heard from #4 cylinder spark plug hole, also from the exhaust pipe 4. 5% leakage, heard from #3 cylinder spark plug hole, also from exhaust pipe I get that air hissing from the oil cap and tailpipe indicate worn rings and exhaust valves but these numbers don't seem bad. Is there something more concerning to look for with the fact that I'm hearing the air hissing from other cylinders? Just to reiterate I'm having oil burn from the tailpipe and CHRA, and it may be related that I've got a light miss at idle. My tune had idle running at about 10 degrees timing but bumping it to around 15 degrees has made the idle misfire happen a lot less frequently. Maybe batch fire is contributing to this too. I'm starting to think that maybe the turbo is part of the problem itself. I found a thread on a turbo mopar forum that describes almost exactly the problem I'm having, and admittedly I didn't even think to take a pick and clean out the oil galley that allows oil to drain from the journal bearing to the oil drain line itself when I rebuilt it. I don't want to disassemble it but I think that's next on my checklist. MT won't let me link to the forum, but this example shows the amount of gunk that was removed from a turbo drain oil galley. https://i279.photobucket.com/albums/...01453Large.jpg In the meantime, I found an Escort GT with 140k on it, and the owner only wants $300 bucks for the whole car due to a slipping automatic trans. It's had a recent TB service too. If the engine checks out I am going to pick it up as a potential backup/spare and part the rest of the valuables (if there are any) from it. With parting it and scrap value on top, I'll at least have a free to me engine with the only cost being time. :party: As a side note, if anyone needs a leakdown tester on a budget, the harbor freight tester is pretty useless out of the box. The operating pressure of the second gauge is only about 10-15 psi and that's sort of good enough to hear leaks, but not quantify the data. I found a 160 psi 1/8 npt gauge at harbor freight and threaded it in instead for the second gauge. This allowed me to bring the working pressure up to 100 psi like you're supposed to, and allowed me to get meaningful results. Just a heads up for anyone else who may have it, and wants it to work better. |
Bah.
So I went ahead and pulled the turbo off and checked to see if there was anything internally blocking the drain, and it looks great. I'm at a loss. My bachelor party is next month and included a 'fun' drive that I was planning on taking the car to. Suggestions to check for other items are welcome. The escort I found fell through and I found a 95' engine locally that I may just get to use if I can't figure this out soon. By the way, the compressor side of the turbo is bone dry. Nothing is getting passed that seal. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2b64a1d34.jpeg The old piston ring I got with the gpop rebuild kit, looks like it seals good enough. I replaced this with a step gap style to try and help. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5c3aeac7f.jpeg Plenty of room for oil to exit. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e66d7d82c.jpeg Another shot with light being shined into the drain itself. So much room. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...9f0ca7ed0.jpeg Evidence of the weeping. |
Update time.
I've been doing nothing to the car other than improving the tune, and putting as many miles on it as I can. It's a ton of fun even at about 150 hp. I did a few street pulls against my buddies stock Fiesta ST and it for sure held it's own. Took the car for about a 4 hour road trip down to southeastern Ohio and it didn't skip a beat other than burning some oil during overrun in the twisties. I have since removed the pop rivet from my -3an feed line and haven't noticed any more smoking at idle, but still plan on opening up the valve cover more so blowby can be more easily vented. The only real issues I've had with the car so far have been tune related, and the nuts that hold the turbo on have been backing themselves off after more spirited drives. I mainly will street drive this car with a handful of autocross events a year so I may try and get away with the Nissan studs (14064-40P01) and a stage 8 fastener kit. The other day I noticed this: https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b09bdbae46.jpg Which upon fixing, resulted in this: https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...17b3a3c2c6.jpg So that sucks. I'll likely be ordering that new hardware and doing my best to extract the broken stud on the car. In other news, I scored a deal on a FM1 happy meal which will be going in over the next few months. The sooner the better, because my stock clutch has been doing great but I know it's only a matter of time. I will for sure resurface this before it goes in. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...afc2afdfcd.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4ae05512a1.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ab464d77dd.jpg |
So I ordered the MT.net approved Nissan part number for m8 turbo studs and installed a few. When I put on the new stage8 hardware, I get just a few turns of thread engagement on the stud. Blah. Not nearly enough for me to feel good about it. Maybe my manifolds stud holes are chamfered to the point that the collars on the studs allow them to sit too much now. I don’t know. Regardless, these Nissan studs are just short of 1.25” and I need closer to 1.4”. Fab9 has a kit with 1.31” of thread that MAY work isn’t Inconel. And my intention was to go Inconel so I’d never touch this again. Does anyone have a measurement on how long a m8 TSE Inconel stud is? I’ve checked and the FM Inconel stud is 33mm or 1.29”. I just want to drive.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...76f357d7e.jpeg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...1f8daf8c2.jpeg |
My M8 TSE inconel stud is just under 1.143" according to my calipers, let's call it 1.1425".
