$600 for used FM Link ecu a good deal?
 

Used FM Link for sale w/ a bunch of extra stuff. $600 a good price? I know MS is preferred now but isn't FM's support of the link helpful? For $600 bucks I could ditch my bandaids and have a supported ecu. PNP is important for me. Don't have the guts, knowledge or time to delve too deeply into MS.

Opinions of the Link unit? Price? Ease of use and installation? I'm just getting ready to install bipes and this came up. My 94 is a Daily driver and 1/2 dozen track days a year.

600 is a VERRY good deal, they are 1200 new! Its better than the MS, its a full standalone!

MS is a full standalone...

I'd still go MS. Link is getting outdated.

Yeah considering MS is strongly supported and we all use it. Link is past its prime, hence the hydra.

plus you can change options within the board, don't need to have a key pad, and with MS you can use a palm. SWEET

Can you remove the AFM with the Link?

Looking at FM's site it looks like the AFM can be removed.

600 dollars is a steal. Jump on that deal! The Link ECU is a very capable standalone with a strong user base.

I think the Link with Plink running on a Palm for datalog, tuning and realtime readout is a superb setup. What's the major differences between MS and the Link (at this price)? launch control? map sensor limit? Even though there's a growing MS/Miata user base, I don't think it compares to the support available for the Link.

The real question is what's included with the link? is it an FM link?

That's true. Make sure it's a FM Link and ask what's included. I bought my Link last year for $550. I think Links are still holding their value. This was by far the best deal I came across when building my kit. My deal included the ecu, keypad, injectors, AIT sensor and map sensor. I added the datalog lab, cleaned the injectors and updated the chipped for around 200 dollars more. This was money very well spent.

was it the 96 links that sucked?

I'm not sure. I do know they updated the Link board in 96-97 to a dual processor. I would assume it would make the Link faster. I also think there are a few more options with the 96-97 boards, but I don't know them off them off the top of my head.

It is an FM link. Just bought it. Has the keypad, 4 program chips, knocksensor, boost control, who knows what else. Looked like a reasonable deal on a supported item. FM doesn't get a lot of respect around here but their support of this item is a pretty big plus. Now I've gotta sell off my bandaids and find some bigger injectors.

that's a damn good deal for all that :bigtu:

That is a good deal for that capability

Of course now my install is more complicated. I liked how simple the bipes, fmu, o2 clamp was for install. More parts, more wires, more more more...

At least the ecu is pnp but now I've got to run the boost control, knock sensor, air intake temp sensor, etc. Should be much better long term though. Now I've just gotta find time to install all this crap. Better yet find someone else who could do some of it cheap.

tsk tsk tsk MS is truly PNP

Link is good the obiwan for the 96-97 cars is pretty robust. It is by far one of the easiest installs from what i have read right up there with a MSPNP. The 1.6 link isn't as powerfulll as a MS but it will get the job done none the less. Good job man.

I didn't care much for FM's support when they sent me a busted Link.

As far as install goes, both it and the MSPNP are pretty easy, but I'd give the edge to the MS as being easier. With the Link you have to dick with ecu pins, which is a PITA. Also the MS IAT sensor was easier to install, however the bung has to be welded. With the MS you also don't have to bust open the ecu case or any of that noise.

Capability wise the MS does more. The only place where I think the MS falters to the Link is idle valve activation integrated with A/C control. Not that the MS doesn't control A/C; it just has reactive ICV control vs the OEM and Link's proactive control. The Link also has the option for sequential fuel injection. Otherwise the MS is more configurable, programable, flexible.

The interface is far superior with the MS. It is all common sense, and you don't have to refer back to the manual to look up zone definitions every 3 seconds. The Link keypad is good/bad, but either computer can interface with a Palm anyway. The Link software suite is free to use, where the DLL software is (from memory) an extra $100 for the liscense. The MS also has an on board data connection, where the Link requires a seperate seriallink.

$600 is a good price for a whole used Link set up. I got $1000 for one that I sold (it was in a car I bought). I would still go for an MSPNP over a Link again. The MS is easier to tune and tweak, has extra Ins and Outs (link is maxed out) for additional capabilities, TPS input, and is completely configurable. The Link is only partly configurable.

The 94 unit I have is pnp for the ecu part. The tougher job is wiring/plumbing in an intake temp sensor, the boost controller and the knock sensor. I'm guessing this stuff is useful and recommended with the MS too. My budget build is now officially blown to hell but I went with quality stuff.
I'll have about $2200 into all the turbo parts including the 2.5" ss exhaust, race cat, injectors, gauges, etc. I figure a comparable FM system would be over double. Of course I could have been driving a pressurized car for the last 8 months instead of looking for parts.

Ben,

Yeah MS is the better system but this with all the sensors, controllers and (questionable) support was available for a reasonable price. I could have done better but this looked like a reasonable upgrade from running the bandaids I was going to use. If I ever sell this car the FM product will likely have better name recognition with the wine and cheesers.

