1.8 swap idiot
 

So this is probably the wrong section of the wrong forum on the wrong part of the interwebz but here is the beginning of my build anyway.

A while back I sold my 2010 wrx because I wanted to actually build something and bought a 1990 mariner blue mazda maita
Starting off with no knowledge as to how to get started I spent hours scrolling forums, brushing the cobwebs off a few decade old ones and finally ordering parts this week, here is what I have coming so far!!!!!!!


First off the engine is out at the machine shop having the bores aligned, honed and slightly over bored. Next they are balancing the rotating assembly and doing a little cleanup on the head( no major porting just a lil bit of smoothing.
here are the parts i've got coming:

*boundary engineering oil pump

*ati super damper

*Turosmart plumb back bypass valve

*fab9 intercooler

*AEM boost gauge wide band combo

*act XTSS full face clutch kit (315ft lbs XD)

*stock 1.8 flywheel ( to save transmission and inprove idle/ clutch chatter)

*Kraken cast manifold and turbo outlet

*3" stailess steel piping to make exhaust

*MegaSquirt 3pro pnp

*700cc Deatschworks(probably spelled it wrong) injectors

*AWR performance engine mounts(70 durometer)

Still waiting on machine shop to order:

*supertech 8.8:1 compression pistons w/ wisco rings

*manly h beams

*king thrust bearings, rod bearings, and main bearings

*some random gasket kit, maybe cometic

*gt2560, still waiting on a good deal, maybe around Christmas

*boost soleniod

*oil/ water lines
and that just about wraps it up, if you have any good info on places to buy any of the things I still need please hmu, otherwise thanks for stopping by and have a good one!!!!

What is you heat management solution? What year head? What year head gasket? Has your radiator turned into a brown timebomb? Are you planning on doing a coolant reroute? A common solution is to use a 94-00 HG, and a reroute like the supermiata coolant reroute kit. If you do so, decide what you want to do with the front coolant neck before you put the timing belt on.

Make sure you only use OEM seals for cams/FMS/RMS, & the 1/2 moon gaskets for the pan.

It's easy to weld turbo oil drain & oil temp sensor bungs in when the engine is apart. Pick your locations wisely.

Are you doing anything with the power steering? If you go for the common depower mod, it's a little easier to get at with the engine out.

Throw the factory clutch hard line in the trash & replace with flexible aftermarket. Also replace your clutch slave cyl because I 100% guarantee you it's bad.

Refurb transmission while it's apart. At a minimum, do the F&R seals.

NB starters weigh 4 lbs less, but only 2 bolts line up. Works guud.

You're also getting rid of the 6" dif, right? Right???

What's your spark solution? Factory will work within limits

Are you going to wire for sequential fuel? You should.


Pretty good path thus far tho. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for all the advice, its going to be all the small details that will end up taking all my time XD.
I'm thinking of making my own coolant re rout, and using an koyo or mishimoto rad.
As for the transmission all the seals actually look to be in fantastic condition, and i'll be upgrading to a six speed anyway as soon as budget allows.
I already have an nb diff, half shafts, and drive shaft so I think i'm good in that department. As for power steering i already have the pump out and am looking at the fm de powered rack kit.
As for the clutch lines and slave cylinder I will heed your advice and replace it all ( nothing worse than a leaky master or slave, or a mushy clutch for that matter.
For spark I am going to start with stock coils and eventually switch over to sequential but it will probably be batch in the beginning.
I've gone way overboard with a ms3pro pnp so it will be able to handle anything I throw at it (Super stoked for proper traction control!)
When you say "pick your location wisely" for sensors what do you mean?

Thanks for the advice man, I'm using the original na6 head, and for heat management i'll probably fab up some sort of home brew re rout.
As for spark solution are the factory coils not enough, what limits will I encounter? Thanks in advance!:)

original 1.6L head on a 1.8 block? How does that work exactly??

