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Old 04-29-2010, 02:48 AM   #1
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Default ****I want YOUR input on my next setup****

Ok kiddies, so for my next trick I decided to do a bigger setup as discussed in
THIS THREAD

Here is what I'm considering right now, I want you to tell me what you think and what you would do differently:

1) turbo:
Decided to try my luck with chinachargers. I want an internally gated churbo, and kinda have my eye on this little guy:



specs:
gt3076r internal wastegate turbo charger

Intake :4 inch
Outlet: 2.5 inch
Compressor trim: 70 ar
Compressor Wheel diameter: 59.00 / 73.05
Turbine wheel diameter : 47.05 / 54.50
Exhaust trim: .86ar
Turbine flange type: t25 flange
Downpipe flange type : 2.5 v band
Cooling type: oil and water cool
Horsepower rating: 500hp
(wet float bearing)
actuator set at : 14.5psi


2)manifold
****edit:
Just bought a BEGi s4 stainless steel tubular manifold

(one of the reasons I went with this also is that it has a more or less "standard" mounting position so other turbo's will slip right on if I decide to change my turbo later)

3) intercooler
For my intercooler I will be doing it "in between condenser/radiator" Just like Patsmx5 did on his setup for that ultimate INVISIBLE intercooler sleeper look
Going with this little guy:


specs:
27x12x3 with 2.5" inlet/outlets from cxracing


4) exhaust
Going to be making my own full 3" custom exhaust similar to the last one but a little more free flowing.

5) injectors
Since Emilio posted his PLUG AND PLAY 1000cc injectors available for our cars now I don't see any better solution, so I'm going to get these little guys:



6) pump
Going with a walbro255 since I'll have to pump a shitload of e85 to make up the 30% more of it than fuel




So this rough draft of a setup + my mildly built motor + E85 + adaptronic + 15-18psi = 300-350whp????? Or am I crazy? Or dreaming? Or forgetting something?


PLEASE provide input and opinions. I'm definitely no noob to this **** but am only human and need as much advice as I can get

TIA

Last edited by 18psi; 05-06-2010 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:54 AM   #2
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What turbo manifold you going with?
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:56 AM   #3
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You got a thing for little guys huh?

Can't wait to see where this ends up, good luck squeezing some more power out of you car, I remember the thread when you got the damn things till
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Old 04-29-2010, 03:04 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turotufas View Post
What turbo manifold you going with?
Oh crap almost forgot. Updated. Thanx

Quote:
Originally Posted by KPLAFIN View Post
You got a thing for little guys huh?

Can't wait to see where this ends up, good luck squeezing some more power out of you car, I remember the thread when you got the damn things till


8psi on my gt28 equivelant got boring within 6 months. 10psi got boring in 4 more. 12-14psi was pretty exciting and didn't get bored of it but decided to upgrade anyways since I know I'll eventually get bored of that too.

I have a disease. Only cure is MOARRRR BOOSTTTT
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:00 AM   #5
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Go with a shorter, thicker intercooler if possible. Pat is having cooling issues with his I believe. Honestly, I'd try to buy a 4-5" thick intercooler with similar dimensions length and width as a half core radiator. Then buy a half core radiator. The end result should be a pretty efficient system for lapping. Either way, DO NOT cover your radiator up and expect everything to be great. I'd go no taller than 8" on the intercooler. I know they cost a lot more, but a 600hp Precision intercooler is basically what you want.

Buy a HP version of the Walbro.

I'd use an Evo8 turbo instead. OEM quality. Will make 350whp with ease. Really efficient(very similar powerband to a GT28rs). Can't use an off the shelf manifold UNLESS you have a custom adapter plate made. That would probably cost $65.

