BOV location with AFM
 

So far the BOV is located between the TB and the AFM and car is running fine. :crx:

I have had several discussions and some agree and others dont, where is the best location...


TB/BOV/AFM or TB/AFM/BOV? :vash:

what!?

The only thing the bov does is let out pressure after you let the throttle out.

The wastegat controls boost.

Therefore the bov has to be between the afm and tb.

And the wastegate is to be in the exhaust mani or exhaust side of turbo.

so much fail:facepalm:

ok, thanks
 

I asked

TB Throttle Body

AFM Air FLow Meter

BOV Blow Off Valve


Todd, I got it exactly like you said, right now at 10 psi with 10@1 pistons, 550cc, ghetto fuel management by the latest and greatest Apexi SAFC and adjusting flap on the RX-7 T-II AFM, 93 octane. The local auto shop does not have NGK6 or 7 so I have been running it with 210 of compression w/ NGK 5. The engine has a few other bolt ons from when it was all motor.

My wideband decided to expire a week after purchasing it, so now I am driving on the rich side.

I ask about the BOV location because some people say it must be in front of the AFM, others in front of the TB. I prefer in front of the TB, it does not hurt to ask, thanks for the responses.


Waiting now for the forged rods as I could tell the T3/T4 can easily hit 15 to 20 psi, with the stock rods no more than 10 for now and waiting for the wideband to come back from warranty. I have to play with the throttle or the car will be spinning from 1st to 3rd if going pedal to the metal, its like driving a totally different car, amazing feeling as long as the engine does not blow up, LOL!

This has been discussed before. But intake mani - AFM - BOV This in theory should work and works with the msp. If you MS it you wont need to worry about that AFM ;)

My AFM is after the intercooler

TB/BOV/AFM/FMIC

By placing the AFM after the intercooler it is reading boosted air (temps) compared to before the turbo (ambient), although my question was not about that, thanks anyway.

I dont see how you could possibly do a blow through AFM without any MAP compesation. The stock pressure sensor is designed only for reading changes it atmospheric pressure, the ECU has no idea what to make of boost.

Also, I cannot beleive you are using an apexi, do you have any idea what it actually does? by "tuning" in the fuel with the apexi you are also changing the timing, so when you tell it to pull fuel in order to run bigger injectors youre also dramatically increasing ignition advance, which is an awesome way to blow your engine up.

But you obviously know exactly what youre doing. 10 PSI on a T3/T04, thats just like 10 PSI on a GT2554, right? Oh, and you dont have a wideband on the car? yah those things are overrated anyway.

Im just going to wait for the pictures of melted pistons youll be posting pretty soon.

Also waiting for melted pistons thread followed by part out....built motor and a ghetto timing/fuel setup?

Here for the lawl's

I imagine the so called "tune" that you had to put on the afc to get the car to not flood from the double sized injectors you have without a proper ecu fuel multiplier adjustment is making your timing map waaaaaaaay off.

But then again there really isn't any science involved in tuning because the real thing that makes a engine run properly ...

...well ..
..
http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/a.../its_magic.jpg

ROFL :laugh:

So where is the part out thread? Or should I wait a few more days?

LOL, got to love it...

FYI: On the first few days I ran the turbo with 87 octane and did many 10 psi passes during the night and then the next day here in Florida, so it was very warm weather.

Yes it is magic, all I have to say it revs hard like a MOFO from 4000 to 7000 at 10 psi, strong strong, I cannot explain, its as if the car is been hit from behind by a train once the turbo kicks in. I paid close attention how quickly it would rev (burning of fuel) and what point it would be more or less and from there adjust the SAFC. There was some misfiring the other night because of too much fuel and loss of power when I went 93 octane so I had to pull fuel instead of adding on the mid-range.

I have driven the car like that for the past week boosting it at 10 psi strong, no engine knocking, feels with plenty of power and I know I can get more but as I said waiting for the Wideband to get back.

In fact I decided one day to see how much it does, went a little richer with the SAFC and raised boost to 12 psi and ran without any knocking, smooth controllable power at the top end. Went again and did another few passes at 15 psi, once there its another different world. Those 15 psi made the 10 feel like nothing, its incredible how much difference 5 pounds make on that range.

Timing map, pressure sensor, etc etc bla bla... When I drive it all I pay attention is how is the power transition, how the engine revs under load? is it quick? takes some time?
Right now it drives exactly as if it was naturally aspirated. A friend jumped in and he stated the same thing, and started complaining the turbo could not be felt at all and asked if he was going to tell when the turbo kicked in, LOL. Oh man, did I laugh... Yeah, "You will".