Its a 1.6 block, the title is a prediction:rofl:

I see. Lol.

there is a new vendor here selling new 2560r turbos for $700. That's a great deal on a brand new one.

Factory coils will let you down sooner, or later. And, if you're going FI, that'll happen sooner. Most of the "cool kids" are using GM coils, and I saw a thread last week where someone was making/selling a PNP wiring loom that will make that conversion easy-peasy.

Rebuilding a 1.6 is rediculous. In terms of $$/hp, it is an enormous waste of coin. Good luck

:inout:

You're spending a lot of money to run a 2560. Just rods would handle that turbo totally maxed out.

I'm still on stock NA8 coils at 17psi on a ebay 2871 ~270whp. NGK iridium plugs at 0.025 gap.

You're not wrong however I think there is a lot of value in doing something right and doing it once 😂. And with my setup the way is is I could toss in a new turbo with minimal effort and be pushing over 300 wheel. For the moment I'm hoping to be around 280whp on 91 but if that is pushing the car I'll happily settle for less;)

Thanks for saying it nicely 😁. If I were just going for as much power as possible I wouldn't have a 1.6 or a 1.8, I'm just seeing what the lil bugger can do 😁 .

Who is it? I would hop on that immediately!

Your money, but we have very different opinions on the right way to do what you're trying to do.

I'd be very very surprised to see 280 whp out of a 2560 on a 1.6 with stock head and intake.

I strive to impress

That would be me :D
Thread is here for your convenience https://www.miataturbo.net/miata-par...harness-98521/

Are you spending all that money machining and building a 1.6? Why ... ?

It's not your money, lol.

I definitely expected this question, which is which I chose the title 😂 but it's totally valid and I've asked myself too. What it comes down to is that a 1.8 with the same work done as a 1.6, from my research, doesn't seem to make much more power. Stock the 1.6 makes about 20hp less and it makes sense to me that this offset continues with boost.

Then there is also the aspect of trying to see what a small engine can do. Kinda an experiment😁. Working with a smaller engine will force me to make my setup more efficient. Anyway to each their own, but no matter whether I use a 1.6 or 1.8 I think we can agree, this car is going to be awesome!

why do you think the difference between a turbo 1.6 and a turbo 1.8 will be drastically different than the difference stock, which is only 20hp😥

It's not about the 20 hp difference, a 1.6 can be made to make Power, but it's about a satisfying Driving Experience in which the 1.8 provides much more lower and torque much quicker spool and more torque overall than the 1.6 which on the street makes for a much more pleasant turbo car driving

Again, that's a good point but I thinking by using a kraken manifold and a 3" exhaust all the way much of the spool issue should be improved I think. And for the torque do lower compression Pistons not feel more tourqy on boost?

It can be done.

Generally speaking a given engine will double its output if you double the atmosphere going into it. It then follows roughly that a 20 horsepower difference will be a 40 horsepower difference. Many would consider the difference between 200 horsepower and 240 horsepower to be noteworthy given a similar price and effort.

But yes, it is possible to turbocharge a 1.6.

It should be noted that most turbos will spool up several hundred RPM earlier on the 1.8 engine.

I'll start off by saying I have no experience with the 1.6 or even a turbo 1.6. But from what everyone says and what I read is that it's more than just a 20 hp difference as Borka pointed out. I can't find the specific dyno picture (he has them overlaid in one picture) Shiuend likes to share in regards to his MKturbo set up, but here are some dyno plots (from MKturbo) comparing the MKturbo kit (I believe comparing stock for stock) on a 1.6 vs 1.8.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...9db31d8338.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...561d1f54b7.jpg


While peak power isn't much different and can be compared to the 20hp difference you mention. Just looking at the area under the curve for power and torque under 4k is where the difference truly lies for street driveability. While I know your plan is to build your 1.6 this maybe something to consider.

honestly I think a few extra psi will make up the difference and I'm too far down the rabbit whole anyway to switch. With that said I think I will be able to make more than enough power to suit my earlier goals.
The only thing I really have left to decide is whether I go with a gt2560r or a gt2860. From my very basic understanding of turbo's the 2860 will give me higher hp and later spool and the 2560 will do the inverse. With that said what do you guys prefer?
I'm leaning on the side of the 2560 for the sake of street drivability and quicker spool, while still being able to get a 260-270whp number. Is this way out of the ballpark for this turbo on a 1.6?