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Thank you Curly, you da man for getting those measurements. I know that it’s not the ideal way to fix it, but I did find a vendor called Yez Racing out of Australia advertising inconel studs in a length that will work. It was honestly pretty cheap to get them over the pond, about 60 bucks total shipped. The website wasn’t too clear on exactly what material they were so I asked them to reach out to the vendor, and they came back saying the studs are inconel 625. I know FM uses 718 and I’m not sure what TSE uses. Regardless I think the heat specifications for both 718 and 625 are similar. Not sure on strength. I haven’t had time to compare that and other specs. This will still be mainly a street car so I think it’ll be fine. I’m in Maui for a few weeks and will post a review of em’ once home.
Edit: I got curious. Inconel 625 has got the yield strength of a grade 8.8 fastener, the tensile strength of a grade 10.9 fastener, and is good to 1800F. Inconel 718 is heat treated making it much stronger. For the street, it should work. |
Update time. Since my last post, I have the new inconel studs installed and resbond in, stage8 fasteners set up and in use. I finally got my idle to a point where I’m super happy with it - all of the CLI settings are working, idle advance is working, and for poverty MS2e I don’t think it could be a whole lot better. So that’s finally another thing that’s sorted out.
Since the turbo went in, I’ve been rolling on really old Nitto NeoGen tires that have seen winter and snow. I’ve tried to get by with them, but they’re just no fun anymore especially at autocross even N/A. So I found a deal on some Conti ECS’s that’ll get me by on the street and should be way more fun at autocross. Which speaking of, the next I plan to go to is next week. So between then and now.. tires need mounted, and I need to replace the tired stock clutch Now here’s where it gets silly. I needed a winter beater.. Here she is. I got a hell of a good deal and the drivetrain is in great shape. It’s got pretty terminal rust and I’ll be surprised if it’s front frame rails make it until spring, but besides that it’s been good to beat around town. How comfortable a stock NB is makes me really wonder if I made the best choices with compromises/stiffness/etc. with my NA.. turbo fun will always win but I guess this is a great reason to keep two cars around. :party: https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a19d9d67a.jpeg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...539ab10ca.jpeg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...caf474f64.jpeg |
Conti ECS are the way to go for a DD Miata. They perform pretty well in the rain, too. I am very pleased with my set. The one downside is that they can't be used in lower temps. If you live up north it's no biggie as you'd swap to winter tires, though.
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Oh yeah, I'm already finding that I like them a lot better then the old worn out tires. The grip is nice for the street and not bad at autocross either. I had these road force balanced and my highway shimmy is completely gone... It's like I'm driving a different car.
