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The SEAL who shot UBL
All over the news right now. The SEAL left the service with 16 years and some media outlets are making a big deal over him not receiving a pension.
20 years is the earliest service at which a 50% pension is earned. The pension % goes up from there. It's been this way forever. I remember the last time forces were being drastically cut to realize the "peace dividend" after (even during) Desert Storm. Guys with 15 and 16 years were being forced out into a recession. That was a tough time, and it's happening again now -- but probably even worse this time. The news reports always tell half the story. Anybody know what the real story is here? Did he leave voluntarily? Was he forced out for some reason? What's going on? Sam, do you know? |
do not care. if he has no money it'sbecausehe doesn't manage finances well.
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Did the 9/11 first responders ever get healthcare? We don't give a shit about heroes after their 15 minutes of fame if it costs us money. Unless it's to get a photo op of course.
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Man Who Killed Osama Bin Laden - Treatment of Veteran Who Shot bin Laden - Esquire
That looks like the most in-depth article, but I have not had time to read it. I am also really curious as to whether he voluntarily retired early via a monumental mistake on his part (aka just did not think it through) or what the details are. |
That was the article I was referring to. Puff piece, full of hyperbole. But no real information on why he left the service from what I can see. I can only assume he left voluntarily, in which case, he's a big boy and knew what he was doing. I don't get the "outrage."
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Alright, I sped-read the Esquire article. Here are some relevant snippets:
With gossip and finger-pointing continuing over the mission, the Shooter made a decision "to show I wasn't a douchebag, that I'm still part of this team and believe in what we're doing." He re-upped for another four-month deployment. It would be in the brutal cold of Afghanistan's winter. But he had already decided this would be his last deployment, his SEAL Team 6 sayonara. "I wanted to see my children graduate and get married." He hoped to be able to sleep through the night for the first time in years. "I was burned out," he says. "And I realized that when I stopped getting an adrenaline rush from gunfights, it was time to go." But when he officially separates from the Navy three months later, where do his sixteen years of training and preparedness go on his résumé? Who in the outside world understands the executive skills and keen psychological fortitude he and his First Tier colleagues have absorbed into their DNA? Who is even allowed to know? And where can he go to get any of these questions answered? I am sympathetic to a lot of elements of that story, but they need to take the focus off the one guy and make it more comprehensive about how the whole system of reintegration can be improved. I am also shocked to hear that a SEAL with 16 years experience is only making ~$54k/year. That sounds like BS to me or totally neglects combat pay and tax advantages. It does make it sound like he opted to retire (understandably) with virtually no concrete plans for post-service work or employment. |
Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack
(Post 978264)
Man Who Killed Osama Bin Laden - Treatment of Veteran Who Shot bin Laden - Esquire
That looks like the most in-depth article, but I have not had time to read it. I am also really curious as to whether he voluntarily retired early via a monumental mistake on his part (aka just did not think it through) or what the details are. timely: Fort Hood Hero Says Obama 'Betrayed' Her, Other Victims - ABC News |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 978256)
do not care. if he has no money it'sbecausehe doesn't manage finances well.
Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack
(Post 978273)
I am sympathetic to a lot of elements of that story, but they need to take the focus off the one guy and make it more comprehensive about how the whole system of reintegration can be improved.
I am also shocked to hear that a SEAL with 16 years experience is only making ~$54k/year. That sounds like BS to me or totally neglects combat pay and tax advantages. It does make it sound like he opted to retire (understandably) with virtually no concrete plans for post-service work or employment. It says in the article he was burnt out, and after serving as a SEAL I can see how that would probably happen. We've spend billions of dollars trying to kill OBL, but we can't throw special operations guys a bone? Not to mention the fact that these guys can really destroy their bodies doing this kind of work, epically for a long period of time. |
Originally Posted by gearhead_318
(Post 978343)
You think he was thinking of his finances when he got back from whatever mission toke him to whatever far away god forsaken shit-hole where he got shot at last? Probably not.