I'd say it's a fantastic upgrade! The Link is Leaps and bounds better than your current setup. I'm not sure how you could have done better at that price. Some people spend that much and more on less capable systems. Once its installed and you learn how to tune your car, you'll appreciate this purchase a little more.

The main problem with the Link is that it now gives very poor bang/buck compared to other ecus, especially MS. A 600 dollar link doesn't have that problem. That is an insanely good price.

From my experience the problems with the Link are mostly problems with stock components that the link doesn't replace.

Main shortcomings:
-retains stock fuel rail and stock coilpacks
-uses one byte for manifold pressure so >23 psi is out of the question
-ecu defaults are a bit limp-wristed IMO, but they work fine and you can easily tune for more power. Example: on the old motor/turbo, ecu defaults at 12 psi was worth 190whp on the stock fuel rail. Dyno said I was running 10.5:1 AFR. Removing a pile of fuel and adding 2 degrees of timing got me a 30whp bump over the next 2 runs.
-ecu is stretched to the limit many times over in terms of features. There is no way to control additional outlets or log additional inputs. Also, a lot of stuff that other ECUs let you fiddle with are stuck in the firmware instead of the user-modifiable memory. (dwell, per-cylinder ign trim, sequential igns, etc). Not being able to datalog EGT is annoying.

What year/version of Link is this? What year motor? The various ECUs differ slightly in terms of capability. There is MK1 (1.6), MK2 (1.8) and MK2 Obiwan (96-97). I have the obiwan.

Beerslurpy,

Nice info. I've already got an AEM WB. Just not installed yet. I'll be dual feeding the stock rail. I have no aspirations to run 23psi on my stock motor so the limits shouldn't be a problem. I'd like to run a safe 11-12psi. Sounds like your 12psi tune for 220hp is just what I'm after. Looking for it to run hard and reliable. Don't want or need to push limits of the stock drivetrain. (except that weak little clutch I'm gonna have to replace.)

And 99 percent of link shortcomings can be worked around or ignored:
-I am still not at the limit of the stock ecu in terms of MAP values. I've realistically got another 2-3 psi left before it runs out of room. You will not find this a serious limitation for some time.
-Replace stock fuel rail, get wideband, get COPs.
-Most other things you would want to trigger with the ECU can be triggered the old fashioned way like the hot rod guys have been doing for decades. Pressure and temperature based switches wired in serial with what you want turned on. The aftermarket supplies pretty much every need that isn't satisfied by a 600 dollar Link.

If you do the AEM WB and a vishnu rail, I would expect > 220whp easily.

I would have dynoed much higher but I had collosal puke and die past 5500 rpms. Max power was at 6000 rpms. My engine was on the verge of crankwalking at that time, so lubrication might have been part of the problem. The inefficient T04B probably didn't help much either with it's 50 percent compressor efficiency at redline.

I also had a problem with boost control because my WG was set at 3 psi and I wasn't able to ramp up the WG solenoid duty cycle enough to maintain full boost up to redline. I had ironed out these problems and was getting ready for another dyno and a track day when I crankwalked. Instead of dynoing again, I had to drive the OTM for a month while I had the engine rebuilt. I never got back to dyno again since then. I really need to find one.

COP's really make that big of difference? I'm trying to keep this reasonable both in cost and complexity. I looked at a couple of threads about them but I'm not sure how significant the gains are on a stock block at the power levels I'm looking at. I'm not bagging on them, I really don't know how significant they are. If I can pick up hp at a given pressure or be able to run the same hp at a lower pressure I'll take a look at them. What're the advantages and gains?

At higher RPM, the stock miata coils lose their ability to push enough spark. This shows up as minor knock sensor irritation that rapidly builds as RPM climbs. Jason C and others theorized that the engine starts leaving partially combusted crap in the cylinders each cycle. I can't find the datalog, but past around 6500-7000 rpm you see a parabolic upwards arc of knock increasing. Nothing catastrophic, but the engine is doing that instead of making power. It's only a little bit of power being lost at the upper end of the powerband, but I'd like to get rid of it and rest easy.

COPS arent a set in stone requirement, but I suspect they will help, especially if you are running suboptimal air/fuel mixtures.

if you switch to a 3 or 4 bar MAP sensor, the link will handle it but u need to scale the rows accordingly. I asked Ray about this some time back...;)

EGT can be datalogged, but you can log only 1 ext input, so u can't do WB02 at the same time.

it's a fairly basic ecu don't forget, and priced accordingly :bigtu:

Oh crap you're right, the link is just scaling the byte to the voltage signal. Durrr. Do you know what MAP sensor it uses? GM?

Yeah I'm stupid for not thinking of that after all the work I did on my datalogger.

And yeah, I have wideband so EGT is not really high on my list of priorities. It's really just a sort of OH SHI- gauge now so I can spot something egregiously wrong.