Contact vrsexhaust for a prebent exhaust kit. You can't beat their prices and quality. I haven't used their kits on a Miata, but they fit great on Hondas and Acuras. The quote I got for my 99 was 2.5 inch - 304ss $165.00, Mild $125.00. 3.0" - 304ss $215.00, Mild $150.00 with $25.00 for shipping. No muffler. Everything is slip fit with about 1.5' excess for easy install. They also include clamps(I'd weld) and hangers to use with your stock mounts.
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:12 AM   #6
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Walbro's not rated for E85, at least they say it isn't. I'm looking at a Bosch 044, just haven't worked out mounting yet.

Also, you need an IM other than the POS stock '99+ to make much more than 300whp. With a good IM and a 2871/3071R sized turbo, you should be making 300whp at 12-14psi, and 350 at probably 18 or so. Without the IM, you'll make like 260-270 at 12-14psi, 300 at 18psi.
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Old 04-29-2010, 07:29 AM   #7
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+1 on fabbing an intake manifold, and get something besides a log exhaust mani. ARTech, WANKERflow, and ABSURDflow manis should all be more than dependable on the street. I forget which ones make them for the 1.8L...

The more build threads I look at the more I see it's about getting the absolute best flow through your motor. You have an intake manifold made for midrange torque at ~100whp. You are looking at an exhaust mani made to be flow ~200-250whp since that's as far as stock rods go anyways. And you've already got the best head, so you might as well augment it.

Any build I'd consider worth my time again now that I've stepped out would include all of the above, and probably cams as well.

Good choice on injectors, only way I'd do it next time around, but get an intercooler with better endtanks.

All applications for baller status must be complete and submitted by August 1st in order to be approved.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:01 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Walbro's not rated for E85, at least they say it isn't. I'm looking at a Bosch 044, just haven't worked out mounting yet.

Also, you need an IM other than the POS stock '99+ to make much more than 300whp. With a good IM and a 2871/3071R sized turbo, you should be making 300whp at 12-14psi, and 350 at probably 18 or so. Without the IM, you'll make like 260-270 at 12-14psi, 300 at 18psi.
Meh, I'm making almost 290 on a 2560R, 1.9, 2000 head w/ OS valves, E85. I got rid of the VICS, otherwise the IM is stock. That's at 13-14 psi. Granted, he'll have an uphill battle, and will have to tune it for bear, but he can get there.

BTW, I'm using the Walbro 255, despite the E85 warnings. Haven't had it long. I can't believe that it'll fall out right away. Next year's project will be to do a Bosch pump and new fuel lines out back. Please keep us posted on mounting the 044. The Wally couldn't have been easier to put in.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:03 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
The more build threads I look at the more I see it's about getting the absolute best flow through your motor. You have an intake manifold made for midrange torque at ~100whp. You are looking at an exhaust mani made to be flow ~200-250whp since that's as far as stock rods go anyways. And you've already got the best head, so you might as well augment it.
Am I the only one that noticed the ridiculous necked down portion on the 99/00 IM right past the tb and before you get to the plenum. It's kinked right over like my manmember. WTF?
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:25 AM   #10
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Go for the delta fin intercooler over that CX racing bar N plate. Same price, better flow to the other exchangers and improved intake air temps.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:38 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webby459 View Post
BTW, I'm using the Walbro 255, despite the E85 warnings. Haven't had it long. I can't believe that it'll fall out right away. Next year's project will be to do a Bosch pump and new fuel lines out back. Please keep us posted on mounting the 044. The Wally couldn't have been easier to put in.
Buddy has run a 255HP for around 3 years now on E85 with 0 problems. The vast majority of fuel pumps are designed to handle alcohol anyway. Just be wary of knock-off 255s. There are some very good copies out there and I have no idea how they perform.