I'll try and edit some pictures in later, but I ended up doing my clutch job over night Friday, and drove straight to PittRace Saturday morning for autox. Keep in mind I am NOT a mechanic so I was a little worried that I might break down... But all was well. The FM1 happy meal is great and very easy to drive. Being sleep deprived at autox is not something I'd recommend, but it was still a ton of fun. We did a go kart session there also which was way more fun then the electric karting places we have around town. Several things I'm noticing as weak points in my car... The suspension. I feel like it's TOO stiff for the street/autocross. I have FM Vmaxx coilovers, RB front and rear bars (solid) and the matching endlinks. I know I have a lot to learn about driving but I'm getting the car to understeer in some corners and I hate it. I feel like I should be replacing the rear bar with a stock one and seeing what difference that makes.. Along with double checking the preload on the front bar to make sure it's neutral. The other thing is burning oil out of the compressor housing. I hate it. When changing the clutch I was able to see where (again!) the turbo is weeping oil passed the hotside seal and leaking out the bottom. Occasionally I'll leave a huge trail of smoke just driving out of a parking lot. I've rebuilt the turbo (myself) and replaced the hotside seal more then once. I don't think it's due to blowby/backpressure. I think I'll deal with it for now but over the wintertime I want to replace the turbo. I'm still on a pretty tight budget for this car so I may find another used nissan turbo or if there's a chinacharger worth considering I'd even be open to trying that. I'll do more homework on options. |
I believe the general consensus is a bigger front bar and stock rear bar or even no rear bar for autocross.
Disclaimer: I don't autocross (yet) this is just what I've read on here. |
I went ahead and did no rear bar at the last autocross event and my times dropped significantly, and I liked the way the car behaved a lot better also. I'm pretty impressed too with the Continental ECS tires I got awhile back, I feel like this was my first real opportunity to push them and they didn't disappoint. I haven't had an opportunity to drive on tires with serious grip, but until I can swing a dedicated autocross wheel/tire setup I think then I think these are a great compromise tire for me. Here's a pic from the event.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...619126bf22.jpg Going back and forth from driving the FM VMAXX NA to the bone stock NB has made me really want to switch it up to a DIY Bilstien build on the NA turbo car. I want a setup that's super plush on the street but can hold it's own at autocross. I dunno if that's asking too much, but over the winter I'll try. Calling @sixshooter , your original 400/350 Hard S setup seemed like exactly what I'm looking for and I think I'll try and replicate it. I've got a lot more homework to do but that setup plus stock sway bars might be what I'm looking for. Other than disconnecting the rear bar, I've just been driving the car as much as I can before it's too cold out. I turned the boost up to 10 psi and dialed in the fuel to accommodate it. Man is it fun. Over the winter, I think new valve stem seals are in order.. If I leave my car idling for awhile, or a really long stop light / train, I'll get smoke out of the tailpipe like this. To rule it out, I checked the bottom of my turbo again and it's no longer weeping oil so I think that oil seal finally decided to start cooperating.. Maybe it just needed to boost more. :party: https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a306524dd7.jpg |
I'm not sure what rates the VMAXX have f/r but that can effect how the sways work or hurt the balance.
I recently went to Xidas and haven't put my Bilsteins up for sale yet. 550/350 wasn't plush like 400/275 I had previously. With the FM sways front firmest and rear softest 400/275 was balanced. If using a stock rear bar I would change to 400/300 to maintain balance. There's nothing wrong with using the FM bars front and rear as long as the spring rates are matched to the bar rates to create neutral conditions in cornering. |
Well in an unexpected turn of events, my job is taking me from Ohio to Georgia for 2 years. The pro to this is I'll be pretty close to Road Atlanta, and the one huge con I can see is that I probably will need to pass emissions due to where I'll be living in Georgia. Even if I stayed in Ohio I'd need to deal with emissions, but I'd have the comfort of my garage and all of my tools to make the hardware and ECU changes I need to. My car is a 96' and so this will be the last time it needs emissions done. I'm weighing my options on what the heck to do and the immediate thoughts I have are...
