I note that while typing this, a large number of other excellent responses have been posted. I will take the time to digest those once I get home, just wanted to let you all know that I'm not ignoring you.
Originally Posted by Splitime
(Post 1089038)
Have I forgotten how you typically talk through topics like this such that you go for absurd inaccurate statements?
Originally Posted by Splitime
(Post 1089038)
AR15s in their pocket?
Originally Posted by Splitime
(Post 1089038)
Take away their right to purchase military assault rifles?
Originally Posted by Splitime
(Post 1089038)
those are the sad absurd statements made by the people who think no one should ever own any type of firearm (except them and their bodyguards).
Notes: 1 = The weapon now known as the Armalite AR-15 was the outcome of a development competition issued in 1957/58 by the US Army Continental Army Command (CONARC), to produce a low-recoil, small-caliber fully automatic rifle. This was done after several studies conducted by the US Army Operations Research Office (ORO) during WWII and the Korean war demonstrated that directing large amounts of randomly aimed fire towards the enemy was more effective at producing large-scale casualties than selectively aimed fire from larger caliber, semi-automatic rifles, a concept known colloquially as "spray-and-pray". In other words, the AR-15 was specifically designed to be the exact opposite of a "sporting" rifle. 2 = "some people" should be interpreted to mean "those who are simultaneously the most vocal about "gun rights" and also the least well-informed about both the constitutional and legislative underpinnings of same." 3 = If anything, such threads are much better examples of "hysteria and absurdity," inasmuch as the use of cherry-picked news stories from marginal sources in order to generate a sustain an atmosphere of paranoia and hysteria, and to suppress attempts at rational analysis and discourse. 4 = For instance, last week I played a game with my niece while we were driving through town, sort of like the "punch buggy" game, in which we each called out every time we saw either a gun store or a book store. For that portion of US-41 (the main road through Port Charlotte, Florida, along which >90% of the strip malls and consumer retail businesses are located) which extends from the Peace River bridge at the south-eastern most end of town to Veterans Highway at the north-western most end of town, gun stores outnumber book stores by approximately three to one, and I am counting the little religious bookstore owned by the local Catholic church in that figure. We also decided to count WalMart in both categories, as they sell both guns and books. |
Originally Posted by RussellT94
(Post 1089077)
Do you consider the NY SAFE Act a piece of legislation?
Why no focus on enforcing current legislation before adding more? Point still stands: what are you guys so afraid of? |
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect
(Post 1089072)
Twenty kindergarteners were mowed down not too long ago and not one piece of legislation was brought up to limit or revoke gun ownership.
What are you guys so scared of? |
Originally Posted by Ryan_G
(Post 1089081)
No amount of legislation would have prevented that tragedy. If anything the legislation that made that school a "gun free zone" put those children in greater danger than anything else. You ever notice that every single mad shooting takes place in a gun free zone?
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Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy
(Post 1089042)
It's always to that extreme isn't it? I think this is kind of the point to this whole thread. Someone brings up that maybe there are things about current gun laws that should be discussed and people lose their shit. Nobody ever said anything about no one should ever be allowed to own any type of firearm. And I think most of the gun rights people aren't saying that either. They might ask why one needs to own an assault rifle and the gun people starts soap boxing that people are trying to hold them down and take their guns away from them. It always feel like a lot of overreaction to me.
No One Wants to Ban or Confiscate Guns huh? These Quotes from Anti Gun Leaders Say Otherwise Keep in mind that the ones openly stating they want all firearms banned for civilians are ignorant in trying to accomplishing their own goals. And don't be fooled. There are plenty of politicians who would like to see all firearms banned. However, they are actually half intelligent people who know that to achieve something of that magnitude, you have to pick at it, slowly, over time. And they know to openly state, "oh yes, all guns should be banned" would be political suicide to most. There are politicians who at EVERY corner will vote against guns, EVERY chance they get. The 2nd amendment is not something the people will ever get back if it is lost, and in my opinion the "overreaction" by so many is warranted in protecting it. |
Originally Posted by Ryan_G
(Post 1089081)
No amount of legislation would have prevented that tragedy. If anything the legislation that made that school a "gun free zone" put those children in greater danger than anything else. You ever notice that every single mad shooting takes place in a gun free zone?