With the cooling properties of E85 do the amount injected and the way alcohol flash-evaporates, my guess is that you wont have a lot of trouble in terms of actual density past the intake valve. But that does not mean your temp sensor will see that cooling. Might be a bit of a tuning issue more than anything else.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:51 AM   #12
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You said you want it, but you don't want my input. Good luck on the new build!
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:40 AM   #13
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my input: buy my car and put in bigger injectors.

you're crazy if you think an internal gate is a good idea on a 3076.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparetire View Post
you wont have a lot of trouble in terms of actual density past the intake valve. But that does not mean your temp sensor will see that cooling. Might be a bit of a tuning issue more than anything else.
Wat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
you're crazy if you think an internal gate is a good idea on a 3076.
I'll give +1 to this.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:47 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwig View Post
Go with a shorter, thicker intercooler if possible. Pat is having cooling issues with his I believe. Honestly, I'd try to buy a 4-5" thick intercooler with similar dimensions length and width as a half core radiator. Then buy a half core radiator. The end result should be a pretty efficient system for lapping. Either way, DO NOT cover your radiator up and expect everything to be great. I'd go no taller than 8" on the intercooler. I know they cost a lot more, but a 600hp Precision intercooler is basically what you want.

Buy a HP version of the Walbro.

I'd use an Evo8 turbo instead. OEM quality. Will make 350whp with ease. Really efficient(very similar powerband to a GT28rs). Can't use an off the shelf manifold UNLESS you have a custom adapter plate made. That would probably cost $65.

Contact vrsexhaust for a prebent exhaust kit. You can't beat their prices and quality. I haven't used their kits on a Miata, but they fit great on Hondas and Acuras. The quote I got for my 99 was 2.5 inch - 304ss $165.00, Mild $125.00. 3.0" - 304ss $215.00, Mild $150.00 with $25.00 for shipping. No muffler. Everything is slip fit with about 1.5' excess for easy install. They also include clamps(I'd weld) and hangers to use with your stock mounts.
Pat is having cooling issues? Aw **** I'll have to talk to him then, cause from what he's been telling me everything is working 100% great.
Only problem with going shorter/thicker is it won't fit nearly as well so I may as well just do the traditional routing...damn it

Evo8 turbo's are not all that cheap or common around these parts and the fact that it requires a special (non standard) flange is a complete deal breaker for me.

Never heard of vrsexhaust, do they have a website?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Walbro's not rated for E85, at least they say it isn't. I'm looking at a Bosch 044, just haven't worked out mounting yet.

Also, you need an IM other than the POS stock '99+ to make much more than 300whp. With a good IM and a 2871/3071R sized turbo, you should be making 300whp at 12-14psi, and 350 at probably 18 or so. Without the IM, you'll make like 260-270 at 12-14psi, 300 at 18psi.
Really? damn. I know a ton of people in the subaru community running the 255 wally with e85 successfully.

I'll call em up and see what they say, but I'm guessing they'll say "use at your own risk" or something like that lol.

Regarding the manifold, I was kinda afraid of that. but in teh back of my mind knew it was only a matter of time before itd get too restrictive for me.

I'm looking at Jay's dyno plots, and looks like he hit a bit over 300whp on the stock manifold so I'm going to aim for that at first I guess, and once I get there I'll start on a honda manifold similar to yours
Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
+1 on fabbing an intake manifold, and get something besides a log exhaust mani. ARTech, WANKERflow, and ABSURDflow manis should all be more than dependable on the street. I forget which ones make them for the 1.8L...

The more build threads I look at the more I see it's about getting the absolute best flow through your motor. You have an intake manifold made for midrange torque at ~100whp. You are looking at an exhaust mani made to be flow ~200-250whp since that's as far as stock rods go anyways. And you've already got the best head, so you might as well augment it.

Any build I'd consider worth my time again now that I've stepped out would include all of the above, and probably cams as well.

Good choice on injectors, only way I'd do it next time around, but get an intercooler with better endtanks.