1. Is running a voodoo box REALLY that bad and ok to deal with on low boost? I only run about 8lbs as is and it'd be in a sense an 'easy' button since I could pass emissions and not have a ton of extra wrenching to do (this will be my daily, I don't want to mess with the uninstall/reinstall injectors/o2/etc). 2. Would it be super suspect if I completed the emissions dance in Ohio, registered the car at a family members address in Ohio, and just had all mismatched addresses on registration/drivers license to be able to keep the megasquirt in? 3. Maybe I should sell both of these cars for a NC that will be way more comfortable and reliable of a DD in that type of heat? Or another fun car? 4. Find a shady inspections shop in GA that's megasquirt friendly? 5. Partout? 6. ?? This is a bittersweet crossroads I wasn't really ready for but at the same time it'll be a good way to get out of state and see a different perspective. |
Where in Atlanta is the job
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The job is in Duluth, really close to Johns Creek. Looking into it more there's only several counties that require emissions and go figure where my job is going to be, most of the surrounding counties require it. We visited down there looking for where we want to rent and that area we like just happens to be outside of the emissions testing area... So I may have lucked out. :x:
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Wow. So, I can hardly believe I haven't been here in 2 years. A lot has changed. +1 kid, -1 house, and the new house build is underway now. As far as car updates I don't have much. Being a dad, good husband, and finally finishing my bachelors degree trumped driving, tinkering, all that. The car although neglected over the last little while, still runs like a beast. I've thought about selling it or trading up to a NC for the comfort, quietness of it. Who knows. Maybe one day I'll actually do it, but the car is still just too much fun to get rid of.
Anyway, now that I have time I wanted to post an update about some work I did a few years back that so far has stood up to the test of time. My car had some rust bubbles starting in the usual rear rocker area. I don't have access to welding tools or the skill but feel like more info should be out there about a non-welding fix that's miles better than foam and bondo. I wanted to get it taken care of before anything worse happened. Here's beginning state. Attachment 228340 Once I peeled that back, this is what was underneath. Mostly surface rust, which was nice to see. Attachment 228341 I got going with the flap disk and got it to this state. Attachment 228342 So here's where we stray from the normal weld in your patch method. I cut a backer piece of steel, and used SEM auto bonding adhesive to 'stick' it in place. I think the product was SEM 39747. The black paint is POR15 just to seal the surface as best as possible. Where I sanded down to bare metal was so the panel bond would have something fresh to adhere to just in case the POR15 had some adhesion issue. Attachment 228343 The next step I took was bending a custom patch panel. This failed miserably as you'll see in a little bit. I have no experience bending metal and most often when I need to, I get a vice and BFH and call it a day. I dunno. Maybe if I had more patience this would have gone better, I'm sure it could have. Anyway, onto the pics. While the panel bond was drying, I added some screws to keep things firmly in place and to hopefully make sure this thing stays put forever. Attachment 228344 Once dry I added a layer of bondo to smooth things out. I wanted to wait for another day to actually texture it and paint, but didn't want to leave the bondo bare. I'm no body guy but have heard that bondo can absorb water and turn to mush. I added a layer of glossy black and it exposed this issue. The panel was NOT flat with the rest of the car. You can see the reflection where there was an additional ridge where there shouldn't have been in the rocker. I contemplated if I cared. I did. Attachment 228345 After tearing the old panel off, I actually went and found a rusted out shell nearby. I brought my angle grinder and cut a patch from that cars rocker, but further up where rot doesn't really take place as easily. This was a perfect way to get a patch that fit like a glove. Below is back to the same state with the new patch. Not pictured are the screws I added to hold it all together while drying. Attachment 228346 And... this unfortunately is where I don't have a 'finished' pic. But. The last steps of the process were adding a layer of bondo to smooth it all out. For texture, I tried 'hammered' paint, and didn't think it was a passable match. I did more digging over on m.net and found that another SEM product worked well. SEM 39793 'Heavy Texture Chip Guard". The thing I'll say about this is that the application for this stuff can be tricky. It's basically a solvent with the 'texture' added into it. So that means if you end up spraying it over a painted surface, you need to be really careful. I did a few test sprays on the first patch panel I made and going heavy turned the entire thing to goop. I actually called SEM and talked to a rep about it, and they recommended very light coats over already painted surfaces. This actually worked. I will try and grab a photo tomorrow of the finished product how it sits today, 2 years later. Till then, this pic from autocross the other day that shows the side I worked on will have to do. Attachment 228347 All in all, I'll say that this works so well that it'd be tough to even tell there was work done. I'm not trying to advocate that this should replace welding patch panels on for this repair, but if you're like me and don't have the access or ability to weld then it's a good alternative. |
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