Blown Turbo? Please Help
 

Ok so since I started my 1st turbo build months ago, pretty much everything that could have gone wrong....has. Including a fire which toasted a lot of parts.

Here are my symptoms.

Loss of power
Oil in the intake
Oil in the pipe from Turbo to IC and TB to IC.
Lots of white smoke instantly coming from turbo area on start up.
No smoke at idle
Lots of smoke at any kind of revs and no matter the engine temp.

My setup
2000 ls 1.8
7psi
16g turbo
FMIC
EMU

There is no coolant under the filler cap. I made a catch can but havent tried it yet to see if my PCV valve wasnt working at all in boost.

Everything has gone wrong with this car. So I just need some help gettin through this one. Thanks again

what size oil line going to the turbo? restrictor?

just a basic oil feedline like you see on all the turbo sites. 4 ft long.

+steelbraided

oh and im not getting full boost until about 4600. Running a BIG EVOIII 16g

-3an or -4an, are you using a restrictor?

No restrictor. I want to say -4an. Not 100%

I want to say you're over oiling it, but i also dunno if the engine isn't damaged.

what color is the smoke? I assume blue/white.

-4 will not over oil a 16g. they are internally restricted. kink or tight bend in oil return line will cause the oil to not get of the turbo.

Did you upgrade the PCV to a 323GTX PCV?

I'd like to see what a leakdown test says about the rings.....

yep, it's blown, time to /yourself

Is there oil in the compressor? +1 for a leak down test etc and I would look for a gasket leak or something on the boost you should have 7 psi by 3300-3600 or so easy. Did you clock the turbo on the compressor any that could cause slow boost if it is leaking. Also where was the fire? :eek:

Have you verified the condition of your PVC valve?
Is your valve cover breather line routed correctly?
Is your turbo mounted correctly (WITH THE OIL FEED AT 12o'clock and drain at 6o'clock?)
How is your drain mounted? Tap the pan beneath the turbo?

It'd be awesome if you took a couple pictures of your setup for us.

What was the condition of the turbo when you bought it? Used? Mileage? Previous application? Was there any shaft play?

Brain is right, it sounds like over-oiling or under-draining... but could just as easily be blown.

PCV was working but wasnt upgraded to handle the boost
Valve cover breather only has a filter on it..not routed anywhere
Oil feed/return at directly 12 and 6o'clock
The pan is tapped on the opposite side of the turbo.
There is a very slight kink several inches under the turbo, but if I press on the side of it to get the kink out and rev the car it still blows plooms of white smoke.. Otherwise the line is not restricted in anyway.
Turbo did have shaft play, I bought the entire kit off of here and every part of it has been either broken,lost or not working well.
SO I rebuilt it at home and got rid of the shaft play.

opposite side? like, the passenger side?

yes, the routing goes straight down from the turbo and then to the front of the car by the sway bar and then to the oil pan. Its a slow constant corkscrew shape

you may very well be the world's first turbo miata to have his oil return on passenger side.

Oil return lines are supposed to be mostly vertical. Straight up and down. When the oil comes out of the turbo, it's a little foamy and not pressurized, it needs the gravity to fall.

Combine a bad oil drain with a home brew rebuild, and I would think there's a good possibility that you're blowing by the seals.

The good news is, most of the time, if you fix the oil drain quckly, the turbo will be ok. You might shorten the life expectancy, but it'll recover..

http://forum.miata.net/vb/images/smi...smiley-034.gifDamn how did i miss that Piratem why oh why did you tap the pan on the other side from the turbo? There has to be a funny story somewhere in there http://forum.miata.net/vb/images/smi...smiley-034.gif

I doubt it's the problem. Ever see a GReddy kit return line?