Engine goes out of vacuum, accelerates smoothly and when 3500 to 4000 are reached the pull is evident, depending how aggresive I go on the throttle I can make the tires loose traction even at 6000 rpms. I shift to the next gear, minimal turbo lag, smooth power band all the way to maybe 7000 (redline on mine is 7500), no engine knocking, stuttering, misfiring...


I ran the car at 10 psi with 87 and nothing happened with NGK5, so I knew that with 93 octane it would be running fine, just minor tweaking with the SAFC. Yes, I pull fuel instead of adding.

P51 we could meet up some day as I live in Jacksonville, not too far from St. Augustine and laugh a little bit more, ROFL! In fact I will bring my camera and take a video and post it here so everyone can laugh at me parting you out, LOL!

OHH we might "rofl" and here is the thing, the only thing you'll be remembering is the cold damp darkness of an alligators asshole......
:hahano: :fawk:

Thats going to be sweet! Cant Wait...

omg...

omg!

OMG!

OMG WTF!?!?

...




:facepalm:

Full TIlt, lets meet and see your setup as well, you live in Jacksonville, who knows we can be BFF, LOL! OMG Cant wait, love Miataturbo.net , better than EatdaHaminme.com

Hustler? Is that you?

lol

Man, I know you think you got this down and everything... and that you know what your doing.. but I can tell you this is so far from reality.

Can you please for judgment of your knowledge here -

1. Explain to me what a safc physically and honestly does to your car? Dont try and google it.

2. When you do have a wideband what should it read at lets say 4-8 psi on a engine with 9.1.1 compression, with a mid sized turbo under full load in lets say 4th gear ( guessing its 1.1 ratio on your tranny )?

First from a person that has tuned way more cars with real management systems than you have probably ever driven ...

10 psi on a safc is not something id ever do and feel safe about.. much less 15...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazpr View Post
There was some misfiring the other night because of too much fuel and loss of power when I went 93 octane so I had to pull fuel instead of adding on the mid-range.

Timing map, pressure sensor, etc etc bla bla... When I drive it all I pay attention is how is the power transition, how the engine revs under load? is it quick? takes some time?

This ^ kind of post as well as many others Full tilt highlighted make anyone with seasoned knowledge of engine management instantly facepalm.

Please stop beating on your car until things are setup properly before you destroy your engine.

Also altho the airflow meter does technically measure air temps in some circumstances..

Its job is to measure air Flow As in the amount of air entering your air system. A stock n/a ecu is not supposed to be in the positive pressure section of your air piping.

Not temps like i can understand some people might be confused. You have a Intake air temp probe that does this

The misfiring was because it was running way too rich, excessive fuel not been burned, when it reaches the exhaust and high temps on the pipe it ignites like a potato bazooka, LOL. Real quick I removed fuel around 4000 to 5000 rpm range, lowered a few pounds fuel pressure and went for a few more passes, no more back-firing. The car lowers revs without any hesitation, as if it was naturally aspirated, idle is smooth and mean, almost like a growling sound LOL. I have 2.5 downpipe, no cat or resonator all the way to a straight magna-flow muffler. Nothing flashy to call the cops. Wastegate is opened to the atmosphere well routed for minimal heat on engine bay. Car always runs cold and never goes above half temps, thermostat removed.

Car has no A/C, manual power steering, lightened flywheel, titanium pulley, adjustable cam gears and few other toys... Polyurethane engine mounts and sway bar bushings, B+G springs with KYB struts, front and rear upper strut bars...

Do not worry, the vehicle is on towers right now, as I disconnected the Wideband for stupid warranty. So I am checking the suspension, bushings, wiring, etc while I wait for it to come back.

Yes, I know what the SAFC does, I have also a pressure I need to connect as well. The wideband put eveyrthing else on hold, after I worked my ashs off installing it that POS decided to stop working out of the blue. Trust me I did all the calibration , grounding source, led, ground switch as stated, O2 location etc etc. Of all things that was the one I did make sure to work fine...

I have also a E-Manage, but the laptop deal pisses me off of having to use there own interface and going back ten years on a computer because of a serial port. The SAFC is so practical so for now I will stay with the Apexi.

I know the engineers at Mazda are more intelligent than me and designed the AFM to be before the turbo and not to be pressurized. All I have to say I am not the first one who has done similar setup. Know friends who are running it the same way for years without any problems.

I want pics



Also,
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Check this out it will solve your compatibility problem.

USB to RS232 Serial 9 Pin DB9 Cable Adapter PC/Mac/GPS - eBay (item 250528530077 end time Nov-11-09 12:15:02 PST)

buy this and throw the safc in the garbage.

Blow up yet?

EDIT:
Also, I want pics of the car. Because frankly I think youre full of shit.

wtf?

I forgot I had two accounts on miataturbo, so let me stick with the original one.

Its magic that it hasnt blown up yet.
you gotta ditch that safc and put a real tune on it.

