Boost solenoid Position With Manaul Boost Controller
 

My turbo doesnt have a vacuum pipe going from the compressor to the actuator so instead I have had to take a line from the vacuum source on the inlet manifold.

Where do I need to position the boost solenoid as I have a manual boost controller between the actuator and the inlet vacuum source.

Does it go after the Manual boost controller but before the actuator so it picks the boost up when the Manual boost controller has increased the boost as it reads the boost going through the turbo?

Or does it go after the Manual boost controller between that and the inlet source so it detects the boost before the controller has increased it?

Or an Other area?

Thanks
Andy

It should basically go where your manual boost controller is now (in between the line that actuates the wastegate. Basically it's just a valve that will open and let pressure go through once it reaches a certain threshold. On another note, you need to take your wastegate signal before the throttle body.

are you saying you want to run both MBC and EBC?

+1

Dustin is right. Do not take the wastegate actuator signal from the intake manifold. Take it somewhere between the intercooler and the throttle body.

Why do you want to run both a manual and an electronic boost controller? Why not just the electronic one?

OK I may have made a mistake!:confused:
I have gone and bought a manual boost controller as a means to increase the boost upto 14-15 psi. Dont tell me I have wasted my time as the EBC does that for me?

If so does it go between the actuator and the inlet manifold as thats where I have had to take the pipe to?
Also how does it increase the boost via the MS tuning software?

Thanks for your patience believe me I feel dumb!

BC = Boost controller.

M= Manual
E= Electronic

just a means to the end.

Where can I take the pipe from then?
There is nowhere to 'T' off. I was told to take it from the pipe on the top of the inlet manifold. I could take it from the line where the fuel pressure regulator is at the back left of the engine bay? I already have my ECU piped into that as instructed.

Or can you suggest where to pipe it?

I would just drill and tap the compressor housing and screw a fitting in there.
Put loads of grease on the tap (and the drill) and start the car with the boost pipe removed for the first time.

Doesn't mean I'm right though :)

i wouldn't. leave it where it is...

You must add a small fitting for the little hose. You need to take the signal from there. If there was another location that would be easier and work properly I would tell you so. I would suggest that with your limited technical experience it might be preferable for you to use the manual boost controller.

What is your air fuel ratio in boost currently? And how many pounds of boost?

just leave the boost signal at the IM...

I will do thanks. Is there any good or negative reasons to take it from there? I know quite a few turbos have the pipe on the compressor housing.

see Joe Perez's boost drop thread.

Just less chance of any leaks with a direct route...
But yes I think it will be fine where it is.
I wouldn't even use the EBC due to fear of it breaking....
Maybe I just think too much :)

I havent got the car running yet. Im just installing things. But as I solve one problem I create 3 more:giggle:.

Its almost finished now just the boost controller, heater matrix pipe and a downpipe to buy (Which im arranging with Abe) then I can get it started and see how it runs.

You have had it running before though ?

if not I would leave it at the standard boost for a bit.

Ok so after 5 pages of informative reading the consensus is that taking the feed from point 'B' is the best point.
That does create a few issues for me as I could only really do that from the pipe I have added just before the throttle body but that already has my BOV, AIT sensor, and idle valve pipe welded into it. So adding another pipe for that would be too congested.

I have a stainless steel 90 degree bend which comes out the TB side of the intercooler which I could tap and I suppose from what was said that should be fine.

2 things off topic.

1st the BOV feed. Brain you said to take the feed for this before the TB? Someone replied after that to say take it from after the TB. Is it ok to take it after?

2nd I dropped my AIT sesnor and smashed the white plastic around the sensor. But the sensor itself looks ok. Can it still be used as its exposed and not protected? I picked off all the white plastic so none could go into the engine.

No never had it running yet. Im still fitting my parts and making sure I get it right before I start it up. Im going straight upto around 12-15 psi but believe me I will be taking it easy and trying to fine tune the fueling etc to make it a reliable car.

BOV should be after TB but as close as possible
the IAT is just a thermistor (temperature variable resistor) So should be fine.

I suppose technically point b would make sense but what if you get a leak or a boost pipe comes loose ?? wouldn't the car just keep boosting till it went bang?
(Kind of) :)

I would rather loose a bit of boost and be reliable I don't use mine for racing but I do use it for long jouneys :)

I think you will be surprised at the gains you get from just 6psi compared to standard :)

At that psi anything going wrong will happen sooner so double check everything and drive it straight to a rolling road at 40MPH :)

LOL. Im alittle worried about it blowing but getting them rolling roaded in the UK ive been told is a problem due to me having a MS fitted as there are not many people here who will tune MS on a rolling road. I was going to aim for somewhere near to the 250bhp limit but aim for the reliable side of that figure

There is nothing reliable about going straight to 15psi. You really are going to blow your engine in the first 15 minutes. That was what Dean was trying to tell you and what I am telling you.