All applications for baller status must be complete and submitted by August 1st in order to be approved.
I don't have stock rods mayne
Quote:
Originally Posted by webby459 View Post
Am I the only one that noticed the ridiculous necked down portion on the 99/00 IM right past the tb and before you get to the plenum. It's kinked right over like my manmember. WTF?
I noticed it too...this was my reaction:
Quote:
Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
Go for the delta fin intercooler over that CX racing bar N plate. Same price, better flow to the other exchangers and improved intake air temps.
can't find one in the same size but I'll keep looking I guess
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparetire View Post
Buddy has run a 255HP for around 3 years now on E85 with 0 problems. The vast majority of fuel pumps are designed to handle alcohol anyway. Just be wary of knock-off 255s. There are some very good copies out there and I have no idea how they perform.

With the cooling properties of E85 do the amount injected and the way alcohol flash-evaporates, my guess is that you wont have a lot of trouble in terms of actual density past the intake valve. But that does not mean your temp sensor will see that cooling. Might be a bit of a tuning issue more than anything else.
I'll be getting mine from a well known vendor
I wasn't even aware there were fakes. WOW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post
You said you want it, but you don't want my input. Good luck on the new build!
I have a feeling I know what it will be, but YES I DO want your opinion man.

(I'll bet it will be "go v8 damn it")
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:49 AM   #16
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To be completely honest with you guys I'm heavily considering just selling this thing and getting an s2000. So much flow related bullshit on these miata's that a honda motor simply doesn't have its not even funny.

With an s2k I'd be able to run a 30r @ 12psi or so on stock internals, make 400+ and the only supporting drivetrain mods would be a clutch and stronger rear diff.

We'll see.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:52 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webby459 View Post
Wat?



I'll give +1 to this.
Me fail inglish, thats unpossible!

Let me try again coherently this time:
E85 requires a higher volume of liquid injected to reach stoich. The greater volume does a LOT to cool the mix as it goes int the head. The fact that alcohol absorbs heat so readily (though it has a low specific heat) also helps a lot. Some alky burning drag engines have trouble getting to proper temp because of this. Actually run too cool.

Point being, with E85, you have a bit more leeway on intercooling due to the cooling effects of the fuel. But, those effects are not going to be seen by an IAT sensor unless you put it in the head or soemthing. So there might be some tuning hassles if you have a small intercooler even though the actual charge density and temperature going by the intake valve is good.

And a 3076 probably needs an EWG less than a 2560 if creep is the main concern.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:55 AM   #18
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Quote:
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I'll be getting mine from a well known vendor
I wasn't even aware there were fakes. WOW
A DSM vendor posted up an email he received from a factory rep in China that basically had pis of their knock off and informed him that they can stamp just about any leters or logos he wants on it. Just bald-faced putting it out there.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:56 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I have a feeling I know what it will be, but YES I DO want your opinion man.

(I'll bet it will be "go v8 damn it")
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
To be completely honest with you guys I'm heavily considering just selling this thing and getting an s2000.
Either option will set you back the same amount (total cost) and yield the same performance so it then comes down to car preference. You still have a high strung 350 WHP Miata, 400 WHP S2000 or a near stock LS1 Miata.

Me? We will see how I like the V8 Miata. Otherwise, I can sell it for pretty good money and there is a turbo LS1 FD that I could pick up for around $18K. It isn't "for sale" but everything is for sale.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:59 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparetire View Post
not going to be seen by an IAT sensor unless you put it in the head or soemthing. So there might be some tuning hassles if you have a small intercooler even though the actual charge density and temperature going by the intake valve is good.
I think you may be zeroing in on inventing the EGT sensor/gauge?

I still fail to envision "tuning hassles" associated with low charge temps once you are warmed up, which, believe me, I have no problems with. I'm not even trying to be a dick, I just think you are overthinking something, but not sure what...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparetire View Post
And a 3076 probably needs an EWG less than a 2560 if creep is the main concern.
Funny, maybe someone very smarter than me can explain why, but I saw more creep with my 2560R at 10-11 target than at 14-15 target. I actually had problems maintaining boost at the higher target .
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