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DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

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Old 04-29-2010, 11:16 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webby459 View Post
I think you may be zeroing in on inventing the EGT sensor/gauge?

I still fail to envision "tuning hassles" associated with low charge temps once you are warmed up, which, believe me, I have no problems with. I'm not even trying to be a dick, I just think you are overthinking something, but not sure what...
I am over-thinking. Probably becuase I have not tned with speed-density myself. But my thinking is that if an intercooler is too small and you have high IATs with an E85 car, you probably still have good density at the intake valve due to the E85 properties. But a sensor will not see that, and further a big temp diff as seen by the sensor might not really translate to a big temp/density diff at the intake valve, making tuning a little odd in terms of sprak tables as relates to IAT data. I could be very, very wrong there. The main point is that I dont think he needs to worry too much about having the best FMIC.

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Originally Posted by webby459 View Post
Funny, maybe someone very smarter than me can explain why, but I saw more creep with my 2560R at 10-11 target than at 14-15 target. I actually had problems maintaining boost at the higher target .
What wastegate? Same unit at both boost levels? What spring was in it, and what sort of boost control device used?
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:40 AM   #22
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^Dude, E85 isn't magical, like a 5th injector!

In seriousness, you may be more or less right to some degree. But, I'm still of the mind of getting the most efficient intercooling I can afford and letting the sweet stink of alcohol give me a little extra safety.


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Originally Posted by Sparetire View Post
What wastegate? Same unit at both boost levels? What spring was in it, and what sort of boost control device used?
Duh, um, stock 2560R gate...Same unit, it ran around 9-10 psi creepy when the mbc was totally slacked off. I'm using a spring and ball mbc, baller brass H-D racing style, afaik not vented with a weep hole or whatever. I just switched it to ref right before the 90* curve before the throttle plate.

I was thinking it was creeping just because it's creepy at low boost and at high boost it was gasping and out of wheel. I'll tell you, though, the creep at low boost flattened the curve so well I'd put my dinner on it without being worried it would fall off. I wish I could get it to behave like that at 15 psi.

Aside, how did Paul (I think it was) get such high boost out of a 2560R??
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:49 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post

I don't have stock rods mayne
What is it with cali dudes and reading comprehension?

jk


I was pointing out that FM never needed to make the log manis flow for 300whp build because the majority of their customers are still on stock rods, and those that aren't are looking elsewhere.

Yes, you can get there on the manifold you pictured, but why miss out when you're going all out. Longevity doesn't seem like a good argument to miss spool and flow since I'm sure the custom jobs being made now will stand the test of time.


In smaller words:

Why are you considering using an intake mani designed for 118whp, and an exhaust mani designed for 250whp when you want 300?
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:53 AM   #24
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Gosped, find me an intake mani for 300+ wheel? Why is this the hardest item to come by for our crap boxes when it may well be the most necessary?
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:58 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webby459 View Post
Gosped, find me an intake mani for 300+ wheel? Why is this the hardest item to come by for our crap boxes when it may well be the most necessary?
1. Buy Skunk2/Blox B18 mani
2. Buy LS throttle body
3. Cut both manis strategically
4. ???
5. Profit like Andrew motherfuckin' Kidd


This **** isn't hard, and if you know a guy with a bandsaw and can find a decent tig shop it can be done for half what most custom manis cost.

EDIT: I really wish I had finished the built motor, finished this manifold project, and brought back the back-to-back dyno plots to show you guys...but I fail. Talk to Sav about how he feels on the subject, and wait for levnubhin's results. If Phil doesn't see at least 10% more up top I'll stfu. I know this has been discussed to death so maybe you guys are jaded, but this time next year no one will buy rods without sourcing a $120 Honda mani as well. For the "DIY" crowd we sure are a bunch of trendy *************.
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:01 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post

In smaller words:

Why are you considering using an intake mani designed for 118whp, and an exhaust mani designed for 250whp when you want 300?
Same reason you are driving a car designed for 90whp at twice the power

On a serious note though: I know what you mean, but the only readily available tubular manifolds that won't break the bank would be the begi s4 from what I know. Like I said, tim is busy and can't have one ready for me in a few weeks, and I don't have the time to make one myself.