Now he's out of service and struggling like a regular citizen. Veterans always deal with this shit and always have to struggle with going back to regular life. He left service after 16 years, but needs 20 to get a pension. Okay. Normal. That's like quitting a job and then getting pissed you're not getting paid anymore. He gets 5 free years of healthcare through the VA. so again, I dunno what all the fuss is about. |
Originally Posted by gearhead_318
(Post 978343)
You think he was thinking of his finances when he got back from whatever mission toke him to whatever far away god forsaken shit-hole where he got shot at last? Probably not.
Originally Posted by gearhead_318
(Post 978343)
He's divorced so he might not be getting full BAH, plus what the military makes you pay out to your ex. I know a Marine who was making less then $50 a paycheck after what the military made him pay out to his ex wife + taxes.
I can understand being burnt out and I can understand being physically wrecked. I can understand not having the mental or physical drive to work active SpecOps missions. I cannot understand how someone quits their job without having some concrete plans for future employment lined up first, especially when you are responsible for a family's well-being. What I don't know is whether he had the opportunity to stay in the service but work in a different role (i.e. not active combat). Could he have worked in a different role for the next four years and retired with benefits? I will also again question the quote that says he makes about $54k. That seems way low to me, based on my experience with active military clients that have less time in. |
I was a highly trained fighter pilot. The military spent millions training me. I served in combat where the other side actually had missiles to shoot at me and opposing fighter planes to launch at me. I had shipmates killed, shot down and imprisoned.
I resigned my commission when my commitment was up to preserve my marriage -- a personal choice. I also had 3 bad discs from the stresses of my job. My transition to civilian life into a recession was extremely difficult -- an experience that I don't care to repeat. Should I get a pension? Frankly, this guy was lucky to get probably the most cherished assignment in the history of the military. He served honorably, just as millions of others have. I'm sure he's a great guy. But his buddy that writes for Esquire is a dipshit who has no idea what he's advocating. Now, if this guy was forced out with 16 years -- like so many others are during postwar RIF processes -- that's a different story entirely. |
Originally Posted by hornetball
(Post 978474)
I was a highly trained fighter pilot. The military spent millions training me. I served in combat where the other side actually had missiles to shoot at me and opposing fighter planes to launch at me. I had shipmates killed, shot down and imprisoned.
I resigned my commission when my commitment was up to preserve my marriage -- a personal choice. I also had 3 bad discs from the stresses of my job. My transition to civilian life into a recession was extremely difficult -- an experience that I don't care to repeat. Should I get a pension? Frankly, this guy was lucky to get probably the most cherished assignment in the history of the military. He served honorably, just as millions of others have. I'm sure he's a great guy. But his buddy that writes for Esquire is a dipshit who has no idea what he's advocating. Now, if this guy was forced out with 16 years -- like so many others are during postwar RIF processes -- that's a different story entirely. Thanks for your service. And your post makes sense. I mean, we don't really know what the story is, so how can we draw a conclusion? |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 978400)
what's your point? How many other active service members are in the same situation. If you want to have that conversation, have it. but this guy just happens to be a "hero" so now he should deserve special treatment. it's a silly story.
Now he's out of service and struggling like a regular citizen. Veterans always deal with this shit and always have to struggle with going back to regular life. He left service after 16 years, but needs 20 to get a pension. Okay. Normal. That's like quitting a job and then getting pissed you're not getting paid anymore. He gets 5 free years of healthcare through the VA. so again, I dunno what all the fuss is about. |
tell that to everyone else struggling in his exact same situation. no one is turning their backs, it's that no one has any duty to him.
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Just because you don't have to do something doesn't mean you shouldn't.
Do you tip waiters/waitresses? |
1 Attachment(s)
red herring.
