JasonC SBB

Humans as livestock, governments as livestock owners:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baAw6srihOE

viperormiata

iTrader: (24)

(I didn't watch, just fixed.)

turotufas

iTrader: (7)

Indeed.

BenR

iTrader: (2)

Interesting perspective. Though I don't think "shutting everything down" is a good solution.

gearhead_318

iTrader: (1)

OP, are you an archaist? Just curious. I could only get 1:20 in before I started smelling NWO theorists.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

It had nothing to do with NWO. Farmers tend to crop thier own farms.

Vashthestampede

iTrader: (17)

Interesting videos.

I've always looked at the majority of society as "cattle".

How old are you? Just curious.

MD323

You are the all singing all dancing....


Interesting video, but that fact of the matter is most humans need some sort of "hearding" to keep themselves on course.

The evil is those who use this relationship as a way to gain more wealth than the relationship would normally support in a sense.

mgeoffriau

iTrader: (7)

Is this true of most humans because we are naturally that way, or because we've submitted to this situation for so long?

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

At least we live on the best farm. That's all I have to say.

MD323

That's a very hard question to answer, probably the only remaining case studys would be in untouched parts of africa. Even then most villages go from simple farm based societies to full on children with AK47's and slavery within a few years of the introduction of the idea of wealth and greed.


Then again the oposite can be said about this community, there are leaders to initiate new commers into the heard and dispense knowledge, yet we are not enslaved, some of us even donate to the cause.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

dude.

Simple villages dont go from farmers to AK47 welding slave owners overnight from the introduction of wealth and greed...their peaceful villages get pillaged and they are forced INTO slavery, where the childern an indoctinated to hate and sent to kill their own families.

MD323

Yes most of them do, but where do the rebel forces that enslave them come from?

I'm obviously omitting the presence of outside armies who do the same and trying to focus on the idea that some of these farmers are born from the same village life they burn rape and pilage to gain wealth

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

where do they come from? that countries army/militia/dictator/overlord.

jacob300zx

I don't think we should shut everything down either, but 95% would be about right. All his points are valid, not really free if you can't even own property with out your yearly rental fee "tax".

JasonC SBB

Nobody is advocating "shutting everything down". That's dumb.

Don't confuse society with government. That's the propaganda.

The Federal Gov't is on a train wreck to insolvency. The debt is unpayable. When the interest rates on treasury debt goes up, and the resulting cost of paying the interest alone on the debt rises and exceeds the military budget, is historically when empires end. The Fed Gov will be forced to cut its budget whether it likes it or not. And when budgets are cut, their power is cut. Then power will de-centralize.

I think the most logical thing that will happen next is that the States will invoke the 10th Amendment and take power back from Washington DC. De-centralization of power is a good thing.

So the Fed Gov will default. The question is, in what form? The most logical sequence is: mass inflation, then budget cuts. The Fed Gov will stiff various voting blocs. In what sequence? I think the military budget is the easiest to cut. Pull back troops from Germany, South Korea, etc, countries which can afford their own defense. After that, I think the oldsters and retirees will be stiffed, then the gov't unions. There will be a revolution at the ballot box. When the young voters are tired of taxes in the face of mass inflation, they will finally go out and vote and outnumber the oldsters and vote to take away their pensions. Granny will have to sell her house and come and live with you.

I doubt there will be hyperinflation - it's in nobody's interest - when the money dies, the power dies.

Who wins, who loses? Ruling class loses, cattle class wins. Short term, the destabilization of the economy will cause a short term recession - the destabilization is because the Fed Gov controls so much of the GDP. However as the free market is left alone, its tendency is towards productivity and the economy will recover. The losers will be those who are dependent on the government teat - employees, contractors, the welfare class, and those whose jobs are paid above-market via gov't protection. The winners will be the productive class.

Long term, de-centralization of power will lead to increased freedom. And the livestock will realize that the fundamental idea of "government as savior" was a big lie.

All of the welfare governments of the West (except maybe Canada and Norway), are on the path to insolvency. The accounting will catch up to all of them. The welfare state is fundamentally unsustainable. The 50-odd year experiment will end, just as the experiment with communism ended.

JasonC SBB

As you say this you are thinking of yourself as superior to others. You are thinking of yourself as part of the "herding class" and others as part of the "livestock class". You believe that your superiority justifies your promotion of "just" laws that do good and "properly" herd the others, because "you know better".

What you don't realize is that higher up the financial totem pole, are a smaller group of elite who are thinking exactly the same thing. Except that YOU are part of their cattle class.

Such thinking is a big part of the mess we're in. It is tyranny.

It is arrogance - that you believe you know how other people "should" run their lives.

Centralization of power leads to pathocracies - the positions at the top attract the very worst, most immoral megalomaniacs, yielding opposite results to what those well-meaning people like you that believe that the cattle need to be herded. Well-meaning people who vote Democrat thinking along the lines that "Bush and the Republicans are evil and Obama and the Democrats are angels". In reality both parties are evil, it's just that the Dems are less obvious. Creating a welfare class is a means of further increasing the power of gov't.

And if you say, "democracy is where the people exert their popular will". Well, would you like to have the inferior-to-you cattle class vote on what *you* can and cannot do?

A system based on freedom, leaving the cattle alone, will not be perfect. It will not yield perfect results for every cow. But the other option, top-down control, yields worse results.

The reason the USA became wealthy is not because of what the gov't has done, but because the relative amounts of freedom resulted in high productivity, which is incentivized, because individuals get to keep the fruits of said productivity. And such productivity benefits *everyone*.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

“I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I traveled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.” – Ben Franklin


"Property is the fruit of labor...property is desirable...is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built." - Abraham Lincoln


"Our tenet ever was that Congress had not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but were restrained to those specifically enumerated, and that, as it was never meant that they should provide for that welfare but by the exercise of the enumerated powers, so it could not have been meant they should raise money for purposes which the enumeration did not place under their action; consequently, that the specification of powers is a limitation of the purposes for which they may raise money. "
-- Thomas Jefferson letter to Albert Gallatin, 1817


“…[T]he government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government.”
-James Madison


"A wise and frugal government ... shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government."
-- Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801


“To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.” -- Thomas Jefferson


"As a matter of fact and law, the governing rights of the States are all of those which have not been surrendered to the National Government by the Constitution or its amendments. Wisely or unwisely, people know that under the Eighteenth Amendment Congress has been given the right to legislate on this particular subject [Prohibition], but this is not the case in the matter of a great number of other vital problems of government, such as the conduct of public utilities, of banks, of insurance, of business, of agriculture, of education, of social welfare and of a dozen other important features. In these, Washington must not be encouraged to interfere." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 1930 (Spoken when he was at the state level and it suited him. When president, he despotically grabbed for more and more power, the lousy ******* hypocrite)

“Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.” -- Thomas Jefferson


“Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence.” -- Thomas Jefferson


I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." -- thomas Jefferson


"The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits." -- Thomas Jefferson (Oh, that I wish this was still true)


"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." -- Thomas Jefferson


"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?" -- Thomas Jefferson

JasonC SBB

I <3 Jefferson's and Madison's philosophies.
Hamilton was scum.

Just to show you how much power corrupts, one of the Founders, IIRC Adams, jailed a dissenter for calling him "his rotundity". Despite that fact that he helped write the Bill of Rights.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

Hamilton should be happy...it only took 100 years for his shitty ideas to get out there.