Braineack

iTrader: (62)

how come it's called compassion when you want to spend other people's money?

The Driver

^ where you educated in a private school, or a public one?

Up to the 8th grade I went to a Private prep school, while my parents tax dollars were been used in the public schools/district I didn't attend.

I went back to a private school (coed this time, thank GOD) in the 10th grade, until I was kicked out, and back to public for 11th and 12th.

My parents never once bitched about their tax dollars helping others, it is what civilized people are supposed to do, unless one lives in a vacuum.

Art

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Braineack

iTrader: (62)

civilized people or tribal people?

help through coercion or compassion?

in a free society, men should be free to live for themselves.

The Driver

Again, how were you educated, public, or private school?
In a free society, those who can't help themselves, should not have to worry about survival.

Did your home builder get subsidies, to build your home or subdivision, by your city, county or state?

I know the fuel you use, is subsidize, in liu of gas & oil companies getting all kinds of tax rebates a political subsidies. I should know, I spent 7 years in Government Regulatory oil and gas, listening to their executives moan from golf course conference calls.

Then there's the whole agro business model, where corn, soy and other farmers gets all kinds of subsidies. But heaven forbid, we offer subsidies to individuals.

I have had the good luck, that my no one in my inmediate family, has lost EVERYTHING, due to lack of money to pay for healthcare. But, I've met people that have lost everything, I truly hope that no one close to you does, or you won't be making any effort to compare about compassion or coercion?

DNMakinson

iTrader: (3)

Farm subsidies is indeed a piece of work. That is no reason to give more. We should just stop things like sugar price supports.

Also, How do we know what the price of something in the medical services is. It's all a game. I just had surgery. Anesthesiologist charges $1000. Insurance company has a contract and subtracts $700 and pays $275, and I pay $25.

So what price is being quoted in the studies? $1000, or $300?

The point made about controlling our own health through diet and excercise. The present "insurance" industry, whether private companies following rules dictated by government, or directly the government so muddies the water between Dr., patient, costs, procedures; that we are indeed divorced from the ability to make informed decisions. How can we look at cost / benefit ratios, even for diet vs pills, when the pills are subsidized through out work "insurance", and procedures are somewhere between $1000 and $300 (per my above example).

Sentic

iTrader: (1)

Well, to be excellent at anything, you really need to like what you do. More pay doesn't change that fact. From time to time I meet doctors that are obviously in it for the money. excellent bed side manners as a rule, many of them are not up to par on skills though.
We do have some fluency in our [sorry, a few hours went by as some friends showed up for a barbecue] salaries, for instance, GP's make more on a resident / attending level compared to internal medicine / gen. surgery . This is mainly due to supply and demand.
Some of the discussion after i left is going over my head I'm afraid. A hammer shouldn't cost 25k$. And that saline bag is the same, produced in the same factory to the same standards, just shipped to a different place.

The Driver

DAMN good post, Excellent!

Art

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Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

The costs of regulatory compliance in a medical manufacturing context are non-trivial.

Ryan_G

iTrader: (8)

Why are the only 2 options being discussed single payer or what the US currently has in place? There are plenty of universal healthcare structures that work and are not single payer. Universal Healthcare just means everyone is covered. It does not mean it has to be single payer. I suggest you all watch the medical triage YouTube series on various healthcare systems around the world. I'll start you off with France since it's regarded as the best system overall from a $$ : patient outcome ratio.


There are plenty of other styles to choose from.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

There is a fourth option. It's not a popular one, but it has its basis on the fact that the retail price of healthcare began to diverge sharply from the cost of healthcare when health insurance began to be used for health-maintenance.

Ask yourself what would happen to the price of an oil change if everyone started using their state-mandated car insurance to pay for oil changes?

DNMakinson

iTrader: (3)

/\ 40 poscats to Joe for this. Hence why I tend to put 'insurance' in quotes. There is a lot to be said for personal responsibility coupled with actual insurance.

Now that we have legal marijuana, welfare and SNAP, we only need to add universal healthcare and we can let all of Colorado become the equivalent of a 19th century English opium den. Already some communities in said state are giving one way bus tickets to LA, to the homeless.

Sentic

iTrader: (1)

This man speaks fast.

The Driver

I've lived in CO, for seven years. Please provide a link of those one way bus tix to Los Angeles, as this is the first I hear of this.

Crime has been in a upswing for about 7-8 months, mostly in Metro Denver. But the truth is that right after recreational MJ was legalized, the crime across the state, dropped 15-20% across the board.

BTW, I don't partake, but I have many friends who do, which include: business owners, consultants, corporate executives, teachers, lawyers; among others. CO is NOT the equivalent of an English Opium den. BTW, when was the last time you visited CO?

I was in Greenville, Spartanburg and Taylors S.C., just a few months ago. The area looked better than when I briefly attended Furman U., but it still looked backwoods, for the most part.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Here are a few randomly-selected sources:

City of Denver giving homeless people one-way bus tickets out of town | 9news.com
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...town/96754732/
Denver gives homeless criminal one-way bus ticket back to Portland | KGW.com

I have no problem with folks who want to smoke pot smoking pot. Enjoy your liberty.




Not sure what any of this has to do with health insurance.

The Driver

Thank you for the links, and it wasn't me who moved it away from health insurance, you can ask DNMakinson for that.

As for the links, why is a bad thing to sent back home, homeless people that are living in the streets of Denver? So apparently the sytem isn't perfect, please anyone show me anything in life, that is perfect?

Geez, the last one is the worst! The man, had no family, friends or resources in CO. He should be grateful that the CO taxpayers sent him back home, before he froze to death!

DNMakinson

iTrader: (3)

Oh, red herrings are not allowed

I am taking this as a system. Nothing stands by itself. Immigration folds in as well. Don't look at healthcare in a vaccum, but look at the likely outcome of the entire left agenda, taken together.

Let me also say that I don't think Single Payer, Universal Healthcare is inherently evil, I just haste to see the end of the great American experiment.

Back on topic: additional costs of any Government program are graft, fraud, fraud prevention.

The Driver

Cool, lets ger rid off: Public education, public roads (construction and maintenance), airports, ports maintance, building and security. Let's see how long the republic stands after this!

While I was in B-school, and lived back home in FL, I used to be anti tax, anti-govt programs, and flat out anti govt. I believed in what President Reagan sold.

It took a forceful (but blessful) move to Colorado, for me to see the light. This is a high tax area, no bones abou it. But I see, use and enjoy my tax dollars been used/spent wisely. I may have to move in the near future, but I'll find my way back, as quickly as I can. I've learned that when there's a common goal, of predervation, sharing and accountability; taxes are a wonderful venue to get things done. Things that benefit most everyone.

Thanks to Uncle Sam pickled uniform gang, I lived in Columbia, SC, Augusta, GA, and Fayeteville NC. Thanks to been a Fed, I've lived in Los Angeles, CA, NOLA, Tulsa, OK, and twice in Denver.
I loved this place!

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

cause the government is doing a stellar job at this right now?


never heard that argument before either. I've also never heard a leftist say the government should take over something before either, never have i ever...


i work for the federal government, i typically get my wrists slapped when i demand excellence.