It remains to be said that 1.6 vs 1.8 isn't just a difference in bore and stroke - head/manifold design has changed as well. These are factors change that 20hp difference when boost is introduced.

again, its a good point and i'm not disagreeing however i think the 1.8 vs 1.6 discussion has been beaten to death, and in my case there is really no point to thinking about it because I have invested a few thousand in my engine already. That being said maybe while i'm enjoying my current build I will follow in the car passions channels foot steps and build a vvt engine, however for now I am completely set on my current path, thanks for the input tho!

The 2560 is a better match for a 1.6 street car.

On a 1.6L
2560 will make power around 4k rpm
2860 closer to 5k rpm.

2560 is the wiser choice.

deduct 600 or so rpm with a vvt 1.8

ok cool, i think you're right on the 2560 call, and with that good price I think its a no brainer, i'll order one tonight. In reference to the power this is likely to make is 240-260whp is range accurate with 8.8:1 pistons n 91 realistic?

im fairly sure you can make around ~260hp on a 2560r. with a 1.6L.

for reference, my 2560r at 17psi on a 1.8 vvt engine made 265hp. but my tune was pig rich around 10afr, so with proper fueling of 11.4, i think it would yield around 280hp.

I just picked up a used 2560 and had looked at every dyno sheet I could find. I think that's the likely range you'll end up in.

Thanks guys, I'm super stoked for this project and your input means a lot, stay tuned for a sick build!

Alright, well just under a year later i have my 1990 miata running nicely with 400 miles on the new engine. Along the way I have realized a few critical things about such a build that I didn't take into account originally! first off I had no idea how stressful it is to start an engine built by ones self. Knowing that I put the piston rings definitely reduced my confidence that it wouldn't turn into metal shrapnel right off. When I first went to start the engine I had absolutely no luck. I couldn't seem to track down the issue, that is, until I realized the spark plug wires were out of order:noob:. Just in case anybody else this issue just make sure that the pistons that go up in pairs are on one coil pack, ie 1-4 3-2. As long as you do this seeing as the engine is batchfired it is sure to start.

After getting the car running I soon realized that heat management was indeed an issue, and that my gunk filled radiator wasn't going to cut it. Between a Front Mount Intercooler, and a turbo water line going directly into the mixing manifold(probably not the greatest idea ever) the car was hitting over 205 going up small hills, and if I accelerated at all would start to climb as well. My first step to remedy this was to flush the coolant, and seal any and all leaks I could find in the system, I then moved on to some ducting(i.e cardboard from under the front lip of the bumper to the front axel). The ducting actually had a fairly decent effect, but not nearly as much as getting both fans to turn on at a lower temperature. With the ms3pro pnp you can set up injector j to be the ac fan control super easily, its under programmable outputs. Well even with the combination of ducting and dual fans the car would get super hot up hills, but was not able to cruise at around 196-199. Compared with the 205-210 I was getting before I took this as a partial success, but still pulled the trigger on the miata compatible mishimoto radiator from FAB9Tuning. Let me just say, this thing seems to have had a bigger effect that all the other things combined.

With cooling out of the way I moved on to letting the car make actual power. During this whole period I was doing engine break in stuff, so bringing the engine up to about 4k rpm in 4th gear and then coasting back down to around 2k rpm. Apparently this process of exposing the cylinders to pressure and then vacuum allows the rings to seat better. I have also been using BR30 break in oil, I honestly have no idea if it is really all that special having no other data points but it gives me some peace of mind so I guess that's worth something.