People on this forum with years of experience tuning don't do it that way. They tune the idle, then the low rpm cells, then the cruise cells, then the atmospheric cells, then the low boost (non-boost controller cells), then gradually do all of the cells above that adding one or two psi at a time.

If you take an untuned car into 12psi you will blow it up. You just will. But go ahead.

I appreciate your experience and take it all onboard as no doubt you know far more than me. I just thought that you would have set the boost and then tuned around that. I had my ECU set up wth base map etc by Brain so I know I will have a bit of tuning but as I dont have it running im not able to see the MS software to see how it all works yet.

I thought the settings for fuelling and air etc wold be completly diferent if you run 6psi to 15psi?

If so arnt you just setting up the software twice. Like double handling?

Isnt it better to pick the boost you want to run and then set up the car to that or as you said is it a case that you have to start at low boost set up the maps then increase and adjust then increase further?

They are completely different, but for the sake of your engine, it's far FAR safer, and far FAR easier on your sanity to take baby steps as previously mentioned.

1st get the car running
Then tune so the car will idle and drive, stop & go etc etc
Then edge into boost a bit
Slowly add more boost (with more right foot) until you're happy with the fuelling and that you're getting no detonation.
(the baove is like an hours worth of tuning to get it 85-90% of the way there).

Drive it like that and be happy for a month or so, work all the kinks out etc etc

THEN up the boost.

To do it all in one big bang is asking for fail (and a big bang of a different kind). Plus when you do have an issue, you'll be chasing your tail trying to figure out what the hell is wrong - wheras if you'd done it a bit at a time, you'll know it was the last bit you changed that caused the problems.

A base tune is a rough approximation that probably won't even idle properly on your car without adjustments, much less run well in every other parameter. Every one of our cars is different than the one on which the base tune was created. And every bit of our turbo component list will be different with dissimilar efficiencies and flow characteristics. The base tune is primarily designed to give you an opportunity to crank and run well enough to allow you to start tuning, because you can't tune a car that doesn't run at all.

Your tuning needs to be a gradual process. Stomping on the throttle at any given rpm will not immediately take you to your target boost, but rather through all of the pressures up to your target: 2 psi, 3, 4...7...9...etc. You will then end up at your boost peak. It is a gradual rise. There are good reasons why you should tune with no boost initially then gradually tune all cells in boost a couple of psi at a time. Tuning the vacuum and low boost cells will teach you what your car needs and alert you to any problems before continuing to the danger zone. It is entirely possible to blow up your engine with 8 psi and a 10% error in tuning. The learning curve is much less expensive at 4 psi and therefore a much better place to practice and gain experience. Additionally, since your engine must transition through the lower pressure tuning cells on its way up to the higher pressure cells, the quality of tune in the low pressure cells will determine how quickly and smoothly your car will transition to higher pressure levels. Bad tuning in vacuum and low pressure cells will make your car much slower, rougher running, and much less fun to drive.

If you have read much of the advice given to noobs on this forum you will see a common thread of advice to add your Megasquirt and tune your car for a while before adding the turbo to your engine. This allows the user to become familiar with the Megasquirt and gain some proficiency in its manipulation. It also allows him to spend quality time tuning idle and cruise cells for optimum drivability.

Piston rings are brittle and fracture easily with a rubbish tune. They are not fun or cheap to replace and I don't want to see you with a trashed engine. Start slow and save yourself the pain. Our engines make about 100whp without a turbo. Gradually tuning in 50%, 60%, 80% 100% more power will be fun enough. Trust me.

Plan on road and idle tuning taking hours and hours, but it will be interesting and fun if you don't break anything.

Thanks I did read the threads and I chose not to add the MS first as I wanted to get the turbo and all equipment on. However I will respect your advice and do as you said. Like I said it was my noobiness that made me want to jump straight to my target boost it was what I believed you did that why. Now I know that you start small and then increase and now I know why. I will do the same.

I think it is enthusiasm, exuberance, and excitement...and those are wonderful feelings to have about a project. It gets worse as you get really close to finishing putting it all together. Good luck with the build.

It happens all the time. People get all excited and throw all the parts on and then never really get the tuning part down. I don't know how many cars I've seen for sale that "just need tuned."

I have to be truthful and say im alittle worried about the tuning I will be honest.
But I do have a while to try as I dont plan on using it much at all during the winter.

I can imagine it will frustrate me when I start as I have never done it before and it is hard not to just ask question after question on a place like this. Which people dont think highly off so self teaching seems to be the hardest but only real way.

Bring on the fun (If I ever get a manifold and downpipe sorted)!