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Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect
(Post 1089082)
Nice victim blaming. You cannot prevent every tragedy with legislation. The fact is mass shootings and gun deaths in this country are statistically rare and have been steadily declining for decades. Stop with the fear mongering. |
Originally Posted by Ryan_G
(Post 1089085)
Really I must have missed the part where I mentioned that it was the fault of the 5 year olds that they were not armed. If I blamed anyone it was the politicians who decided to pass a law that disallows lawful citizens from carrying adequate equipment to properly defend themselves against those that ignore such laws as "gun free zones", theft of weapons, and murdering other people. The only gun free zones should be those enforced by metal detectors and armed guards, much like court rooms and prisons.
You cannot prevent every tragedy with legislation. The fact is mass shootings and gun deaths in this country are statistically rare and have been steadily declining for decades. Stop with the fear mongering. What are you afraid of? |
Originally Posted by Ryan_G
(Post 1089085)
Stop with the fear mongering.
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Originally Posted by LukeH
(Post 1089083)
Here are some people... Some prominent political figures...
No One Wants to Ban or Confiscate Guns huh? These Quotes from Anti Gun Leaders Say Otherwise Keep in mind that the ones openly stating they want all firearms banned for civilians are ignorant in trying to accomplishing their own goals. And don't be fooled. There are plenty of politicians who would like to see all firearms banned. However, they are actually half intelligent people who know that to achieve something of that magnitude, you have to pick at it, slowly, over time. And they know to openly state, "oh yes, all guns should be banned" would be political suicide to most. There are politicians who at EVERY corner will vote against guns, EVERY chance they get. The 2nd amendment is not something the people will ever get back if it is lost, and in my opinion the "overreaction" by so many is warranted in protecting it. |
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect
(Post 1089089)
Nobody has taken your guns or is coming for your guns. What are you afraid of? |
I'm just curious what people are afraid of. :)
The gun rights crowd has won the argument and the second amendment isn't going anywhere. |
And in case anyone has forgotten, this thread started out more as a, why can't we have a discussion about this like reasonably intelligent people, thread. This topic always seems to be so polarized, and almost right away people take a defensive posture and become very hard headed and refuse to listen to what the other side has to say.
We already know what the 2nd amendment says, and that there are some politicians pushing for strict restrictions. Not to put words in Joe's mouth, but maybe this thread was meant more for a discussion on sociological aspects of this argument, not so much the specifics about laws and rights. Why people are so resistant to discussion on this topic and why simply stating an opinion contrary to your peers is equal to political and social suicide. Or maybe that's just me wanting to talk about that over a pissing contest about who interprets the 2nd amendment and legislation more accurately.:p |
Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy
(Post 1089098)
And in case anyone has forgotten, this thread started out more as a, why can't we have a discussion about this like reasonably intelligent people, thread. This topic always seems to be so polarized, and almost right away people take a defensive posture and become very hard headed and refuse to listen to what the other side has to say.