I guess I'll keep looking for a better solution then. Didn't know the logs were maxed out at 250whp
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:05 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Didn't know the logs were maxed out at 250whp
They don't really max...but what kind of pressure ratio was Phil pushing just to hit 288?...something like 1.5? Granted it's a 1.6L, but you've got the extra displacement, the good head, and are looking at very efficient turbos.

Pick your bottleneck.

Last edited by gospeed81; 04-29-2010 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:42 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
They don't really max...but what kind of pressure ratio was Phil pushing just to hit 288?...something like 1.5? Granted it's a 1.6L, but you've got the extra displacement, the good head, and are looking at very efficient turbos.

Pick you bottleneck.


22 psi to hit 280 with the cast man. But I also had a small 2.5" dp on a 1.6 with a shittier head and a shittier intake mani.

18, can't artech make you a mani?

Here's why you dont want a cast mani. Both runs at pretty much the same boost level, just a new absurd flow replica mani with 3" dp. With your 1.8, your head and the blox intake mani, I bet this would be well over 350 whp.


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Old 04-29-2010, 12:45 PM   #29
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I think ARtech does great work and his mani's are beautiful but i'm really not a fan of the log design of them (or at least the ones I've seen). It doesnt' look any more efficient than the FM cast log to me. I could be wrong. If I'm going with a log I want it to at least be a completely bulletproof log and not a tubular with the same design.
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:47 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I think ARtech does great work and his mani's are beautiful but i'm really not a fan of the log design of them (or at least the ones I've seen). It doesnt' look any more efficient than the FM cast log to me. I could be wrong. If I'm going with a log I want it to at least be a completely bulletproof log and not a tubular with the same design.

I bet he could make pretty much anything you want.
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:56 PM   #31
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Ok guys, what about this plan:

I really don't want to start on an intake mani build just yet, nor do I want to spend a **** ton of money for a custom tubular manifold just yet, and since the general opinion is that the 30r will suck ***** in internally gated form what about a slightly smaller setup with a slightly lower power goal?

instead of the 30r how about a 2876 with a .86 hotside, tubular mani, e85, 750cc injectors (may still need to go with the 1000's though), 3" full exhaust, and traditionally mounted intercooler with a smaller core (and perhaps more efficient design)


Quote:
Originally Posted by levnubhin View Post
I bet he could make pretty much anything you want.
I'll bet you are right. So instead of compulsive buying I think I'll just contact him and get some quotes. Thanx man
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:59 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
what about a slightly smaller setup with a slightly lower power goal?
Yes, because when the hot chick says no just take the fat chick home.


EDIT: This is totally just my opinion from the outside looking in.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:04 PM   #33
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Needs EWG

IWG are the gayest thing in the world
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:05 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
Yes, because when the hot chick says no just take the fat chick home.


EDIT: This is totally just my opinion from the outside looking in.
I've got to go with Damon on this one.

If you have a goal in mind, are you:
1. Really going to be happy shooting for something lower.
&
2. Doing EVERYTHING AGAIN LATER when you realize that what you did the first time isn't cutting it?


You want to run a Big turbo ->
Step 1: Buy an ETD mani
Step 2: Cut that **** off and weld it on upside down
Step 3: Ball hard.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:09 PM   #35
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The turbo you showed in your first post actually specs out to be a rough equivalent to a gt2873 give or take a millimeter. The Chinese ebay turbos are never exactly the size they are advertised in the title so, just like in the gym class showers, always compare measurements.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:17 PM   #36
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IIRC the eBay delta fin that matches your desired size is listed at 31" because they count the actual bosses/flanges for the tubing in the overall length.