I dont know if it looks a lot different on a 1.6, but on my NB I have ALOT of stuff in the way from the frame, cooling, and power steering. How do you drill and tap this hole without removing everything. The weird thing is how quickly it will blow out smoke. It will be cold motor and started only a second or two earlier and it will start plooming smoke. Can the oil really drain/heat up and the burn that quickly?

needs more compression/leakdown test. rule out the engine, then rebuild the turbo.

i/c is likely full of oil.

you tap it from the bottom, right under the a/c.. There's a ton of threads on here about where and how to tap it.

id love to give you a leakdown test..but i have no idea how to do a leakdown or compression. The exhaust manifold is warped so im pulling that off again and having it ground down During that time i can check the turbo and re route the oil line.

without specialty tools, the easiest test i can think of, ruling out the turbo, is removing the oil feed and idling.

the turbine is barely spinning at idle, and not having oil passing through it wont damage it for a few minutes of idling. the residue is enough. make sure to plug the feed so you don't spray oil a few feet through the air.

with that said, if it still smokes after giving it a chance to burn off the oil, suspect the engine itself is throwing the oil through the exhaust and not the turbo.

the fact is, if he had a severely blocked oil supply, all of his intercooler piping and the intercooler it self is full of oil.

On a xB we had issues with... just driving around the block a couple times, we managed to fill the intercooler with over 16 ozs of oil, and of course all the piping had a oily film inside it... etc etc.


Removing the oil supply line sounds like a terrible idea for the turbo.

it wont hurt idling. Hell, he can remove the intake and still idle the car with the AFM unplugged and hold the wheel and prevent it from spinning.

true about the pipes, but ive done the same, and after idling a few minutes the smoke resided.

whatever, im just trying to find creative ways to rule one or the other out really fast. no point pulling and rebuilding a turbo and reinstalling it if the rings are dead.

if you need your turbo rebuilt let me know PM me i have some guys here almost locally that do an amazing job. maybe they can help you out. I got my super 60 done there and they give you one year warranty on the turbo and parts after the rebuild.

on another note if you just rebuilt the turbo yourself and changed the seals, you should be running normal engine oil for the first 3000 miles. The synthetic oil is too thin for the fresh seals and they can not seal correctly. i had this problem and just changing the oil to 10w30 did it for me. remember i had the turbo professionally rebuilt and it was still smoking with synthetic oil in it. brake the turbo in with normal motor oil. that can be one suggestion.

i also have a home made kit and it works perfectly fine. keep building them.

turbo "seals" are not seals. they are typically a thin c-ring. it's the pressure differentals that acutally prevent leakage and why too much oil pressure causes them to leak.

Buying a $20 compression tester from AZ would be pretty fast. ;)

ok so..
Re-route the oil line somehow onto the turbo side of pan.
Change oil to 10w30
Buy a cheap compression tester(which I have no idea how to use)

Sound like a good start?

ok so i just read up on how to do it. it looks easy. The only thing is, how important is it to drive it hard for a bit then do the test? Right now the problem is lots of smoke(maybe another fire). Stuff that makes me barely want to idle the car, def not drive it.

ok
Was the engine smoking prior to the turbo?
can you take a picture of your oil return? it has to have a slight slope to it, it can not go straight down and than curve. did you change all the seals in the turbo? I do understand that they are metal C rings but they still need thicker oil to get some buildup around the seals so they don't leak. trust me i know this for sure i had a problem similar to this.

dont drive it hard, idle it for 10 minutes. dirving hard is the last thing you ever want to do right now....

no there was no smoking, and I even drove the car a little while before the fire which was also before the fire. I then changed the seal bolted everything back and drove it for a 2 days with no smoke or maybe just a few wisps. But not almost as soon as I start it there are plooms of smoke coming out if ther eare any revs higher then idle.

Dude i hate to say it but it sounds like rings to me, if there really is that much smoke- white smoke like you say than that is not oil burning, its coolant and that usually indicates bad rings/head gasket.

Easy way to find out is to make the first thing on your list to do a compression/leakdown test. If it is fucked than you can start searching for a new motor/rebuild this one.

Gl

had very similar problem. thought the turbo seals may just be leaking but did a compression test to find 190 190 90 185. tore the engine down an found that on one edge of piston number 3 was worn down badly could see rings with piston still in block took piston out an part of piston between rings fell out. so im currently in the process of an engine rebuild. bought the car turboed from a 60 year old man that owned it the entire life of the car. bought it in 1990 put the turbo on in 1994 an i got it about 4 months ago the went out on me. the car only had original 47000 miles. any idea why this happend? the turbo set up is a cartech system with old school FMu. has large intercooler, stock internals, port an polished head, ihi really small turbo but does the job well, dyno'd at 249hp an 225tq. last dyno run was 179hp 150tq should have rebuild done by end of month thank god i work in a shop whould never get things done as fast if i didnt.