We already know what the 2nd amendment says, and that there are some politicians pushing for strict restrictions. Not to put words in Joe's mouth, but maybe this thread was meant more for a discussion on sociological aspects of this argument, not so much the specifics about laws and rights. Why people are so resistant to discussion on this topic and why simply stating an opinion contrary to your peers is equal to political and social suicide. Or maybe that's just me wanting to talk about that over a pissing contest about who interprets the 2nd amendment and legislation more accurately.:p Then you have the pro-gun side that has become incredibly paranoid and unwilling to negotiate after years and years of having various states and districts place ever increasing restrictions on the LEGAL ownership of firearms without ever giving anything back or even addressing the root causes of the real reasons for the unecessary violence. Would you continue to negotiate about restrictions on your freedom of speech if everytime we were done negotiating I took away a bit more of your freedom without ever giving in to a single one of your demands. Keep in mind we started with almost no restrictions on weapons so just allowing me to keep some of what I already had is not conceding anything. |
Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy
(Post 1089042)
It's always to that extreme isn't it? I think this is kind of the point to this whole thread. Someone brings up that maybe there are things about current gun laws that should be discussed and people lose their shit. Nobody ever said anything about no one should ever be allowed to own any type of firearm. And I think most of the gun rights people aren't saying that either. They might ask why one needs to own an assault rifle and the gun people starts soap boxing that people are trying to hold them down and take their guns away from them. It always feel like a lot of overreaction to me.
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect
(Post 1089045)
What are you scared of?
Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy
(Post 1089060)
Well aren't you clever! You got me... :cry:
One is transportation, one is a killing device. Sure a car can be used to kill as well, but I could also kill someone with a tightly rolled piece of paper.
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect
(Post 1089064)
Oh look, a person who can't take an iota of criticism.
Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy
(Post 1089066)
That is completely apples to oranges though. One is designed for transportation, one was designed with the sole purpose of killing. Sure you can take a gun and do some harmless target practice, but its purpose to exist is still to kill.
And no one is talking about banning, but regulating, and last I checked, ownership and operation of automobiles is regulated. Rightly so, because cars can be dangerous and can kill.
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect
(Post 1089068)
Countdown to "a gun is a tool!" talking point and about how you can murder somebody with a shovel or ballpoint pen.
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect
(Post 1089080)
Because the current legislation is inadequate. Also the NY SAFE Act isn't a significant piece of legislation that is prohibiting or revoking gun ownership, but hey, it was only 20 5-year-olds and a handful of teachers.
Point still stands: what are you guys so afraid of?
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect
(Post 1089082)
Nice victim blaming.
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect
(Post 1089089)
Nobody has taken your guns or is coming for your guns.
What are you afraid of? |
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I was going to quote more, but I am pretty sure that covers it. Also I come from a country with gun regulation and much more assault than pre gun regulation.
Look at the violent crime per capita on these charts. Australian gun control 1996, UK super strict gun control 1997. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1389049984 Dann |
Who is this Dunning Kruger Affect troll?
There were/are numerous attempt to regulate/confiscate/control etc on the graves of those children. There have been ongoing attempts to ban/regulate/register (with paths to confiscation that are being played out already in CA) etc... I don't think i'll continue to answer your ignorant goading simple passive aggressive statements. Obviously we know where you stand. Argh I get so tired of simpletons. |
I love it when a car community really comes together to discuss politics. :bowrofl:
Abandon ship! |
If you were planning to kill a bunch of people, would you give up on your plan if guns were illegal? Would the legality, or even the availability of guns deter you at all from going forward with your plan?
I just feel like if someone really wants to kill a bunch of people they're going to do it regardless of whether guns are available to them or not. I see gun regulations being absolutely useless on premeditated murder. On the other hand some regulation, restriction, education, and safety certainly seems like it would go a long way in preventing impulse and accidental shootings. I just wish some common sense on both sides could be applied to gun laws. |
I haven't seen actual numbers on the subject, but I would be willing to make a guess that premeditated gun related shootings only make up a very small percentage of overall gun related shootings/deaths. Those non meditated cases are the ones that matter in this argument. Of course a criminal with intent will get a gun either way, but a person that is unstable and untrained can have a gun, which can also lead to tragedy. Guns turn people into cowards. Like I've heard a LOT of old people say, younger people today are pussies and scared to take an ass whooping. You might get your ass beat, but you live to fight another day. Same applies to cops. Most of them are cowardly with gun in hand, too scared to put themselves in the line of actual danger, so they shoot first and ask questions later. Even in situations that would likely be non life threatening to them.
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