THE PRICE THEY PAID https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1360781480 Of the 56 men that signed the Declaration of Independence, those closest to the British forces paid the most dearly for signing the treasonous and illegal Declaration of Independence. All 56 signers faced death by hanging. Francis Lewis had his home and estate plundered. His wife was captured and brutalized, later dying from the effects of bad treatment. William Floyd and his family were unable to return to their pillaged home for seven years. Philip Livingston was forced to leave his family and died alone in 1778. Lewis Morris and family spent the entire war in exile, their vast estate and fortune destroyed. "Honest John" Hart left his dying wife and 13 children behind, hiding in caves and forests. Years later he returned to find his wife's grave, his 13 children gone. He died alone, a broken man in 1779. Richard Stockton was brutally beaten upon capture, and mistreated in prison. He died in 1781 a despondent 51 year-old. Robert Morris lent his vast fortune and credit to the cause. He died broke in 1806. William Ellery had his home and property looted. Thomas Lynch Jr. sought vacation to aid his failing health, dying in a shipwreck. Thomas Heyward, Edward Rutledge and Arthur Middleton lost their vast fortunes while in prison. Mrs. Heyward died while her husband was imprisoned. Thomas Nelson Jr., despite failing health, served as a commander in the militia, and spent his personal fortune on the cause. At the battle of Yorktown, he ordered his own home destroyed by cannon fire while it was occupied by the British. Abraham Clark was notified his two sons were captured and being brutally tortured while in prison. The British offered Clark his two sons freedom if he would renounce his signature on the Declaration of Independence. With a heavy heart he answered, "NO." |
So we can let this guy be knowing that people in the past had it worse?
Does that mean I shouldn't bother calling 911 if I see you've been in a serious car accident, since you've got it so much better (what with barely clinging to life and all) then a guy who would have gotten in the same accident in a 1965 Lotus Elan and died instantly? |
Originally Posted by gearhead_318
(Post 978581)
So we can let this guy be knowing that people in the past had it worse?
Does that mean I shouldn't bother calling 911 if I see you've been in a serious car accident, since you've got it so much better (what with barely clinging to life and all) then a guy who would have gotten in the same accident in a 1965 Lotus Elan and died instantly? |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 978587)
Why are we helping this guy and not others? and by we do you mean: you and I? society? or the gov't?
silly liberal non-logical argument does not get a response. I don't mean to say we should just help this one guy, I'm saying society should help out people who choose to do these things to help us out. |
Gearhead - You are missing pretty much everyone's point. You are saying The Shooter should receive some charity from someone because he is special.
Most of us are saying something like, "there's an argument to be made that all service people deserve better transition services from active duty to civillian life but the author of that article selling The Shooter's as a sob story is disingenuous." Brain and I are also saying The Shooter should have done a better job of financial planning for himself and his family before deciding to quit his job. |
Originally Posted by gearhead_318
(Post 978562)
I'm saying to turn our back on the type of person who did so much for us without asking for much at all in return is wrong, and that somebody should throw him a bone. All it would take is a phone call from the right person to get this guy a good job in a field that he could fit into, ie private security, something in law enforcement ect. I'm sure somebody in his community of former special operations dudes there is somebody that will hook him up with a job.
This man has highly marketable skills. And, while he can't disclose details of classified operations, he can certainly disclose his education, training, general experience, decorations, etc. to any potential employer. He can certainly get employment related to his field, assuming he wants it. His security situation is somewhat unique. Of course, having an expose in Esquire doesn't exactly help. How hard would it be to kidnap the Esquire author and get the name? How long would the Esquire author hold up to waterboarding, let alone what unsavory types might do? |
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Originally Posted by hornetball
(Post 978605)
How hard would it be to kidnap the Esquire author and get the name? How long would the Esquire author hold up to waterboarding, let alone what unsavory types might do?
teh story also left out he's entitled to 5 years free health care from the VA. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 978608)
...if only.
I know about the above because they are two of the groups I donate to personally. I had never heard of many of the others listed, which shows they are out there if you look. That's why the story leaves a bad taste in our collective mouths: it reads like the guy decided to quit his job with no long-term gameplan and is now surprised and upset that he doesn't have employer-linked benefits like income and healthcare and his budget is FUBAR. I am with Hornetball, though. All of this changes if he was forced out versus voluntarily leaving. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 978609)
teh story also left out he's entitled to 5 years free health care from the VA.
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Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack
(Post 978627)
I am with Hornetball, though. All of this changes if he was forced out versus voluntarily leaving.
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