Its Magic
 

Attachment 202113


Attachment 202114

Attachment 202115

Attachment 202116
Walbro fuel pump (for Miata), I had to change a little the mount to make it fit.

Just to let you know it is on a Mazda 323, everything else is the same. In fact the SAFC settings are from a Miata diagram, only difference is making the changes for RX7 flap sensor.

It has Miata 10@1 cast pistons, all internals besides the pistons swap are stock.

I know the wiring is a mess, I just wanted to install the turbo before working anymore on the car.
If it did not work I was done with the car, but fortunately it is 2nd of december and engine running strong, I am having fun with STis, EVOs, Mustangs and even Infiniti G35s.

This was some of the muck up shots:

Attachment 202117

Attachment 202118

Attachment 202119

Attachment 202120

Attachment 202121

At the time I was using a Power Steering canister as a Oil Catch Can, once I saw the turbo run fine, my morale went up and decided go ahead and install a Greddy catch a can (although any EBAy will work, mine was given to me by a friend). The adjustable cam gears are OBX for Miata, I swapped all the aluminum cheap bolts for black stronger ones.


And yes, it is magic!

My bad Full tilt boogie it got reposted, long time ago I forgot I had the other account, that is why I posted with the correct one. In other forums the mazpr name has been used and psi is the one I use.

I will stick with the SAFC, works perfect, car runs strong, no engine knocking ( I have the autospeed DIY knock sound amplifier) the Whistle 2000, and that DIY does work. Laugh all you want, I tune with that and is a breeze.

http://us1.webpublications.com.au/st...3/0353_8mg.jpg

The gig cost me plus / minus 30 or so dollars. Its incredible how I can spot the minimum amount of engine knock and still works at full boost with open wastegate.

Detonation Part 1


Detonation Part 2

There is no convincing you, so w/e

Running 15 psi, on a stock 10:1 CR bottom end, with a T3/T04, and a SAFC is one of the most insane things I have ever heard. You would be better off with an FMU than a SAFC.

Hmm this all sounds very interesting :facepalm: I say all the guys in jax meet up and check this car out. mazpr what part of town do you live at?

Lets rephrase it, where are you from?

Thatz madz JDMz yoz!!!!

I live in the beaches. I do think a little meet would be cool, I never see nodded miatas around town

Installed the wideband today, the settings done with the whisttle 2000 were very close to correct air fuel ratio as displayed on the Innovate wideband.

At full boost, around 8 to 10 on 210 compression cast pistons (Miata 10@1) it displayed 12 and sometimes 12.5. So the settings I did by looking at spark plugs, listening to knock with the sound amplifier were right on the spot, and it is just Magic.

Wow, congratulations of having proper AFRs, but that is not the point, the point is that the SAFC is not controlling JUST fuel, its just modifying the damn AFM reading, so although you're AFRs are okay, you have no idea what is happening with the timing, and you have no control over it.
Its just dumb...

Unfortunately there will be no part out for you, I am such a party pooper!

http://www.moenantikvariat.dk/Lidtfo...%B8g/farts.jpg

I'm not sure if someone answered his question already I might have missed it. Why is it bad for the BOV to be before the AFM? My BOV is on the hot side of the IC pipe and the AFM is on the cold side.

Because all the air being read by the AFM is going to dump through the BOV after it has been read and the car will go pig rich.

so wait, youre running a blow-through AFM too? wtf...

So the BOV needs to be before the AFM right? That's how the setup was when I got and haven't saw the need to change it

Here is how it should go.
Air filter, AFM, Turbo, intercooler, BOV, Throttle
and the outlet of the BOV should vent into the intake pipe for the turbo AFTER the AFM, and BEFORE the turbo.
Apparently, you and mazpr are running blow-through AFMs, which makes no sense...

Ok I gotcha. The PO had it run like that and I haven't had any issues so far so I'll leave it that way

What does it have for engine management?

Working on getting a haltech in it. I've heard good things about them for it being old

so what do you have now? nothing?

Perty much but I almost never drive the car for this reason and figured I'd take the motor out for a rebuild before I put the standalone on it

Toyota Paseo
Mazda 626 ECU
Mazda 323 wiring harness
Turbo II injectors
MPV AFM
1.5 engine
stock rods
Suzuki cast pistons

300 HP, 25 psi on pump gas

No Megasquirt or any standalone system'

Make a note, the AFM from an MPV is pressurized, no problem last I heard running 30 psi after the build.

Attachment 202073

Attachment 202074

Attachment 202075

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsAZRd819DE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvUQznycb7k

If the last video seems too long at the beginning, at least start from 2:40 where he is running against a Hayabusa.

Embeding the videos did not work, so I posted the links.

FYI: Car is not mine