JasonC SBB

So both of you are happy that the gov't took a gun to everyone else to get you your money.

Meanwhile, the root cause of the overpriced health care, the anti-competition laws, are still there, and the cheap money creation of the Federal Reserve which is what caused the housing bubble to form in the first place, is still there.

Handy Man

The auto industry bail out, as much as I fundamentally disagree with it, seems to have worked.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

did it? we still have the auto workers union and the taxpayers lost around $25-38 billion on the deal.

last time I check a 25% loss on an investment is not cool...in fact it's disgraceful. Sucess should not be measured by keeping shitty failed companies afloat without consequence.

and GM still makes a shitty product, hell they still run ads for a $40K car that you cant buy.


meanwhile ford makes one hell of a car...

jared8783

iTrader: (2)

Jason,
What is your opinion on our income tax system?
I used to think like this but i dont any longer. Reason I am happy for the 8k house guy is cause I dont believe in our income tax system and am now happy for those who can catch a break on it.

thirdgen

iTrader: (26)

To coincide with what Scott said...GM does make a shitty product. It's hard for me to say that, cause I'm a GM guy. Ford though? Not a fan, but Chrysler? They seem to have their $hit together lately...

jboogie

Am I happy I got something back after years of being a non home owning, non child having, non buisness owning middle class american carrying both the corprate ********* working loop holes and the lazy ****** working the social aid programs? Yes I am.

Should they have taken tax payers money to give to me for doing something I was gonna do anyway? No

What would you have done, turned it down?

When I purchased my home the bank wanted to loan me so much my payment would have been almost half my net income. I could have been like many people and taken that huge loan on an A.R.M then whined to the government with my hand out crying that the banks took advantage of me.

Wanna bitch about something? Bitch about the fact that you can buy a 16oz fillet at the grocery store with your EBT card.

Sorry to thread jack, back to people pretending one political party is better than the other...

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

You're so cool. I bought my first house just before the market crash. i didnt get any help when i was upside down almost 200K. i didnt foreclose like a pansy *** ------- either.

hell, I wasnt even able to turn in my clunker for cash. -- a program that only benefited the wealthy.

But, really, it's cool you got a tax break...I would have taken it to....but dont act like that 8K made or broke you when buying a house, or benefited anything in the long run. 8K on a mortgage with the current rates is like $35 a month?


I agree that the banks were happy as hell to loan out as much money as possible to anyone, but its still ultimately the consumer who needs to know what he/she can afford. this was a policy pushed by the HUD that caused the crisis int he first place.

and yes, end the EBT program...and SSI, and Medicare, and unemployement, and welfare.

njn63

iTrader: (4)

"Wealthy" people were driving cars that were worth under 4k?

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

you had to buy a brand new car that met certain requirements--the value of the trade in didn't matter, it was still a program that only benefited wealthy people who could afford a new car.

poor people didn't have the credit or cash necessary to buy a brand new car. and if they did, the cost is much more than maintaining/driving an older car that happens to get 18mpg or less.

it hurt the used car parts market, the cars getting junked were crushed and solid for scrap, no parts could be taken off to them to resell on the used market -- which benefits the poor. not to mention, its the poor (and non-profits who give to the poor) who buy used cheap cars...These cars didn't make it to market...they were crushed.

cash for clunkers is exactly the program that can be summarized by my signature.


I would have loved to trade in my car, but there was two problems: 1. it made 1 mpg too much to qualify. 2. I wasn't rich enough to buy a brand new car.

so to summarize: it had no long-term benefit to the economy, was a subsidy for the wealthy, it destroyed functional cars that could benefit the poor, it hurt the used car market (not including the cars crushed), it caused an artificial demand and caused people to buy/debit before ready, the environmental "gains" were a lie, rewards people who mad bad decisions (but a "gas guzzler" in the first place), and most importantly it teaches us the best way to solve an issue is to throw taxpayers money at it with no regard instead of tightening up the belt and saving and actually solving an issue.

Handy Man

Looks like you're right

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...can-taxpayers/

njn63

iTrader: (4)

Your definition and my definition of wealthy must be different. There is an entire middle class between the wealthy and the poor that can afford new cars and has the credit to do it.

Yes, cash for clunkers rewarded poor choices in cars but I just disagree it rewarded the "wealthy." The wealthy weren't driving cars that were worth under 4k and made sense to trade in on this program.
I doubt you actually tried because it's pretty hard to not get approved to buy a new car. Whether it's a smart financial decision... that's a whole other discussion.

arga

Is there any way I could have been more clear that I dislike that bill? Yes, that one part of it helps me. I was trying to fairly answer the OP's question. Put to a vote, though, and I would vote the whole thing down every time.

jared8783

iTrader: (2)

here is something he didn't accomplish
btw im not a fan of the music
but if you do watch it til the end we are WAAAAYYY behind most of the world when it comes to the quality of our food
its pretty sad if ya ask me
i never liked obama from day one
not even when he was campaigning cuz he never gave me a reason to believe that he wasnt a lyin sellout like the rest.
that being said, he did make alot of sense while he was campaigning for his first term imo
too bad he didnt actually follow through with none of it

Vashthestampede

iTrader: (17)

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

sure i could get a loan. but spending $80 a month on gas is better than $400 a month on a car note plus $38 a month on gas.

does that make any sense? we just got in a horrible recession, everyone is losing jobs left and right, and here the gov't is trying to save the day by giving you free money if you spend another 15K.

sure it might have "helped" the auto industry, but they got a bail out themselves anyways and the top car sales were mostly forgien companies without plants here at home.

It put money in the pockets of the wealthy, and they sure did a good job convincing you it helped the poor/middle class by putting them deeper in the hole...only a Keynesian scum would think this is a good idea.



I'd still like to hear how the first time buyers 8K tax rebate when buying a new house helped the poor or people like me who lost nearly $200K on their first home purchase...

jboogie

werd.

JasonC SBB

Before discussion of how taxes are collected, the more important issue of what % of GDP the gov't is allowed to consumer. I think 15% is a good number - state only. The fed gov should be funded by the states, and not directly by the people.

And then I think the only reasonable tax is a straight sales tax on everything, except used goods. Anything else smacks of social engineering and will distort the market and will be open to corporatism.

JasonC SBB

Agreed.


Concur.

olderguy

iTrader: (19)

He DID give us a very nice quote to use against his re-election:

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, "the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

Scrappy Jack

iTrader: (2)

This thread makes me sad.

I wish I had enough red pills for everyone. :-/