If Pat is having overheating issues then something else is wrong. I've got my radiator covered with the AC condenser, oil cooler and intercooler and don't have overheating issues in stop-and-go traffic on 100F ambient day.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:29 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
Yes, because when the hot chick says no just take the fat chick home.


EDIT: This is totally just my opinion from the outside looking in.

When the hot chick will cost you a **** ton of money and tell you to grow out your dick and get a vasectomy before she'll **** you I'd tend to wanna go for the slightly less hot chick that isn't as demanding

I get your point man, thing is: I was HAPPY at 250whp (or roughly that much according to butt dyno) and don't REALLY need 350whp. I'd honestly be happy with 300. Hell I'd probably be happy with 280-290.

Biggest thing for me is this: if the difference between high 290's low 300's and 350-400 is THAT much more work/money (intake mani, more expensive exhaust mani, etc etc) then I would much rather just stay at nigh 200's low 300's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_Ciesielski View Post
I've got to go with Damon on this one.

If you have a goal in mind, are you:
1. Really going to be happy shooting for something lower.
&
2. Doing EVERYTHING AGAIN LATER when you realize that what you did the first time isn't cutting it?


You want to run a Big turbo ->
Step 1: Buy an ETD mani
Step 2: Cut that **** off and weld it on upside down
Step 3: Ball hard.
etd is nice but for the price of their shorty alone I could have a begi s5 mani
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:31 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
The turbo you showed in your first post actually specs out to be a rough equivalent to a gt2873 give or take a millimeter. The Chinese ebay turbos are never exactly the size they are advertised in the title so, just like in the gym class showers, always compare measurements.
SERIOUSLY?

(you can tell I'm a noob cause I know dick about wheel sizing for different turbo's)

If that is the case then that's the one I'll get. If not I'll get the one they advertise as a 2876.

I DID notice that comparing the specs of this sucker (in original post) to my previous hks 2535 it isn't THAT much bigger than my hks.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:33 PM   #39
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I dont like seeing you (a fellow diyer) buying off the shelf parts. It hurts me a little inside.

You should make another mani like mine/your old one but bottom mount. Get a new 1/2" weirtech head flange and do a Neo. Take your current mani to the machine shop and have them cut the flange off, flip it around and weld it onto the 1/2" head flange from Weir. You'll have less warping issues (i would hope) and you'll still have a pimpin DIY manifold. Get a turnbuckle/heim brace and call it a day. I'm going to have to do this soon as well (since my head flange is toast). You'll save lots of money too.

Than make a 3" downpipe.

You only drive on the street. You dont need something that will survive a nuclear explosion.

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Old 04-29-2010, 01:48 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayne_curr View Post
I dont like seeing you (a fellow diyer) buying off the shelf parts. It hurts me a little inside.

You should make another mani like mine/your old one but bottom mount. Get a new 1/2" weirtech head flange and do a Neo. Take your current mani to the machine shop and have them cut the flange off, flip it around and weld it onto the 1/2" head flange from Weir. You'll have less warping issues (i would hope) and you'll still have a pimpin DIY manifold. Get a turnbuckle/heim brace and call it a day. I'm going to have to do this soon as well (since my head flange is toast). You'll save lots of money too.

Than make a 3" downpipe.

You only drive on the street. You dont need something that will survive a nuclear explosion.

1) I already sold my mani
2) It kept warping like a BITCH. No idea why, since I made it just like many others made theirs and used the same materials. I'd do a long pull from 1st all the way to 5th or roughly 120mph and that would be enough for one of the flanges to start leaking. Resurfaced it like 2-3 times. Got sick of it. It was probably something I was doing wrong, cause the manifold was strong as hell and built right.
3) I don't have time right now to do any of my own diy stuff unfortunately.

If I can't get something tubular without breaking the bank and the log won't work then I guess I'll have no choice but to make my own (or wait til I have the time to do it), but I want to exhaust my other options 1st.

As for 3" downpipe I am absolutely going to run one.
I'll be running a full 3" very well flowing exhaust on my new setup
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